Sylvanas ordered Wrathgate to happen?

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Sylvannas ordered the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas to become immortal.

I'm calling it now.
11/09/2018 02:25 PMPosted by Kyiwani
Sylvannas ordered the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas to become immortal.

I'm calling it now.
Your hypoerbole doesn't make it that Sylvanas isn't an evil duplicitous character who has literally never been loyal to the Horde and has had the Forsaken prepared to kill "anyone who stands in their way" since vanilla.
Ah Treng, I am 100% certain we are diametrically different regarding how we view the Alliance/Horde but it is amusing we both share a hatred of Sylvanas.
11/09/2018 02:29 PMPosted by Zerde
Ah Treng, I am 100% certain we are diametrically different regarding how we view the Alliance/Horde but it is amusing we both share a hatred of Sylvanas.
I mean, she's villainizing the Horde. Of course I'm not going to like her.
11/09/2018 02:27 PMPosted by Treng
11/09/2018 02:25 PMPosted by Kyiwani
Sylvannas ordered the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas to become immortal.

I'm calling it now.
Your hypoerbole doesn't make it that Sylvanas isn't an evil duplicitous character who has literally never been loyal to the Horde and has had the Forsaken prepared to kill "anyone who stands in their way" since vanilla.


I meant the utter stupidity of implying she orchestrated the Wrathgate. It did nothing but harm her, the Forsaken and the Horde.
11/09/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Kyiwani
11/09/2018 02:27 PMPosted by Treng
...Your hypoerbole doesn't make it that Sylvanas isn't an evil duplicitous character who has literally never been loyal to the Horde and has had the Forsaken prepared to kill "anyone who stands in their way" since vanilla.


I meant the utter stupidity of implying she orchestrated the Wrathgate. It did nothing but harm her, the Forsaken and the Horde.

https://youtu.be/DKutw1zDgms?t=75
11/09/2018 02:49 PMPosted by Treng
11/09/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Kyiwani
...

I meant the utter stupidity of implying she orchestrated the Wrathgate. It did nothing but harm her, the Forsaken and the Horde.

https://youtu.be/DKutw1zDgms?t=75


What does that has to do with the Wrathgate specifically?

Sylvanas lost her seat of power, and had to rely on the rest of the Horde to save her.
She severly allienated the Alliance and pretty much everyone else, including the Argents and the Ebon Blade.
She weaked her forces for just before the final push into Icecrown.
She exposed the blight, which was then still a secret.

I have no doubt Sylvanas is capable of something like this, and i hate how the Horde is being torn apart - again. But the theory she planned to be betrayed makes zero sense.
This whole thing is positively Orwellian, the way the past is being rewritten.

It seems they are building up Sylvanas to be akin to Goldstein from 1984.

The person who is hated and yelled at for everything that ever happened. Any event in the past, present, and future can be written and rewritten, in order to lay all the Horde's faults squarely on her shoulders.
11/09/2018 01:20 PMPosted by Zuleika
11/09/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Treng
They probably wanted people to be able to still love Sylvanas, and I imagine Afrasiabi got sick of someone arguing with him about her as if they knew her character better than he did.

If they wanted people to still love Sylvanas, why did they assume everyone was going to be on board with Saurfang's rebellion until people complained?

I feel like there's a missing puzzle piece here.


I think it’s based on how it was portrayed. I don’t remember many complaining about the alpha portrayal of Saurfang angrily marching to see Anduin.

And that scene became Lost Honor. They are one and the same.

Also, time elapsed is a big issue with people. Possibly the biggest?
I'm going to give this dummy the benefit of the doubt and say that he probably meant that she created the environment for which the Wrathgate could occur. After all she did order the R&D of the Blight.

She did design it with the intention of using it on Scourge, Alliance and Horde forces (and had test subjects on captured members of all factions). While she may not have been behind Wrathgate itself, its doesn't change the fact that the Blight was used EXACTLY what it was designed for in that encounter. She may have not pulled the trigger, but she was prepared to use it like that (and has since then).
I think the plan was to just use the plague on the scourge. However Vari and Putress used it to kill the scourge, alliance and horde forces. Sylvanas was making that plague for a reason.
11/09/2018 02:54 PMPosted by Kyiwani
Sylvanas lost her seat of power,
Commanders make colossally stupid decisions on occasion. Thrall nominated Garrosh as Warchief. Garrosh decided to be a racist biggot. Vol'jin made Sylvanas his successor.

Sylvanas overestimated her hand. It happens.
11/09/2018 11:43 AMPosted by Baljin
"I've heard these discussions on the internet about 'she's going off the rails', but is she? I've been writing Sylvanas personally since 2006, and this is pretty much - the Wrathgate and the Blight and the Forsaken - in character. Those were all under Sylvanas' orders."


The order was against the Lich King and the living, but not against the Horde forces at least not openly against them. Sylvanas isn't stupid, but she has no love lost if a few thousand Horde died, but for them to die unnecessarily is an issue she has with Varimathras and when he did his coup d'etat that was when she was furious. Not for attacking the Lich King, but for usurping and forgetting his place under her heel.
11/09/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Jellex
11/09/2018 01:49 PMPosted by Kyveli
I don't think so, I think they're just trying to create a bigger divide between those that are for and against her, so that they can laugh at us for their amusement.


I saw this. It's really kind of frustrating.

As far as I can tell, even in GD, people are saying that they don't want this story, and they're saying "We know what's good for you, your division and frustration is a good thing."


New meme boys
11/09/2018 02:25 PMPosted by Kyiwani
Sylvannas ordered the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas to become immortal.

I'm calling it now.


It was actually Sylvanas who played matchmaker between Azshara and Sargeras.
11/09/2018 04:21 PMPosted by Solythn
It was actually Sylvanas who played matchmaker between Azshara and Sargeras.


Sylvanas was Arthas and killed herself so she could raise herself as a Banshee.

/inception bwaaaa
I saw this. It's really kind of frustrating.

As far as I can tell, even in GD, people are saying that they don't want this story, and they're saying "We know what's good for you, your division and frustration is a good thing."


Ironically, Blizzard fired Jay Wilson because he had that same exact philosophy when he worked on Diablo 3 as game director.
11/09/2018 04:32 PMPosted by Nairdrix
Ironically, Blizzard fired Jay Wilson because he had that same exact philosophy when he worked on Diablo 3 as game director.
That's not what happened at all.

Jay resigned from his position on the Diablo team in 2013 -- officially because he was burned out from working on it for ten years, speculatively because he'd soaked up virtually 100% of the community's ire and moving him off the team at that time meant Reaper of Souls would seem like a fresh start under new leadership when it released in early 2014, despite the reality that it was developed under Jay's leadership.

Jay Wilson didn't leave Blizzard until 2016.
11/09/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Kazala
11/09/2018 04:32 PMPosted by Nairdrix
Ironically, Blizzard fired Jay Wilson because he had that same exact philosophy when he worked on Diablo 3 as game director.
That's not what happened at all.

Jay resigned from his position on the Diablo team in 2013 -- officially because he was burned out from working on it for ten years, speculatively because he'd soaked up virtually 100% of the community's ire and moving him off the team at that time meant Reaper of Souls would seem like a fresh start under new leadership when it released in early 2014, despite the reality that it was developed under Jay's leadership.

Jay Wilson didn't leave Blizzard until 2016.


I suppose I mis-remembered his leaving the Diablo teams as him being fired. Either way, his philosophy of "I know what you want better than you do" is what ultimately led to him having to drop out of Diablo 3.
11/09/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Nairdrix
Either way, his philosophy of "I know what you want better than you do" is what ultimately led to him having to drop out of Diablo 3.
I mean, again, he developed Reaper of Souls, which ended up revitalizing the game and making it worth playing.

Blizzard absolutely did not have a problem with his "the players just don't know what fun is" mentality. That's become the Blizzard ethos more or less across the board.

If his resignation from the Diablo team was indeed forced -- which there's no actual evidence of -- it was almost certainly a PR move and not a vote of no confidence in his ability, since they'd just allowed him to lead the development of RoS.

It's honestly more likely that the official version is truthful, and that with RoS development wrapping up, he asked Blizzard to move him to a new project, since he'd been working on Diablo 3 for a decade and spent his time following D3's release enjoying all the perks that come with being one of the most hated figures in the industry, including nonstop online harassment and death threats.

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