"Shockingly Even"

Battlegrounds
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11/12/2018 10:49 AMPosted by Vanx
I don't know. You'd think a <30s only AV would hardly ever run for Horde. The queue times would be horrible.

There was a non prestige bracket in Legion. The gameplay in that bracket was entirely different than the prestige brackets since the TTK was much longer. And as Jugaa said, you got pulled out of that if you queued with someone with prestige.


To be fair, I actually didn’t consider the 40 mans, I rarely bother to check those scoreboards during a match. I should look at the next couple I play.

In the smaller BGs what I said does hold true for me.

Queue times are 8-15 minutes for both BG queues depending on the night. It seems to vary widely. It actually hasn’t been too bad since I discovered you can queue for both types of game at the same time. One will pop and the other tends to pop shortly after you get out of the BG.
11/12/2018 10:49 AMPosted by Vanx
You'd think a <30s only AV would hardly ever run for Horde. The queue times would be horrible.


Why would you think that though? You don't think Horde get new pvpers?
It's actually amazing that there are enough players to sustain an entirely different honor level bracket. This is what people need to keep in mind when they doubt stats. We're all 1 player out of who knows how many.
11/12/2018 09:40 AMPosted by Vanx
Often times at the start of a match, I'll assault the enemy's node alone because I know it will put me in a position for a small fight. Alliance will often have a hunter or two guarding that node. Hunters seem to be really really popular with alliance.

It's amazing how often they die without even using turtle. And it is definitely up because it is the very first fight of the match.

I think that is one of the bigger differences between alliance and horde.

Everyone can do damage, but alliance players often use their defensives poorly or in some cases, such as above, not at all.

Horde players tend to have more arena experience, and even if they are low rated matches, playing arena will make you a better defensive player.

Highly questionable. I get in fights with Horde rogues who don't use vanish all the time.

Nor is it necessarily a bad idea. For example, if it's a choice between using turtle/vanish or taking one last shot at the guy on the flag so there's extra time for help to arrive, it's often better to take that extra shot. Battlegrounds aren't about killing people, they're about objectives, something the Alliance are better at than Horde.
11/12/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Tsataga
Someone mentioned it a while ago (Yarrow? Maybe? Stupid brain can’t remember) that when they hit honor 30 or 31 they started seeming much higher honor level characters.

I did post that, but others posted it before me. And a number of people posted about how Alliance had suddenly become stupid in epic battlegrounds, and it turned out they were just over 30.

At the time, the over 30 bracket was full of outdated strategies, perhaps because the honor level grinders were still focused on Honor instead of Conquest. It has gotten better since then, though I suppose some of the AV strategies that force a long, painful Alliance loss might still be a result of people who want honor more than Conquest.
11/12/2018 08:58 AMPosted by Vanx
11/12/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Jugajr
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How so? If Alliance can win AV there, why can't we here? If we can win 10/15 mans here, why can't they there? Same game.


Um, because of faction-wide talent stacking?

Once again, I don't blame racials or map bias (some maps have bias, but that exists for both sides). I think many alliance on NA are far more casual with respect to PvP and they often times lack basic game knowledge and are quite often undergeared.

Could that situation be reversed in a different market? Yes, this is a problem of culture, not necessarily game design.

BTW: Alliance has been doing better in AV during prime time this weekend, fwiw.


I won an av leveling my mage last night got her to 112 because of it :)
11/12/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Vanx
11/12/2018 10:07 AMPosted by Erelir
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I work 11am-7pm EST ( Monday through Friday) so I'll pick up a game here or there in the morning but I mostly play around 8pm or later and at all times during the weekend. I never leave games and I rarely zone into in-progress games too. I merc'd one EotS on this character and that's it.


Just so strange that our experiences in the epics are mirror images of each other even playing at the same time frames. Actually someone said that there is a different pool for players under honor level 30? Is that actually a thing?

Would explain some disparities in experience if so.


I just hit HL 30 a few minutes ago so I'll attempt to keep tabs on my experience from here on out but intuition tells me that it won't be drastically different. Still, I'll keep an open mind.
11/12/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Tsataga

Someone mentioned it a while ago (Yarrow? Maybe? Stupid brain can’t remember) that when they hit honor 30 or 31 they started seeming much higher honor level characters.

Did they change the cutoff?

I thought the brackets switched at honor level 50.

(And if you're in a premade group with someone who's in the higher honor level bracket, your group queues into the higher bracket.)
11/12/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Erelir
I just hit HL 30 a few minutes ago so I'll attempt to keep tabs on my experience from here on out but intuition tells me that it won't be drastically different. Still, I'll keep an open mind.

If you let us know whether you shift brackets at 30 or at 31, that would be interesting to know too.
Played my first bg this expac on another horde toon yesterday. Silvershard mines. We won 1500 to 200ish.

To give context, while I have seen this on alliance thanks to me going to honor level 15 and doing a million bgs, it is very rare.

Shockingly even indeed. I will be playing horde pvp for sure this expac.
The biggest take aways I can see alliance side is:
1. CD management
2. Positioning
3. Battleground Knowledge/Cant take directions well.
11/12/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Yarrow
11/12/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Erelir
I just hit HL 30 a few minutes ago so I'll attempt to keep tabs on my experience from here on out but intuition tells me that it won't be drastically different. Still, I'll keep an open mind.

If you let us know whether you shift brackets at 30 or at 31, that would be interesting to know too.


At 30, I'm seeing players on both sides with apparently no honor level cap. It varies tremendously from 33 to 88 to 157 to...

30 appears to be the cutoff. It's also worth noting that I haven't lost a BG since getting there and I've ran about six; three regular and three epic. Just a small sample size and I'm in discord with a friend. Some, but not all, were very close matches too.

Edit: My buddy is at a pretty low honor level so he isn't the reason we're being matched with HL 100+ players, I am.
11/12/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Forums
11/12/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Tsataga

Someone mentioned it a while ago (Yarrow? Maybe? Stupid brain can’t remember) that when they hit honor 30 or 31 they started seeming much higher honor level characters.

Did they change the cutoff?

I thought the brackets switched at honor level 50.

(And if you're in a premade group with someone who's in the higher honor level bracket, your group queues into the higher bracket.)


I dunno. I’m only honor 12. Although based on Yarrow’s and Erelir’s testimony 30 seems legit.

And I figured I was getting paired up cuz my friends. I don’t care. I just like playing, the honor level next to their name doesn’t really mean anything.
11/12/2018 02:52 PMPosted by Tsataga
the honor level next to their name doesn’t really mean anything.

I think it mostly reflects how much PvP you did in Legion.
If I had to guess, here's the most likely reasons Ally loses more in bgs:

1. low DPS in general, Horde players are consistently top of the damage done/killing blows on the charts, and good DPS is a big determining factor in the outcome of groupfights

2. lack of situational awareness is a HUGE one, on my Druid I've ninjaed *several* base flags from right under Alliance's noses - while 2/3 Ally players were standing only like 15 yds away (perhaps they were AFK? lol), also in capture the flag maps it is super super common for Alliance casuals to completely ignore the EFC as he literally runs right by them in mid (ugh)

3. no peeling for their healers, but Ally casuals seem to LOVE PvPing on roads with Warriors, Rets, Demon Hunters, etc while their healer is getting killed in the background, then they will complain about the healer being "bad" etc

4. the flip-side of #3 is that Ally casuals seem to be bad at focusing the Horde team's healers (who usually get excellent peeling/support from their fellow Horde teammates), and if it's more than 2 healers Ally casuals just don't know what to do and quicky fall apart

5. weaker team composition/Alliance tends to bring underpowered specs to bgs... for example the Alliance team might bring Shadow Priests while the Horde team brings Disc Priests, or the Alliance might stack lots of squishy clothies/casters while the Horde shows up with OP melee classes

6. they give up way too easily/don't even attempt to make a "comeback"... a lot of Ally casuals seem to think it's better to just AFK out at the first major setback/teamfight loss

Note that I didn't even mention the usual excuses such as "OP Horde racials", because I think it's mostly a player skill issue and that the racials provide a negligible bonus in a battleground context (arena might be a different story). For whatever reason Alliance casuals (generally) perform worse than Horde casuals in random bgs.
11/12/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Jugajr
So how does Blizzard "fix" an l2p issue on a lot of players ... skill, I guess?


40 pages later in the last identical thread and still no one answered this question.
11/12/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Erelir
11/12/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Yarrow
...
If you let us know whether you shift brackets at 30 or at 31, that would be interesting to know too.

At 30, I'm seeing players on both sides with apparently no honor level cap. It varies tremendously from 33 to 88 to 157 to...

30 appears to be the cutoff. It's also worth noting that I haven't lost a BG since getting there and I've ran about six; three regular and three epic. Just a small sample size and I'm in discord with a friend. Some, but not all, were very close matches too.

Edit: My buddy is at a pretty low honor level so he isn't the reason we're being matched with HL 100+ players, I am.

Thanks. Sounds like the cutoff is between 29 and 30, not between 30 and 31, something I wasn't sure about.

I'm pretty sure there is no additional cutoff, or we wouldn't be seeing the occasional 200s and 300s. I occasionally see battlegrounds with the full range of honor levels at trough times, so I think if there aren't enough in queue to make bracketed battlegrounds in a reasonable amount of time, we'll be mixed together to avoid excessive queue lengths. I suppose it's possible that once there are enough people above the next breakpoint, if there is one, we'l see another bracket created.

I still think Conquest would be a better way to break up the brackets this expansion, but it's good to know how it actually works, too.
11/12/2018 04:04 PMPosted by Muffindiver
11/12/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Jugajr
So how does Blizzard "fix" an l2p issue on a lot of players ... skill, I guess?

40 pages later in the last identical thread and still no one answered this question.

Since it's not a L2P issue, obviously that's not what needs to be fixed.

In 8.1, Blizzard is trying to fix the relevant issues, namely racials and gearing differential from war mode imbalance.
11/12/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Erelir
11/12/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Yarrow
...
If you let us know whether you shift brackets at 30 or at 31, that would be interesting to know too.


At 30, I'm seeing players on both sides with apparently no honor level cap. It varies tremendously from 33 to 88 to 157 to...

30 appears to be the cutoff. It's also worth noting that I haven't lost a BG since getting there and I've ran about six; three regular and three epic. Just a small sample size and I'm in discord with a friend. Some, but not all, were very close matches too.

Edit: My buddy is at a pretty low honor level so he isn't the reason we're being matched with HL 100+ players, I am.


Alliance has been doing pretty good the last week or so. The horde I'm with are still winning more than losing, but definitely more losses than usual and some really close matches with alliance players that clearly know what they are doing.

Less blowouts, which is good.

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