Remove Azerite traits

Arenas
11/12/2018 10:43 AMPosted by Orphanchild
11/12/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Hexxes
Interesting. Wonder why we saw nobody else ever do it?


Because

11/12/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Orphanchild
They just put in more work.


I find it hard to believe if an unknown team shot up to the top of the ladder on live from exploiting an azerite trait that you'd respond in the same way. Obviously not a 100% fair comparison because Method Orange can still compete without this type of stuff, but the point stands.

Nobody wants to reward that kind of extra "work" where you just find ways to abuse OP azerite traits. We want people to be rewarded for working hard at perfecting their strategy and overall gameplay, not finding secret azerite exploits. It's just another piece of evidence to add to the case against azerite traits in PvP.
I feel like unless they rebalanced PVP accordingly, everything would be rather broken. It's easier to nerf the odd traits that are problematic than it is to rebalance every single class/spec.
11/12/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Hexxes
11/12/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Orphanchild
...

Dude everyone did this. They just put in more work.


Everyone knew they could pop innervate in the starting room, time it so there is 1 second left on it before gates opened, and get full stacked lively spirit at start of the game practically instagibbing someone and getting every single defensive cd in the first 10 seconds? Interesting. Wonder why we saw nobody else ever do it?

Also everyone knew Assassination Rogues could take 90% of someone's HP with poison knife? Wonder why Cdew said nobody else knew about it and they were saving it a a last resort?

Anyway the main point isn't about them deserving to win. it's that Azerite traits are imbalanced garbage. let's not get too off track here.

It was known for a while, other teams just didn’t opt to do it. Wallikriks or w/e wanted more consistent damage.

As for Rogues not using Sharpened Blades, that’s their fault for not testing.

If you didn’t want to make the discussion about them, why bring it up? In the end everyone dislikes the Trait system but Method Orange clearly put in more work in a tournament where everyone has to play with Traits.
No because Azerite traits are literally the only thing giving any sort of character depth and options. Class design is very hollow and often in many areas missing. Azerite traits fill in gaps the Devs left holes in. The gear and system isn't perfect but it would be unplayable without them.

The main issue is they just didn't listen to Beta feed back and rushed BFA. Class design is a extremely sore spot and they botched many traits having them be OP. If proper testing had been done and this expansion wasn't rushed with Class design being unfinished. Azerite would be perfect and a great addition.
it would greatly nerf some classes while others wouldn't feel it as hard.
They should disable Azerite traits.

In Legion, they had the foresight to disable legendaries in instanced PvP.
So I dont like azerite traits much in pvp, but honestly if they removed them tomorrow then aff locks would be 100% screwed. Our class already blows in pvp and the only thing saving us is triple stacking the drain trait or agony trait. So removing traits = aff 100% dead in pvp.

Cant just remove traits with out a ton of tuning.
11/12/2018 01:32 PMPosted by Arity
So I dont like azerite traits much in pvp, but honestly if they removed them tomorrow then aff locks would be 100% screwed. Our class already blows in pvp and the only thing saving us is triple stacking the drain trait or agony trait. So removing traits = aff 100% dead in pvp.

Cant just remove traits with out a ton of tuning.


This lines up with what I said here

11/12/2018 01:20 PMPosted by Abombanation
No because Azerite traits are literally the only thing giving any sort of character depth and options. Class design is very hollow and often in many areas missing. Azerite traits fill in gaps the Devs left holes in. The gear and system isn't perfect but it would be unplayable without them.

The main issue is they just didn't listen to Beta feed back and rushed BFA. Class design is a extremely sore spot and they botched many traits having them be OP. If proper testing had been done and this expansion wasn't rushed with Class design being unfinished. Azerite would be perfect and a great addition.
11/12/2018 01:32 PMPosted by Arity
Cant just remove traits with out a ton of tuning.

Yes. Blizzard would have to rebalance after removing Azerite traits from PvP, but it should make tuning a lot easier for them in the future. Furthermore, PvPers won't have to go into PvE to get their BiS traits.

Right now, what is Blizzard even balancing PvP around with all the various combinations of offensive and defensive Azerite traits? Are they assuming everyone has all their BiS traits?

What about the aff locks who haven't triple stacked the drain trait or agony trait? They shouldn't even bother PvPing?
Yes. Blizzard would have to rebalance after removing Azerite traits from PvP, but it should make tuning a lot easier for them.


First they will never remove traits and they shouldn't as they are good for build options. Think there should be even more interesting Traits added for build diversity.

Second even if you could remove them you can't do it first as some classes don't even function without them. You have to realize Azerite completes our class design.

I rather X be OP because of some trait and tune around that. Then X,Y,Z can't even Que because they don't have traits.
Do you guys not have phones?
I was lucky to get triple ID @370 ilvl - And I still hate aff being tuned against such a terrible trait is garbage design.

I run around praying not to die and then pray that I don't get interrupted when I finally get to 80-100 stacks of ID to kill someone.

8.1 changes this by nerfing ID allot with
The reduction to stack amount from 100 to 50 (kinda nice) Procing on agony
and then the damage change: Tested on my copied toon on live vs ptr

Live it hits for extra 27650 damage at 100 max stacks
8.1 it hits for extra 16650 damage at 50 max stacks

BUT nothing new to make up for it basically just leaves me like yup........
turn the traits off if this is how blizzard is going to balance them.
11/12/2018 02:02 PMPosted by Sefirosuwar
Live it hits for extra 27650 damage at 100 max stacks
8.1 it hits for extra 16650 damage at 50 max stacks


Ive seen 41k ticks of Drain LIfe which is stupid. Drain Life really shouldn't do more than 8k a tick.
11/12/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Abombanation
11/12/2018 02:02 PMPosted by Sefirosuwar
Live it hits for extra 27650 damage at 100 max stacks
8.1 it hits for extra 16650 damage at 50 max stacks


Ive seen 41k ticks of Drain LIfe which is stupid. Drain Life really shouldn't do more than 8k a tick.


I would be ok with drain only hitting for that , if dots were not complete garbage damage this expac and so easy to just dispel and ignore.

When I tested ID on ptr
I was seeing at max ID stacks - normal 13k hits and 27k crits on the target dummy.
11/12/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Sefirosuwar
if dots were not complete garbage damage this expac


Would like every spec that has bleeds or dots to get nerfed by 50%. Passive dmg isn't exciting or good for PvP. Rogues need some poisons gutted.

Think all Dot spells should also have a visual animation and see it traveling to your target. Locks are very boring to watch same with Spriest. Doesn't even look like they are fighting.

That is why Turbo and TSG are so fun to watch and some real PvP comps. They are in your face doing stuff. Gets the crowd excited. Glad that Pen and Paper were in the tourney to keep it exciting.
11/12/2018 02:46 PMPosted by Abombanation
That is why Turbo and TSG are so fun to watch and some real PvP comps. They are in your face doing stuff. Gets the crowd excited


What exactly does a warrior do that would be classified as fun or exciting?
11/12/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Orphanchild
11/12/2018 02:46 PMPosted by Abombanation
That is why Turbo and TSG are so fun to watch and some real PvP comps. They are in your face doing stuff. Gets the crowd excited


What exactly does a warrior do that would be classified as fun or exciting?

Relax, it's just Abombanation.
11/12/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Orphanchild
11/12/2018 02:46 PMPosted by Abombanation
That is why Turbo and TSG are so fun to watch and some real PvP comps. They are in your face doing stuff. Gets the crowd excited


What exactly does a warrior do that would be classified as fun or exciting?


Melee is always more exciting. Talking about real melee like Warriors, DK's. They are up in your face and PvPing. It's not boring like RMP or a lame rogue doing rogue things. The Turbo/TSG of the world you feel like the match could just end at any moment. Maybe they will just Delete someone with amazing PvP.

Where typically casters are delaying things and it's super boring. All ranged animations are also boring. When a Lock is in PvP just looks like he is standing there and everything they do is lame. It isn't fighting. Dotting stuff just isn't PvP.

I just find people who enjoy ranged are people that don't like action or fighting. They really aren't into PvP. However when the gates open for TSG the crowd is like ohhhhh #$%^ time to Yeet!!
1. Nerf PvE traits and trinkets in PvP by 90% across the board, all other stats works just fine.

2. Make PvP Traits better, more catered to improving diversity in comps.

3. Make PvP vendors

4. ???

5. Profit.

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