BfA Class design, intentional?

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
I like BFA.
11/12/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Masoschism
Legion was a travesty in class design until the legendary crutch,


I didnt play Legion but from an outside view, my personal opinion is that Legion was actually a bad expac.

It just didnt seem that way because they gave you all so much. Everyone had legendaries, the much wanted demon hunter, etc.

I think if you stripped all the goodies they gave you Legion looked bleak.
I seriously believe the pruning is being done slowly over the course of mutiple xpacs to lower the amount of button presses and abilities so that wow can be played using a console controller, so the game can be ported to consoles. I have been watching some old vids of my ret/paladin as a whole from back in wrath and the amount of abilities and situational utility is just staggering when compared to now. The old talent system had its flaws but compared to what we have now, the games feels like a dumbed down simplified version of itself with shinier textures, animations and models.

Also admittedly the old talent system wasn't perfect as there was optimal vs sub optimal and cookie cutter builds as it were, but some light pruning and combining of talents could have solved that vs the complete change/overhaul of the talents we got with MOP.

I have played ret since vanilla, and since legion the ret rotation is just so slow and boring with so little "unique" spec utility/class identity. Unique being utility that isn't provided by Holy or prot. I just can't enjoy playing my ret anymore. I can put up with not being OP, or top DPS, i can put up with being sub optimal vs other classes, although i would rather not feel like i am dragging down a group by playing ret, instead of playing FOTM class x or y at the time. But what i cannot put up with is playing a class/spec that i don't have fun playing as the core abilities/mechanics are so simple and boring/slow that it takes all enjoyment out of the game. Compared the the class i grew to love my paladin isn't even recognizable as anything even close to what it was years ago.

People interact with the game in WOW through there classes/avatar and if the class/avatar experience is poor or unenjoyable you can have the best pve or pvp systems/content ever, but people will still not enjoy the game. And player retention will still keep getting lower and lower.
You would think after almost 15 yrs the devs would understand this which is why my only explanation for the current issues with class design is they are slowly moving to a WoW console port.
11/12/2018 08:58 AMPosted by Purplesipp
I like BFA.


Says the rouge. Op raids and mythic plus, ez road to whatever content you want to play. Mythic plus, no prob que up get invite, raids, np, apply to join guild they take 3, and always need more for backup, pvp, oh yeah OP to the max, #*%@%#*# faces. Yeah, BFA is great!!!!!

The other classes don’t want you nerfed, but man we would definitely like to be able to play with such ease in at least two of the three aspects of the game you so easily enjoy. It’s 100% true, my less geared mage can q for 5 invites and get one, whereas my spriest has to que for 50 for every one invite, and my priest is significantly more geared and has more progress. This game is broken if you don’t play one of about 5 or 6 classes.
For my part, I thought the vengeance AP mechanic for tanks was really terrible design, but I do miss Lightning Bolt while moving. I don’t miss Multi-Strike.

Mists was a mixed bag. Melee were really, really undesirable in raid because ranged had no downsides. Ret was still dealing with having to maintain Inquisition, which felt unfun to me. They also ruined catbear going into Mists. Disc was also super strong, when you wanted a healer at all - hybrid healing CDs were stupid strong.

I don’t think Mists tuning is the panacea everyone believes.
11/11/2018 05:05 PMPosted by Gumble
Honestly, if any of the people I have played with over the years are any indication. They aren't going to keep a loyal fan-base after this. They will become "just another !@#$ gaming company"
11/12/2018 09:32 AMPosted by Latest
11/12/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Masoschism
Legion was a travesty in class design until the legendary crutch,


I didnt play Legion but from an outside view, my personal opinion is that Legion was actually a bad expac.

It just didnt seem that way because they gave you all so much. Everyone had legendaries, the much wanted demon hunter, etc.

I think if you stripped all the goodies they gave you Legion looked bleak.


I personally agree with you, I was very unhappy with Legion, enough to end my sub after 12.5 years. There was always the lure of legendaries that made even boring content like M+ and WQ at least a little bit interesting. Without them in BFA, the shine wears off and the underlying system shows through.

Though Legion did have more in the way of non-instanced content. For example, the class storylines, as well as the Suramar campaign and the various artifact appearances. Those were enough to keep me entertained for quite a while after my raid guild quit. There isn't really anything comparable in BFA at this point - there may be later, we'll see.
11/12/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Jadyn
there was optimal vs sub optimal and cookie cutter builds as it were
In WotLK there were at least 3 good specs per class, and they all felt like the same class, enhanced by whatever trees they built into. For a few, there were more than 3. That is WAY more than we have now.

In TBC there were even more viable* hybrid (half and half trees) builds.

In Vanilla there were even more, though Vanilla had its own issues with classes, and the balance was abysmal. Post 60 scaling was so bad for some classes (and so good for others) people today honestly wouldn't believe it.

* By "viable" I mean "fun" and people played them, not optimal.
Would love to see blizz go back to wrath style class design with all the new things that make modern wow great. better story telling, graphics, transmog, better more engaging pve content, raid/boss design. New bg's. The majority of wow current issues is stemmed from current class design, the new AP grind hook they use to artificially inflate game time, and the complete reliance on rng and trading what used to be a grind towards fulfillment to an online casino for short cheap thrills. Rather than adding new meaningful repeatable content we have island expeditions which only serve the purpose of furthering the crappy boring AP grind. Get rid of all this crap rng and boring systems like AP grind and world quests. I really don't know who at blizzard thinks doing the same world quests every day is fun. Probably the same person who thought doing the same daily quests before was fun. I don't understand why the valor and honor currency systems were changed what was wrong with saving your currency and getting something you actually want.

The only explanation i can think of for changing the game to the so heavily rng based systems we have now is to artificially extend game time to increase sub time to maximize profits. Not maximize player fun and game experience.

Look at the faction imbalance issue's many server have, and the pop issues. I remember when blizzard actually used to give a crap about the games health and making the player experience better. Back in the day whenever a new expansion would release and sometimes even when not they used to offer mass transfers and faction changes from imbalanced servers. Then they started linking servers, which they still do rarely but not anywhere near the frequency that they used too.

/End Rant
11/12/2018 07:19 PMPosted by Masoschism
11/12/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Jadyn
there was optimal vs sub optimal and cookie cutter builds as it were
In WotLK there were at least 3 good specs per class, and they all felt like the same class, enhanced by whatever trees they built into. For a few, there were more than 3. That is WAY more than we have now.

In TBC there were even more viable* hybrid (half and half trees) builds.

In Vanilla there were even more, though Vanilla had its own issues with classes, and the balance was abysmal. Post 60 scaling was so bad for some classes (and so good for others) people today honestly wouldn't believe it.

* By "viable" I mean "fun" and people played them, not optimal.

I agree with you, TBC was the expansion that I have most enjoyed the classes. I can't remember any class/spec that was very far behind others, or not fun to play. I remember that all 3 lock specs were fun and viable in at least one type of content. I really miss those days...
11/12/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Jadyn
I seriously believe the pruning is being done slowly over the course of mutiple xpacs to lower the amount of button presses and abilities so that wow can be played using a console controller, so the game can be ported to consoles.


You've apparently never seen anyone playing FFXIV on a console...

The amount of ability buttons isn't the issue with console ports.

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