Unofficial Zandalari Warlock Discussion Megathread

General Discussion
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I feel like this reversal was caused by a reason we're not aware of yet.

In short, the Horde has 80 class / race combinations, counting Zandalari and their current options. Alliance has 81, including Kul Tirans, and their class options.

I'm gonna guess Zandalari warlocks were removed to make way for another class / race wombo combo involving the next pair of Allied Races, so that they can try and even it out again.

Does it make it right? No. As someone else said, the fact they were shown at Blizzcon and then removed is very annoying. Mistakes happen, but a mistake shouldn't happen on a big stage like that involving a slide that should most definitely have been previewed before being shown. It feels very bad.
11/09/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Shadina
I feel like this reversal was caused by a reason we're not aware of yet.

In short, the Horde has 80 class / race combinations, counting Zandalari and their current options. Alliance has 81, including Kul Tirans, and their class options.

I'm gonna guess Zandalari warlocks were removed to make way for another class / race wombo combo involving the next pair of Allied Races, so that they can try and even it out again.

Does it make it right? No. As someone else said, the fact they were shown at Blizzcon and then removed is very annoying. Mistakes happen, but a mistake shouldn't happen on a big stage like that involving a slide that should most definitely have been previewed before being shown. It feels very bad.

Most likely because they wanted to avoid the swarm of Alliance that would run after them with pitchforks for giving the Zandalari 10 classes, so they use false "lore" as an excuse instead of just having the balls to say "we don't want to give Warlocks to the Zandalari, and it has nothing to do with in-game lore,"
"Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are.
When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you."

- Lao Tzu

Meditate on this.
11/09/2018 10:17 AMPosted by Mahjong
"Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are.
When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you."

- Lao Tzu

Meditate on this.

The rich cannot tell the poor to be content with what they have.
Isn't the whole point of a warlock is that they were a Mage who wanted more power than the measly arcane could provide? They went in search of a power greater than what they had and found Fel. If any race would have people searching for more power.... KING RHASTAKAHN! ... wouldn't it be the Zandalari?

Any warlock could easily show a Zandalari how to reach into the Fel and bend it to their will. I mean its not like they are starting out at lvl 120 or something... or like they don't have to play through the events of Vanilla - Current. Explain how a Zandalari troll taking part in the events at the Wrath Gate keeps with Lore.

Imagine if Zandalari Trolls went to Outland! Can you imagine if they saw that Fel had the power to destroy an entire planet that some seeking more power wouldnt want to dabble in it? Oh.. wait they do get to see outland... and all its green Lava and Fel.

The point is, according to the lore a warlock is not a character who was always involved with the fel; but rather they could not be satisfied with the power they had so they searched for more. Warlocks are shunned by their races, there is a reason the warlock trainers are hidden in the cleft of shadow and the basement of the slaughtered lamb. They are not usually accepted by others of their race, they are outcasts. Saying that the Zandalari dont meddle with Fel only helps support the fact that some of them could, and they would be just as shunned as every other warlock in game (lore wise).
11/09/2018 07:34 AMPosted by Ashfinger
11/09/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Pronyra
Zandalari are the only race to be capable of being all four of the hybrid classes, is it really a huge deal that they can't be locks?

(By hybrid I mean palyou, shaman, druid and monk)

Yes it is a huge deal. This has nothing to do with other classes. This is about the Warlock community, not other classes, so I'm not sure how hybrid classes having the option to race change to Zandalari has anything to do with Warlocks or how it benefits the Warlock community.


Except they can be literally any class except for locks and the hero classes...
Why is it such an atrocity that out of all the classes, one can't be played?

Like I'd like to play Draenei rogue and gnome paladin as well. Should I start a bunch of threads over that?
11/09/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Ashfinger
The rich cannot tell the poor to be content with what they have.
Instead of merely reacting to comments, I implore you to do the following:
11/09/2018 10:17 AMPosted by Mahjong
Meditate on this.
You are the one who makes your life miserable; you are the thoughts of your mind.
11/09/2018 10:15 AMPosted by Ashfinger
Most likely because they wanted to avoid the swarm of Alliance that would run after them with pitchforks for giving the Zandalari 10 classes, so they use false "lore" as an excuse instead of just having the balls to say "we don't want to give Warlocks to the Zandalari, and it has nothing to do with in-game lore,"


Lol I don't think any Alliance care and the most I've seen here have been in solidarity with you on this so far.

Though maybe Blizzard also possibly didn't anticipate that all the outrage over the lack of Zandalari Warlocks would be as bright as the potential outrage that could have happened if they didn't get Paladins.

I personally want Kul Tirans to have Warlocks or Paladins, and a Moonkin form that isn't fat, but at this point I've gotten over it.
11/09/2018 10:25 AMPosted by Pronyra
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Yes it is a huge deal. This has nothing to do with other classes. This is about the Warlock community, not other classes, so I'm not sure how hybrid classes having the option to race change to Zandalari has anything to do with Warlocks or how it benefits the Warlock community.


Except they can be literally any class except for locks and the hero classes...
Why is it such an atrocity that out of all the classes, one can't be played?

Like I'd like to play Draenei rogue and gnome paladin as well. Should I start a bunch of threads over that?

Because I am a Warlock, not the other 9 classes. It does nothing for me that the Zandalari can be 9 other classes, as I do not play any of those, and not everyone here likes or has the time to play more than one class. Some of us are dedicated and passionate to a single class, and have been playing the class for 15 years now so this is a huge deal to us to be denied the MAJOR Horde race of the expansion.

If you are not a dedicated Warlock player, this thread has nothing to do with you and does not require your irrelevant feedback regarding the other class choices for the race.
11/09/2018 06:08 AMPosted by Ashfinger
Post your game-play/lore reasons why you think Zandalari Warlocks should not have been removed, and why they should be added back.

Please keep this discussion civic, and free of other classes bashing on each other. We don't need hear how Zandalari getting Paladins for example, is a reason why us Warlocks should shut up and not ask for it. This is about the Warlock community, and those passionate enough who have mained the class for years. We are happy that Mages got to be KT, and Paladins got to be Zandalari. There is no need to drag them into this, or vice-versa.

Please also stir away from bashing Monks (as they have ZERO lore backup for being Zandalari, but we get it just let it be), or asking for a class to be removed. We don't need to have a class removed, as Alliance already have 1 extra class for their faction compared to Horde, and they can be easily given 1 more to negate the complaints for Zandalari having 10 classes (with the addition of Warlocks).

Hopefully there will be enough constructive feedback & criticism here to reach the attention of the development team, and we'll be able to change their minds.


You will not have a Zandalari Warlock, no matter how many times it gets posted by anyone
TAKE MY MONEY AND LET ME RACE CHANGE TO ZANDALARI!!!!!!
Many Zandalari use Shadow and Blood Magics. Al'Tabim being one of them during Vanilla wow where he explained that Zandalari had Demonaics who summoned demons and allow the demon to posses them and enslave the demon from within (Fairly similar to demon Hunters except theyre casters not melee) Not only that the trolls of all tribes were known to use Sacrificial magic and the Zandalari were the progenitor tribe.
There is no valid reason why Zandalari can or cannot be Warlocks - therefore they should be able to be warlocks because the idea of classes retricted from races is dated.

Mechanically - I as a forsaken can't turn my back on the horde and turn hostile towards them, so there is no reason why the Horde - can't have zandlari warlocks. There is no point for seperation. We're the player character - we don't need to "fit" in the lore - Zandalari can go learn Fel Magic in the shadowcleft - no reason Forsaken can't be Paladins and no reason why the Demon Hunters can't teach there factions what they learned from Illadin and at this point no reason we can't raise some new death knights. Gnome Druids? FINE turn em into mech animals at this point - let Pandoras Box be open!
11/09/2018 09:24 AMPosted by Requan
Guys guys guys. Youre doing this all wrong. You need to talk in dollar signs not with logic. Making sense that zandalari trolls fit into the lore is just nonsensical! (sarcasm)

BLIZZARD. PAY ATTENTION SILLY GOOSE. WARLOCKS WILL PAY MONEY TO BECOME ZANDALARI TROLLS. JUST DO IT.


I will give my MONEY LOL take it blizzard - give me the option and you can have the 25$
11/09/2018 10:32 AMPosted by Vaerth
11/09/2018 06:08 AMPosted by Ashfinger
Post your game-play/lore reasons why you think Zandalari Warlocks should not have been removed, and why they should be added back.

Please keep this discussion civic, and free of other classes bashing on each other. We don't need hear how Zandalari getting Paladins for example, is a reason why us Warlocks should shut up and not ask for it. This is about the Warlock community, and those passionate enough who have mained the class for years. We are happy that Mages got to be KT, and Paladins got to be Zandalari. There is no need to drag them into this, or vice-versa.

Please also stir away from bashing Monks (as they have ZERO lore backup for being Zandalari, but we get it just let it be), or asking for a class to be removed. We don't need to have a class removed, as Alliance already have 1 extra class for their faction compared to Horde, and they can be easily given 1 more to negate the complaints for Zandalari having 10 classes (with the addition of Warlocks).

Hopefully there will be enough constructive feedback & criticism here to reach the attention of the development team, and we'll be able to change their minds.


You will not have a Zandalari Warlock, no matter how many times it gets posted by anyone


Funny, I remember these same sorts of things being said in every thread about Zandalari Paladins as well...
"Zandalari have no connection to the Fel" This still IRKS me to the bone, there are actually more proven connections with Fel energy Linked to the Zandalari

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=128453/witchdoctor-yoksa#comments

Theres a literal NPC in Vol'dun that uses the ability FEL IMMOLATE, a warlock spell to start and an ability that has actualy Fel energy being used and to boot it uses DRAIN LIFE another warlock spell.

Even though this is an Undead NPC , Every Horde Player who quests here comes across this NPC in the quest, but regardeless of being Undead or the wholse "zandalari dont like fel magic bs" it just shows that there is more proof of Zandalari that use Warlock spells and have ties to the Fel. #ZANDALOCKGATE
11/09/2018 06:43 AMPosted by Mergo
Remove monk and add warlock. Zandalari don't even like how monks fight.


Seriously, if one race having too many classes is an issue (not convinced it is) then surely one class having too many races is too. And it's lore unfriendly.

ZTs being monks (or I guess their version of a monk) is incredibly lore unfriendly due to their mutual hate with Pandarens. I think every race can be a monk now, which seems silly to me, and certainly deflates concerns about ZTs being too many classes.

There is the existence of Zandalari Warlocks in game AND an explanation for how it could work.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Al%27tabim_the_All-Seeing

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Demoniac

And probably more I am forgetting.

BUT ABOVE ALL, this was all but promised and then reneged at the last moment. And it was a big feature of BFA and it would give the Horde two races that can be Warlock instead of one (which many are disappointed in on its own)

Youtuber pyromancer voices a lot of the same complaints I have

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yp_nWzEe8E

NOW! Some say Demoniacs arent the same as Warlocks!!!!!!!!!!!

And this is not the point but also not really true. The point is Zandalari use fel and tainted magics, the issue Blizzard raised being that they dont. I think saying Demoniacs no longer exist is a bigger and more egregious retcon than saying Demoniacs and Warlocks are similar.

For another, all evidence suggests the Demoniacs were like warlocks in terms of being demonic spellcasters. They just drew their power differently. Which I would add is also being done for Paladins and Druids and the like to make them fit in with Zandalari culture. This is fine, I like expanding the lore like this to open up more gameplay possibilities but it means the same can be done for Warlocks.

I think they want the loa to be the patrons of each class. But honestly what that will mean is the player goes to meet a loa, quest for them, get powers, and then eventually this peters out and normal questing becomes the norm.
For a warlock it wouldnt be different, just instead of a loa you make some secret ritual site to do the aforementioned demon binding, speak with the demon beforehand and then eventually take him. Still an otherworldly power source you make contact with, speak to, and eventually gain all you can from before normal questing takes over.

What I do not agree with is the idea that the lore is strict when it comes to how Warlocks are represented but loose when it comes to allowing paladins and druids, which is what I think is being permitted when we allow criticisms like the above to make decisions for us.
11/09/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Shadina
I feel like this reversal was caused by a reason we're not aware of yet.

In short, the Horde has 80 class / race combinations, counting Zandalari and their current options. Alliance has 81, including Kul Tirans, and their class options.

I'm gonna guess Zandalari warlocks were removed to make way for another class / race wombo combo involving the next pair of Allied Races, so that they can try and even it out again.

Does it make it right? No. As someone else said, the fact they were shown at Blizzcon and then removed is very annoying. Mistakes happen, but a mistake shouldn't happen on a big stage like that involving a slide that should most definitely have been previewed before being shown. It feels very bad.


I will not stand as a class that has been around since Classic WoW and I feel frequently gets the short end of the stick gets it again for some abstract idea of balance which will have next to no practical impact.

I think you may be right but this is ridiculous and it seems to be done so monks get yet another race
Meh, Kul Tirans got Mages, so I'm perfectly fine with Zandalari Warlocks.

Besides, it wouldn't further water down Warlock lore to have Zandalari Warlocks, like it does to Paladin lore with Zandalari Paladins. But that's not what this topic is about, so... nevermind.
Do not listen to people saying you shouldnt assert yourself because it would be "unfair"

What's unfair is giving Mages 7/8 allied races instead of 6 because of 1 character while saying we must have been wrong about Zandalari questgivers in classic or mobs in Mists of Pandaria

What's unfair is our class still using Classic WoW animations

What's unfair is promised casting stances not making it in

What's unfair is saying X for a year up to and including a big conference then saying actually no longer X afterwards with a questionable lore rationale.

I was patient with everything else until this, because this frankly was something taken away so one class can have access to as many races as possible.

Just like how Demonology had to become bad in order for Demon Hunters to feel special.

<span class="truncated">...</span>
Yes it is a huge deal. This has nothing to do with other classes. This is about the Warlock community, not other classes, so I'm not sure how hybrid classes having the option to race change to Zandalari has anything to do with Warlocks or how it benefits the Warlock community.


Except they can be literally any class except for locks and the hero classes...
Why is it such an atrocity that out of all the classes, one can't be played?

Like I'd like to play Draenei rogue and gnome paladin as well. Should I start a bunch of threads over that?


A perfect example. A Mage who can be all but one Allied Race telling us it isnt a big deal to have something shown to us taken away. Nobody who says these things in this thread seems to grasp this fact, that something shown and a major selling point of the whole expansion is basically closed off for a terrible reason.

Is the Mage, insulated as they are within Blizzard's coddling, unaware that Warlocks can only be 3 allied races? And that maybe that and the aforementioned bait'n'switch is why people are annoyed?

And the fact that we were bumped in order to give Monks yet another race seemingly? If you think Zandalari being too many classes is imbalanced, why not question the reverse of Monks having access to too many races, even a race which Pandarens hate?

And on a broader not... asking "why even care" is not an argument against anything brought up. It's an empty statement.

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