[War Campaign spoilers] Something seems off

Story Forum
11/09/2018 05:22 AMPosted by Fransizka
On the subject of the San'layn that Sylvanas had apparently employed for the Alliance war campaign... Why does the Horde never hear about, or even see these guys? Since they were apparently a big enough deal for the Alliance to target them specifically, you'd think they'd know about them being amongst their ranks, even for just a little bit. And their loss seems a big enough blow you'd hear someone talking about it...

Like, honestly, what gives?


They split the story team into two. One for the Alliance and one for the Horde. This was a mistake cause now we are seeing continuity errors when the story is put together.
11/09/2018 09:06 AMPosted by Arazlok
Talking about filler the majority of the Hordes questing is complete made irrelevant in 8.1.


To be honest, this is actually one of the most frustrating parts of 8.1 for me. I know we talk about player agency and how there isn't always room for a ton of it in WoW, but to me, doing a bunch of quests that are specifically highlighted and designed for your faction, only to have those quests amount to literally nothing, really feels bad. It almost gives me the feeling like - well, why bother doing the war campaign if we're not even pursuing war goals, and the one thing we manage to stumble upon by accident is reversed immediately before we can even use it?

Like, if the Alliance needed the Tide Scepter for their assault, and the writers knew this, why even have the Horde steal it in the first place if literally nothing came as a result of it?
11/09/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Ayaani
You just wanted to shoehorn in your pointless little insult hm?

Who hurt you?

A large amount of alliance poster such as ivalesse, zerde, akiyass...

Basicly there are plenty of alliance posters that fall into the whiney catagory, not everyone (Grandblade is probably the most level headed poster on the forum, and hanashi is just so optimistc) but enough that horde posters are tired of.

Having people say that the story you utterly despise is bias towards your faction also tends to piss people off, as does blaming the players for something they had no control over narratively.

Basicly it amounts to a large amount of alliance posters not seeing the hordes complaints as valid, similar to there are horde posters who do the same thing to alliance complaints.

We really should stop this crying game and start acknowledging both stories suck
11/09/2018 06:24 AMPosted by Dalfurane
Zuldazar is a Horde city? Where does it say? Is this one of those arguments where you state Legion is Alliance because Highmountain and Suramar were not Horde cities YET but suddenly before the Zandalari troll race is even released you claim the city immediately?

So you actually need the difference explained to you? Horde and Alliance both quested in Suramar and Highmountain. No faction influence on either side. You can go hang out on any toon you want and you won't get attacked by NPCs. Nobody knew that Highmountain or Suramar was taking a side until BFA was announced. Also, all of the spotlight and character development that happened in Legion was completely and overwhelming Alliance focused. Don't even start.

With Zuldazar and Boralus, we KNOW those zones are faction zones. They were built that way. Just because they haven't officially allied with the factions *yet* does not make them even close to Highmountain or Suramar. Which Alliance characters can still go to, by the way.
11/09/2018 04:20 PMPosted by Ralanthel
11/09/2018 06:24 AMPosted by Dalfurane
Zuldazar is a Horde city? Where does it say? Is this one of those arguments where you state Legion is Alliance because Highmountain and Suramar were not Horde cities YET but suddenly before the Zandalari troll race is even released you claim the city immediately?

So you actually need the difference explained to you? Horde and Alliance both quested in Suramar and Highmountain. No faction influence on either side. You can go hang out on any toon you want and you won't get attacked by NPCs. Nobody knew that Highmountain or Suramar was taking a side until BFA was announced. Also, all of the spotlight and character development that happened in Legion was completely and overwhelming Alliance focused. Don't even start.

With Zuldazar and Boralus, we KNOW those zones are faction zones. They were built that way. Just because they haven't officially allied with the factions *yet* does not make them even close to Highmountain or Suramar. Which Alliance characters can still go to, by the way.

You know there's this, and also the fact that Horde's only ever seen those Ashvane guys in Vol'dun, yet the the Alliance sees some Zandalari guy helping out the Horde in Stormsong (Or was it Tirisgarde?) I think we got ourselves SOME RIGHT PROPER WAR CAMPAIGN IMBALANCE FOLKS! GEDDER DONE!!!
On the original topic, Horde players probably don't hear a peep about about any San'layn because Sylvanas might be keeping involvement with them on the down low.

Would be consistent with her MO of keeping her far shadier actions hidden from view. Such as having a beloved war hero to the Horde "arrested" while having your minions keep it secret from one of your most notable champions (who was sent there with the purpose of helping find Saurfang, only to be sent away under false pretenses).
The San'Layn were on super-secret trial basis with The Horde. As someone who played both campaigns, it's kind of neat that the same fleet that The Alliance attacks is also the one retrieving bodies off the ocean floor.

The Alliance and Horde player characters miss each other by moments! While I'm off slogging around on the bottom of the sea, by Death Knight is confronting Nathanos and punching vampires to death.

Secret vampires that no one talks about ever.
11/09/2018 05:00 PMPosted by Rothiron
On the original topic, Horde players probably don't hear a peep about about any San'layn because Sylvanas might be keeping involvement with them on the down low.
So super secret that Talanji knows all about them despite being associated with the Horde for like three days at that point.
11/09/2018 05:12 PMPosted by Kazala
11/09/2018 05:00 PMPosted by Rothiron
On the original topic, Horde players probably don't hear a peep about about any San'layn because Sylvanas might be keeping involvement with them on the down low.
So super secret that Talanji knows all about them despite being associated with the Horde for like three days at that point.
1) You'll have to forgive me, haven't gotten the chance to do the campaign myself just yet, do you have a link or something to Talanji knowing about them?

2) Assuming the war campaigns takes place after the respective leveling zones, I don't think it's been a mere three days.
11/09/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Rothiron
1) You'll have to forgive me, haven't gotten the chance to do the campaign myself just yet, do you have a link or something to Talanji knowing about them?
It's in the Alliance War Campaign. You recover a Horde missive after killing Dark Ranger Captain Areiel. That missive tells of an upcoming meeting between Areiel, Dreven, Rokhan, and Talanji, which you then infiltrate with a potion of invisibility. After Dreven leaves the meeting, Talanji expresses her concerns to Rokhan regarding Sylvanas accepting the San'layn as allies.

11/09/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Rothiron
2) Assuming the war campaigns takes place after the respective leveling zones, I don't think it's been a mere three days.
Hyperbole for effect. The point is that it's not a closely guarded Horde secret if Dreven is being invited to meetings with Talanji before the Zandalari even join the Horde.
11/09/2018 06:14 PMPosted by Kazala
11/09/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Rothiron
1) You'll have to forgive me, haven't gotten the chance to do the campaign myself just yet, do you have a link or something to Talanji knowing about them?
It's in the Alliance War Campaign. You recover a Horde missive after killing Dark Ranger Captain Areiel. That missive tells of an upcoming meeting between Areiel, Dreven, Rokhan, and Talanji, which you then infiltrate with a potion of invisibility. After Dreven leaves the meeting, Talanji expresses her concerns to Rokhan regarding Sylvanas accepting the San'layn as allies.

11/09/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Rothiron
2) Assuming the war campaigns takes place after the respective leveling zones, I don't think it's been a mere three days.
Hyperbole for effect. The point is that it's not a closely guarded Horde secret if Dreven is being invited to meetings with Talanji before the Zandalari even join the Horde.
Well, relatively speaking, you could still infer from all this that it's at least above the pay grade of the Horde PC.
11/09/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Rothiron
Well, relatively speaking, you could still infer from all this that it's at least above the pay grade of the Horde PC.
The Horde PC who pals around as the trusted accomplice of Rokhan and Talanji throughout Nazmir?

You're not a grunt in Zandalar; you're the Speaker of the Horde. You're the recognised lead representative of the Horde delegation on the island.
11/09/2018 07:18 PMPosted by Kazala
The Horde PC who pals around as the trusted accomplice of Rokhan and Talanji throughout Nazmir?

You're not a grunt in Zandalar; you're the Speaker of the Horde. You're the recognised lead representative of the Horde delegation on the island.
But Talanji is still above us rank-wise. Rokhan might be.

And our title in Zandalar means squat to Sylvanas, she'll still keep us in the dark about disappearing Saurfang.
11/09/2018 07:22 PMPosted by Rothiron
And our title in Zandalar means squat to Sylvanas, she'll still keep us in the dark about disappearing Saurfang.
Irrelevant, since Sylvanas isn't even involved.

I don't want to keep arguing about this like there's a logical lore explanation. The explanation is that the Horde PC isn't canon and the San'layn were thrown in by the Alliance quest team to give Alliance players something to fight that would make the Horde look bad. That's all there is to it.
11/09/2018 07:28 PMPosted by Kazala
Irrelevant, since Sylvanas isn't even involved.
Sylvanas is accepting the San'layn as allies. Seems she's pretty involved. And I don't see why what the Zandalari call us should factor into Sylvanas' beliefs.

11/09/2018 07:28 PMPosted by Kazala
I don't want to keep arguing about this like there's a logical lore explanation. The explanation is that the Horde PC isn't canon and the San'layn were thrown in by the Alliance quest team to give Alliance players something to fight that would make the Horde look bad. That's all there is to it.
I think there's probably a sensible lore explanation if you dig for it. Horde player not knowing about the San'layn because Sylvanas kept it from them for whatever reason is at least consistent with her established MO in 8.1.

Hell, maybe the history of the PC, regardless of faction, is pretty complicated with the San'layn given the Northrend campaign, and that's why we're not in the know.

Horde PC and Alliance PC are half-canon though, that's not really in dispute. Who they are is just left intentionally vague.
11/09/2018 07:39 PMPosted by Rothiron
Horde player not knowing about the San'layn because Sylvanas kept it from them for whatever reason is at least consistent with her established MO in 8.1.
The Horde PC is intimately involved in everything Talanji and Rokhan accomplish in Nazmir. There's no sensible lore explanation for why Talanji and Rokhan would know all about Dreven and the Speaker of the Horde would know nothing.

The explanation is that -- like Brennadam -- Dreven exists entirely in the alternate Alliance-only canon.

I'm all done with inventing headcanon to excuse Blizzard's sloppy disregard for continuity.
11/09/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Kazala
The Horde PC is intimately involved in everything Talanji and Rokhan accomplish in Nazmir. There's no sensible lore explanation for why Talanji and Rokhan would know all about Dreven and the Speaker of the Horde would know nothing.

The explanation is that -- like Brennadam -- Dreven exists entirely in the alternate Alliance-only canon.

I'm all done with inventing headcanon to excuse Blizzard's sloppy disregard for continuity.
But we're not with them all the time in Nazmir, and then once we're out of Nazmir we don't work as closely as we did. That's not super relevant to us, and the time we spend in Zuldazar, Vol'dun, or even on our own War Campaign gives ample time for them to be off on a meeting with the vampire elves.

And honestly, trying to bridge some gaps in lore with what you know is part of the fun, because sometimes you might guess right. I don't need every single event in the game spelled out in plain view.

Edit: Then again, I love Dark Souls, so I'm kinda used to analyzing and bridging gaps in my lore knowledge.
11/09/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Rothiron
But we're not with them all the time in Nazmir, and then once we're out of Nazmir we don't work as closely as we did.
There's no explanation for Talanji to be there at all. The timeline doesn't make sense. That's not some kind of Horde or Zandalari outpost. It's a creepy shrine to Bwonsomdi in the middle of the swamp populated only by restless spirits. The only reason Talanji ever has for visiting that place occurs during the Horde leveling experience alongside the PC.

11/09/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Rothiron
And honestly, trying to bridge some gaps in lore with what you know is part of the fun
It is fun... when the developers care about the integrity of the setting. When they don't, it's pointless.

I'm all about "we're not going to spell this out but they can reasonably fill in the blanks". That's not what this is. This is just, "this is Alliance content so it doesn't matter if it reconciles with Horde content, or if it even makes sense at all".
I don't really see why the PC either would or wouldn't know. It's not exactly a secret, he and his forces even work alongside the Banshee's Wail during the diving trip.
11/09/2018 01:36 PMPosted by Kazala
I'm not normally one for the really granular tit-for-tat faction parity arguments, but the Alliance War Campaign is a total success that directly sets the faction up for a major victory in 8.1


but you see,that doesn't change my point.
did i say "HORDE BIAS,THEY GET ACTUALLY VICTORIES"?
No, that was what the guy above me that randomly insulted me thought

I say that the war campaign of 8.0 is mostly filler, and that is true. 80-90 % you spend it in quest doing literally nothing until they realize that they will attack zuldazar and planting some bombs.
That is the only relevant thing and that is actually followed later, i still haven't seen shandris mentioning the random sentinels killed, galliwix mentioning how the alliance tried to kill him, or there isn't even a single mention of the san'yin.

I haven't mentioned the horde war campaign that has their own problems, is just that blizzard failed in both.
11/09/2018 02:33 PMPosted by Reallyhappy
A large amount of alliance poster such as

So should i join them and start insulting everyone,even with personal attacks only because other posters insulted them?.
No,i don't want to insult other players and is never my intention.

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