3 Needed Guardian Changes

Druid
I just want Rage and Infected wounds back.

The affinity row is useless, i think they should rework it for all specs and instead of letting you use spells it augments all spells in some way. Such as in Bear with Feral all your skills now leave a bleed, or moonfire also casts sunfire for moonkin. I think it would be a neat affect if they could cause it to be beneficial for all specs to take any affinity. The shapeshifting aspect of the class is pretty much dead since we lost vanilla trees allowing hybrids so it should allow some sort of augmentation to our forms instead of a really weak version of the base skills.
I would love to have some version of Legion's moon/star bear and frenzied regen back. I really enjoyed that playstyle and the self sustain it added. Adding back some kite-ability would be excellent too. I still think magic damage often hits us bears a bit too hard and makes certain m+ dungeons and raid bosses extremely difficult to manage. Having some more health regen would help with that, but I occasionally find myself in a few situations where I take a lot of magic damage pretty quickly without a way to manage it. The 4% damage reduction from moonfired targets + frenzied regen off gcd might be just barely enough to make that feel less bad.
I think they should bring Rage of the Sleeper back, complete with 25% leech, large damage reflect, and CC immunity.

I'd also like to see at least one ability of the guardian's chosen affinity usable in bear form, like rip (with a rage cost or CD) for feral aff., sunfire for balance aff., or regrowths (instant-cast and free via using a gore proc) for resto aff.
At least that way the guardian will get more benefit out of it than just the passive 15% move speed / 3% HP/5s / +3 yard ability range.
Agreed with FR doing its old heal, however I don’t think lunar beam is the problem, it’s just completely undertuned, it needs to be as potent as bone shield is for DKs or swapped with a return of rage of the sleeper.

I also think we need more hit points and armour to be truly competitive.

I hate the state we’re in... ugh.
Started tanking on a DH alt and holy carp is it night and day. Even with significantly less gear (as in just got to 120 last night) it feel so much easier and more robust. The self healing is through the roof but they actually feel like they can take more punishment as well since the traits actually WORK for tanking. I still haven't found much to help as a druid tank. And not even going to start on mobility.

To be honest I have tried tanking on Monk, Pally and now DH alts and all feel easier than my very well geared druid. I don't have the gear to stack mastery very high though and can't help feel THAT is what would help. I think it is a case of ideal scenario gear-wise you CAN tank as a druid, but why would you if you had the choice while it is in it's current state.
Just hit 120 on this druid
Last week and did my first +10 and made time with ease with a pug today. didn’t feel squishy and was even using my rage on maul instead of IF at times.
11/08/2018 05:29 PMPosted by Mooing
Just hit 120 on this druid
Last week and did my first +10 and made time with ease with a pug today. didn’t feel squishy and was even using my rage on maul instead of IF at times.


Motherlode is by far the easiest dungeon in BfA, try doing that on a Kings Rest or Shrine of the Storms.
11/08/2018 05:29 PMPosted by Mooing
Just hit 120 on this druid
Last week and did my first +10 and made time with ease with a pug today. didn’t feel squishy and was even using my rage on maul instead of IF at times.


You got carried. Everyone else in your group was 374 to 378.

Heck that rogue in your group probably did 15k to 18k dps. I could time a lot of stuff if the trash melts before my barkskin expires.
11/09/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Kozuk
11/08/2018 05:29 PMPosted by Mooing
Just hit 120 on this druid
Last week and did my first +10 and made time with ease with a pug today. didn’t feel squishy and was even using my rage on maul instead of IF at times.


Motherlode is by far the easiest dungeon in BfA, try doing that on a Kings Rest or Shrine of the Storms.


Already timed both of those just not on a +10 yet but timed a +10 Atal Dazar today. Chances are I’m going to time a +11 Tol Dagor tomorrow. And this is from someone who’s never played a tank before and hit 120 less then 2 weeks ago. im sure once I get to +12 I’ll hit a wall since I’m
Not ilvl 370 but guardians are fine
11/09/2018 02:50 PMPosted by Syp
11/08/2018 05:29 PMPosted by Mooing
Just hit 120 on this druid
Last week and did my first +10 and made time with ease with a pug today. didn’t feel squishy and was even using my rage on maul instead of IF at times.


You got carried. Everyone else in your group was 374 to 378.

Heck that rogue in your group probably did 15k to 18k dps. I could time a lot of stuff if the trash melts before my barkskin expires.


How can a tank get carried? If I mess up a pull and wipe the group we’re not making time. If I don’t use mitigation or don’t follow a mechanic and die then It’s a wipe. I don’t see your logic.
11/09/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Mooing

How can a tank get carried? If I mess up a pull and wipe the group we’re not making time. If I don’t use mitigation or don’t follow a mechanic and die then It’s a wipe. I don’t see your logic.


Run a motherload +10 with 3 dps and a healer who are your ilvl (around 362 with 350ish neck) and you will get an idea of how even a tank can get carried when running with Mythic geared 378s.
I've run plenty of dungeons with 380's who couldnt even pull 10k ST dps. Ilvl doesnt make a player good. but maybe you think it does.

Have you ever seen groups selling +10's in trade chat? How many of them would let the carry tank it? Same with selling Uldir Heroic clears. Think even 1 guild would let you come and tank when your the carry?
11/10/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Mooing
I've run plenty of dungeons with 380's who couldnt even pull 10k ST dps. Ilvl doesnt make a player good. but maybe you think it does.

Have you ever seen groups selling +10's in trade chat? How many of them would let the carry tank it? Same with selling Uldir Heroic clears. Think even 1 guild would let you come and tank when your the carry?


ilvl doesn't make a player good but lack of ilvl can make a good player struggle.

Motherload might be a bad example since almost everything there is easy, heck I even pop out of bear often and heal others at certain times.

BFA is really about bringing the class first, person second, gear third. Guardian struggles more than most tanks, it is not really up for debate.
I'd like to see the following changes:

Talents
1.) Lunar Beam replaced by Ursoc's Blessing, Druid receives 40% magic damage
reduction for 6 seconds, 2 min CD.

2.) Resto Affinity
    Remove Corruption is now cast-able in-form.
    Improved FR (per OP's suggestion).

3.) Balance Affinity
    Galactic Guardian returns!
    Lunar Beam moved here and changed to a target-able AOE, 15 yard radius, 30 yard range.

4.) Feral Affinity
    Infected Caress returns!
    Melee attack range increased to 10 yards.


New Ability
    Savage Guardian, 10 sec buff, 45 sec cd - Druid's mastery is doubled for duration.
I agree ML is easy for us bears, I don’t think any of the dungeons are difficult other then shrine if you don’t have an interrupt order on some trash.

We only struggle to magic dmg but if you manage your CD’s right you’ll haven barskin and SI ready for it.

Are we one of the weakest tanks? Maybe but the gap isn’t large and we can complete all content our currently
11/10/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Mooing

Are we one of the weakest tanks? Maybe but the gap isn’t large and we can complete all content our currently


The gap isn't large until you get to higher level keys. That is, if you're trying to run a key over 15/16 then you might face some challenges.

Check out some of the completed keys for the tank leaderboards on raider.io:

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/world/leaderboards-character/druid/tank

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/world/leaderboards-character/death-knight/tank

For druids, many the top 20 keys are +15 and lower. A good number of death knights have completed keys in the 17-19 range. A BDK tanked the world first +21 AD this week. Everyone else is somewhere in between.

Does that mean druids are bad? Nah. They have plenty of strengths and good qualities, just not as many as a DK, DH, or monk. The majority of the players won't attempt keys over 15. Some tanks are seeing changes in 8.1 to bring them in line with the others, so only time will tell. I enjoy my bear thoroughly and will try to push as far as I can go :) Even the tough dungeons can be made less painful with a good knowledge of your group's toolkit.
agreed ^
11/08/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Atromedes
Started tanking on a DH alt and holy carp is it night and day. Even with significantly less gear (as in just got to 120 last night) it feel so much easier and more robust. The self healing is through the roof but they actually feel like they can take more punishment as well since the traits actually WORK for tanking.


agreed.

fracture+soul bomb = more than a bear can do in healing and dmg...and no real cooldown restraint.
like FR
and a nice 30sec cd shield talent.

Bears are capable, but once you compare the tanks side by side you see the issues bears and warriors encounter.
A lot of good discussion going on here.

An easy fix our damage and threat problems would be to revert our mastery back to a base of 16% like it was till the last week in WoD when Blizz stealth nerfed it. That might be going a bit too far but with the stat squish and the fact we get way less secondary stats now it may be fine.
11/11/2018 07:32 AMPosted by Lockedheart
11/08/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Atromedes
Started tanking on a DH alt and holy carp is it night and day. Even with significantly less gear (as in just got to 120 last night) it feel so much easier and more robust. The self healing is through the roof but they actually feel like they can take more punishment as well since the traits actually WORK for tanking.


agreed.

fracture+soul bomb = more than a bear can do in healing and dmg...and no real cooldown restraint.
like FR
and a nice 30sec cd shield talent.

Bears are capable, but once you compare the tanks side by side you see the issues bears and warriors encounter.


DH has way more mobility then guardians, have a ranged silence which druids don't have...have on demand healing via soul cleave and soulbomb without having to wait for frenzied regeneration, have a snare for kiting which druids don't have for M+, have Meta for big pulls, and deal more damage then guardians. Your guys's niche use to be huge health pools but you dont even have that compared to other tanks now. But hey atleast with the druid you get to be a bear.

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