War Mode Evolution

War Mode and World PvP
I originally wrote this months ago and never posted it. I decided I should at least leave my War Mode feedback here since it was something I suggested and supported for years, but I don’t think it’s living up to its potential:

There are a lot of issues with War Mode. I think War Mode is the step in the right direction, but it needs a lot of changes to really reach its potential.

Currently War Mode has devolved into PvE with ganking and nothing more. I have war mode on on most of my characters. I have it on for the PvE bonus. I never go looking for PvP and I have no real reason or incentive to do so. Even just for the fun of PvP isn't really a thing that works here because people are just moving around to do WQs (at least the few who still bother with them). Even if you get into a fight, you're probably never going to see that person again after they've done their WQ and moved on.

I think the first important step in making this mode about PvP is to not only remove the PvE bonus, but remove access to world quests while in war mode entirely. World quests will be in the PvE mode where you do PvE things. In War Mode, there will be dynamic PvP events going off instead, drawing people into conflicts around the zone. This will also need to result in a change in how you access war mode, which I'll discuss later.

PvP Event/Quest Ideas:

Once PvE WQs are relegated to PvE mode, we will then replace that form of world content in war mode with PvP content. I think it would make sense to focus on changing this in BfA zones first and leaving lowbie zones alone until later if they decide to expand these ideas into low level zones. It may also make sense to separate max level players with leveling players since leveling players may be focusing on questing (PvE), unless we want to just disable all PvE questing entirely in this mode and then leveling players would be able to level via PvPing in war mode by making the events/quests in war mode give some XP (which I think might be the best way).

Essentially I think each zone would become sort of an ongoing endless warfront/battleground. Maybe thinking of them as an expansion on Ashran except you'd now be battling in the major zones of the expansion.

Events in each shard would fire, some maybe randomly, some major ones maybe at set intervals. These things would be announced and shown on the map to draw players to them.

Events would be things like the defense/attacking of a town/camp controlled by the other faction. Successfully defending/attacking it would result in a larger reward for people who participated (conquest/honor and maybe a loot box of some kind). Successfully attacking the town would also result in that town temporarily being taken over by the other faction, replacing its NPCs and giving you another graveyard.

If we separate PvE and PvP world content into these two modes, taking over even major cities temporarily in a shard would then be possible as you wouldn't have to worry about denying PvE access to NPCs/quests. If someone wants to go do PvE stuff, they swap back into PvE mode.

There could even be a major assault on a large town/city either from another one or having a bunch of boats from the other faction appear on one of the coasts from which the assault is launched. During these events there could also be resource gathering mini side events to result in more NPC troops or upgrading them in some way. Basically expanding on AV/warfronts and bringing it into the open world.

The air drop offs could be considered another already implemented type of mini event. They just need to show the drop on the world map and maybe give more time to get to it.

Other go defend/gather some resource events could be added.

Escort some NPC/caravan from point A to B events could be added. The attackers job obviously being to intercept and kill them before they arrive, the defenders succeeding if they make it.

We could also have something like one relic in each shard of each zone. Whoever holds it gains some significant buff. Killing that person drops the relic and rewards bonus honor/conquest. If the relic is not picked up again in 1 minute, it goes back to its default spot at some shrine added to each zone (to prevent it from being stuck in unreachable terrain or something). Controlling the relic and targeting whoever has it could add more strategy and fun both between events and during them. That person should also appear on the map and wouldn't be able to fly. It could also reduce their stealth level so if they stealth they can be spotted from further away without it completely blocking stealth mechanics like openers.

Having the major zones all essentially become these dynamic PvP areas in war mode would create an amazing WPvP experience and actually make you feel like you were in the middle of a war. Separating the PvE and PvP more completely is really an essential part of bringing WPvP to another level.
Improving Sharding:

First, accessing war mode would now be able to happen in any rested area of any zone. Unlike the way sharding works now, this mode should care more about population balance and essentially queue you and let you know it's searching for an appropriate shard and let you know when it's found one and moving you to it (maybe even having a pop up like entering a BG so you have to accept entering the shard to reduce the number of AFK players in a shard, it could also kick afk players out of a shard like in BGs). Or if there are no good ones available, allow you to enter an overflow shard temporarily as described below. They could even just let people queue to enter war mode of whatever zone they want from wherever they are and transport them to a rested area of some kind in that zone once they get in.

Exiting the mode entirely could be similar to leaving a BG. Click on a minimap icon or go to some war mode UI page and click leave. Leaving could automatically teleport you to an innkeeper in a PvE shard of the zone you're currently in.

With PvE questing removed from war mode, we will have eliminated one issue of people grouping up just to do some WQ, being sharded, then breaking up right after. Instead of doing sharding the way we do in PvE, you should have to queue to get into a shard as mentioned above. IE: if you join a group and that group is in a full shard, it won't just put you into it or abruptly force random people out to make room for you, it will let you know you're queued to get into that shard once there is room (possibly preferring to bring in a grouped person into a shard over other queued players). A large group could possibly group up outside of war mode then queue to enter together. If no shard is available where they'd fit, it can throw them into an overflow shard until more players are available.

Once war mode essentially becomes an open world battleground/war front type area I think there needs to be a bit more transparency and information about what shard you're in and who else is there. At the top of the screen in war mode (or at least on the map or on some new UI screen for war mode) it should tell you how many horde and alliance are in that shard. It should also tell you some number indicating what shard you are in.

I think telling people what shard they're in would be helpful in PvP so people can discuss some cool thing that happened in such and such a zone in such and such a shard at what time. It would also be interesting if you could access a menu and specifically queue into a specific shard. That way you could have multiple groups getting into the same shard or perhaps have some streamer say they're in such and such a shard and other people can try to get into the same one to join them or fight against them.

It may also be nice to have a scoreboard for each shard you can access that also shows every player in that shard and lines indicating which players are grouped in the same way it shows who's in a group when you get into an Overwatch game.

I'm not sure how large each shard should be in terms of how many players are allowed per shard. Since we'd be attracting players to specific events you'd have to keep in mind that if it was 40v40 or 80v80 or whatever that there'd be that many people potentially all in one place in that zone. They possibly could have different types of events only fire for larger shards or certain ones not fire or multiple smaller events fire at the same time with larger shards.

Overflow Shard:

When there aren't enough players to fill another shard with an equalish number of players, players should be put into what's considered an overflow shard and it should be indicated somewhere that they're in an overflow shard, waiting either for that shard to fill and become a regular shard or to be placed elsewhere. In an overflow shard, the significantly outnumbered faction could gain a buff similar to the old Wintergrasp buff that substantially increases their power. Potentially giving them something to do even when massively outnumbered and waiting for better balance.
Bring Mercenary Mode to War Mode:

I think in order to help balance populations when there just aren't enough players of one faction participating is to use merc mode as a way of adding more players for the other side. If more members of one faction are desperately needed to balances shards, have a thing built into the UI indicating you need more of X faction and allow people of the other faction to opt in as mercenaries to help out. They will be transformed into a member of the other faction, just as you are in BGs in merc mode and transported to one of the other factions inns or something as a starting point in a shard where they're needed.

This is basically the same logic as call to arms tank/healer in PvE. You need more members of another faction to balance the population, so let people opt in to balance them. You could even provide a small honor/conquest bonus buff incentive or something.

I also think it would be neat if you could just manually activate merc mode and join friends of the other faction in their groups and just play with them when you want to. Some of us have friends who play both factions. Being able to play with eachother via expanding on merc mode would be neat.

Rivalries and Allies

In order to help promote the old WPvP aspect of seeing familiar faces, which is another issue people complain frequently about, I think we could also add a feature like a rivalries and allies list. Basically, you could add people to this list that you'd like to see again in PvP, whether because you like playing with or against them or want revenge on them or whatever. People on your friends list could automatically be counted for this as well. When queuing into a Warmode zone, it could be weighted towards trying to put you into a shard with other people on your list. It wouldn't have to be a mutual thing and could ignore a connection via this list if the other person has the person who listed them on ignore. If people are mutually on each other's lists it could make it even more likely they end up together.

Maybe it could wait up to an extra minute to try to get you into a shard with someone on your list, or even add an option with a tolerance of some kind so you could basically let the system know you'd rather wait up to X amount of time longer to get into a shard with someone on your list than immediately into an open spot in another shard (assuming anyone on your list is online and in a shard of the zone you're trying to get into). You could even take it a bit further and let you give each person on the list some value so the higher numbers are preferred if multiple people on your list are in war mode zones but in different shards.

They could also add a feature to let you queue for any BfA zone instead of a specific one, which could make it more likely that the system could find you a shard of a zone with people on your list.

In order to make populating this list easier, there could be a recently seen players list under a new tab in the PvP UI so you could easily just click on names to add to the list without worrying about having to spell a name correctly or trying to click on people while they're near you. I believe Overwatch has a feature like this (the recently seen part, not the rivalries/allies). The list would include both people from your faction and the other that you had recently engaged in PvP with.

You could also add a symbol next to people names above their heads if they are on your list to draw your attention to them when they're around.
PvP Gear and Progression System

I think a major issue that will continue to discourage participation in any form of casual PvP, including WPvP, even if War Mode sees other changes to make it more interesting, is the current PvP progression system. Currently in order to be on an equal footing in any form of PvP, you'd have to either be very highly rated to get decent gear via PvP or, in most cases, you'd have to gear in PvE. That's just horrible. Many people enjoy casual PvP or have in the past, but don't want to spend a great deal of time in PvE PER CHARACTER in order to reach a current decent item level. PvE character progression philosophies have never made sense in PvP and do nothing but discourage participation and kill off WoW's PvP potential.

Many people would also happily PvP on an alt they want to PvP on that they have no interest in progressing in any other way. Those people in the current system simply will not play any casual PvP alts because of the gear barrier. The potential of casual PvP alts in increasing PvP participation I think is currently majorly overlooked. Some people may enjoy a spec in PvP that they have no interest in playing in PvE, but again, many people have no interest in rated PvP, so they just won't play that alt at all. They may also spend a lot of time on some other character in PvE and not have a ton of time to grind gear and constantly try to keep up with fishing for titanforges on multiple characters. It's a huge wasted opportunity for having fun in this game and also increasing PvP participation.

I think one solution would be to have your item level in PvP scaled based on either a new PvP progression system, or just the first 5-10 honor ranks (meaning once you hit the top one you would just always be at the ilvl cap in PvP on any character on your account). That way PvE ilvl progression and PvP ilvl progression would be completely separate. You could either have secondary stats be based on equipped gear and then scaled to your PvP ilvl in PvP, or add a new UI and just let people select a secondary stat balance in PvP.

Since that may be too far out from the current system, another alternative could be to put separate PvP and PvE item levels on gear. Gear from PvP, even casual PvP, would have a capped maximum PvP item level, allowing people to complete a PvP set from whatever type of PvP they enjoy that would be equal to all other PvP gear in PvP. The casual PvP gear could have a lower PvE item level, but still be equal in PvP. That would mean you'd still have to progress per-character in PvP, but could more easily form an equal PvP set even on an alt in a reasonable amount of time from whatever type of PvP content you enjoy and not be out-geared in PvP by raiders and high-rated PvPers.

In War Mode, now that it would be primarily PvP focused and not a place to do a lot of PvE, we could also just have people's item level in war mode in general set by the PvP progression system/pvp item level. That way in War Mode your item level when fighting players and NPCs would be the same.

I'd also like to just say something about templates as one of the PvP devs has posted memes about how players wanted everyone to be on an equal footing, then complained that it's an MMO and they want progression after getting templates. Templates were hated not just by the group of players that want some kind of PvP power progression, they were also hated by the people that wanted everyone on an equal footing. I really hope the devs understand that. Templates were hated by people on both sides of that aisle. I hated templates even though I am on the PvP should be primarily about skill not gear team. I hated them because they eliminated all customization. IE: my holy paladin was stuck with garbage crit in Legion PvP with no way of changing that because templates were fixed. In my suggested alternatives, you could still customize your stats.
TLDR:

  • Remove PvE world quests from War Mode entirely, replace with various PvP-centered world content. More specific suggestions included above.
  • Sharding change suggestions that essentially make it a bit more like a battleground, showing how many players from each faction are in that shard of that zone, allowing you to see a list of shards and queue into specific ones, afk removal similar to instanced PvP, overflow shards for when there's not enough players to fill a shard could include a buff for the disadvantaged faction similar to old wintergrasp etc.
  • Bringing Merc Mode to War Mode to help balance factions, including a call to arms style system that would offer an incentive to use merc mode to help balance the faction populations when needed.
  • Add a Rivalries and Allies list feature to make it more likely that you see familiar faces in WPvP.
  • Discussed how the current PvP progression system discourages participation in casual PvP and various suggestions on how it could be improved.
War mode works great on RP war mode shards. So called "PVE" world quests are actually PVP world quests, because you often have to kill the other faction at the world quest before doing it. Getting rid of world quests from war mode would also eliminate the enjoyable small scale PVP.

One of the best things about world PVP is the unpredictability. Short of removing CRZ entirely, randomly sharding works adequately. Letting people choose shards would likely unreasonably promote griefing, since griefers could then stalk specific victims from shard to shard.

Another great thing about war mode is the faction solidarity - you help out others of your faction, because the next day it may be you that needs the help. Merc mode would destroy this.

You can already see familiar faces by grouping with them. That said, removing CRZ and returning to server isolation might be good too.

PVP progression is fine. Keep up with your Conquest, and you can be competitive in PVP.

Edit: all that's needed is to balance the population on Normal war mode shards the way they are in RP war mode shards.
11/12/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Zenetta
Maybe thinking of them as an expansion on Ashran except you'd now be battling in the major zones of the expansion.


This is a wonderful idea. It would akin to the old zone objectives in Outland. Before xrealms became more popular, it was extremely daunting for anyone to want to do those objectives if you were outnumbered. Here is Halaa WPvP combat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH8cI_CALew

Now, how to replicate that magnitude of combat without the terrible lag is a huge question. That was incredibly fun. With things like Ashran and Tol Barad I feel like that's a nice thing to have IN ADDITION to world objectives like Halaa.

11/12/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Zenetta
Sharding change suggestions that essentially make it a bit more like a battleground, showing how many players from each faction are in that shard of that zone, allowing you to see a list of shards and queue into specific ones, afk removal similar to instanced PvP, overflow shards for when there's not enough players to fill a shard could include a buff for the disadvantaged faction similar to old wintergrasp etc.


I think the primary issue with Sharding is the servers just can't handle massive battles.

Only thing I can think of is managing it like a 40v40 at the least. I would love to have things way beyond 40v40 as we've nearly had 100v100 battles, but that just makes the server cry.

This particular issue occurs when anyone attacks a city, especially Org/SW. Those not in War Mode should be on an entirely different server support than those in War Mode. When you hit a city like that, everyone in that area is automatically dealing with any struggles the server will have with the overload of players.
Totally revamping the system might not be a bad idea, but I'll take some minor tweaks in the interim.

You're exactly right in that we need more incentive to WPVP. A quick fix could be the implementation of a system akin to that of DAOC (especially the dred servers).

When you kill a player, you get points. This could be conquest, or some other valuable currency. There would have to be timers put in place so as to avoid player camping. A player could be worth full points on first kill, half points on second, then put on a cool down before they're worth points again. Generating extra conquest points from a repeatable call to arms system is another possible solution.

Throwing in world objectives is fine, but the incentive for fighting other players should outweigh the urge to avoid players in order to complete the objective.
So in essence, Random BGs?
11/12/2018 04:55 PMPosted by Xazander
So in essence, Random BGs?


Not exactly. A BG has an objective, then it ends and you leave. This would be an ongoing battle with new events starting constantly as people joined and left. Somewhat like a Classic AV, except that also had a definite ending. The closest comparison would be Ashran, but a larger scale and with some new concepts.

Random BGs don't include changing things by taking and losing towns/cities. I also include ideas in how to see familiar faces more often, which is a common complaint with War Mode PvP vs. oldschool WPvP and isn't something BGs do either.

The queuing/sharding changes would make it more like a BG in terms of how you enter and leave, which I think would be a good thing since it would help balance the population in shards and deal with issues like randomly being pushed our of your shard for some unknown reason.

11/12/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Yarrow
War mode works great on RP war mode shards. So called "PVE" world quests are actually PVP world quests, because you often have to kill the other faction at the world quest before doing it. Getting rid of world quests from war mode would also eliminate the enjoyable small scale PVP.

One of the best things about world PVP is the unpredictability. Short of removing CRZ entirely, randomly sharding works adequately. Letting people choose shards would likely unreasonably promote griefing, since griefers could then stalk specific victims from shard to shard.


Even on non-RP shards there's ganking at world quests, but that's not meaningful WPvP in my experience. People gank when they outnumber you. Then they finish the quest and move on.

Removing PvE WQs and replacing it with PvP events that draw people in to PvP rather than to gank and do a PvE quest and leave would lead to more interesting PvP encounters and you'd all be there for PvP because it would be a PvP mode that's all about PvP rather than a PvE mode with a PvE bonus and some random side PvP.

11/12/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Yarrow
Another great thing about war mode is the faction solidarity - you help out others of your faction, because the next day it may be you that needs the help. Merc mode would destroy this.


No, it wouldn't. You'd be helping the team you're playing on at any given time. The entire mode would be PvP-centric now. You'd always be focusing on helping your team, regardless of what team you're playing for at that time.

Some people have alts of both factions and played on PvP servers in the past or in War Mode now. Some people use merc mode in BGs. You can be a team player without always playing on the same team.

It would also be optional. If you're hardcore one faction and never want to play the other, than just don't ever use merc mode.

They could have separate RP shards still and not enable merc mode in them also if that was an issue.

11/12/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Yarrow
Edit: all that's needed is to balance the population on Normal war mode shards the way they are in RP war mode shards.


You can not balance WPvP populations if one faction has a lot more players set to war mode than the other. You can't fill a shard with people who just are not there to begin with. Gnomes don't just materialize out of thin air when there's too many orcs in the zone.

Merc mode is the only reasonable way to effectively deal with PvP population balance when dealing with two factions that don't have equal numbers of players.

11/12/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Yarrow
PVP progression is fine. Keep up with your Conquest, and you can be competitive in PVP.


The ilvl of conq rewards is based on rating. Many people who enjoy PvP in this game may enjoy "casual" PvP and have zero interest in rated PvP at all. They then have to acquire their ilvl in PvE rather than PvP in order to compete on an equal footing in PvP.

PvP progression isn't fine, it's terrible.
11/12/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Zenetta
Currently War Mode has devolved into PvE with ganking and nothing more.


That sounds like WPvP to me.

11/12/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Zenetta
I have it on for the PvE bonus. I never go looking for PvP and I have no real reason or incentive to do so.


Then why did you want War Mode? Was it because you wanted to participate, or was it because you were on a PvP server and wanted to opt out? I understand if it is the latter, I don't hate on other people's play-style, but I'm not sure where you stand here.

11/12/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Zenetta
Even just for the fun of PvP isn't really a thing that works here because people are just moving around to do WQs (at least the few who still bother with them). Even if you get into a fight, you're probably never going to see that person again after they've done their WQ and moved on.


This is more of a feedback against sharding, not War Mode itself. I get it, but then again if sharding was removed I'd almost 100% have to pay for a transfer if I wanted to enjoy the game at all.

11/12/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Zenetta
Once PvE WQs are relegated to PvE mode, we will then replace that form of world content in war mode with PvP content.


This again just seems to be a misunderstanding of what World PvP is. It's not about putting a "PvP" objective to artificially create conflict. It's about just putting people in the world, giving them ability to attack each other, and then just letting things unfold naturally. I really don't feel any need to chase around PvP objectives on the world map, I can do Battlegrounds for that.

In fact a lot of your idea is basically trying to turn WPvP into a battleground. No thanks, we already have battlegrounds. I would like War Mode to actually feel like a different type of gameplay, not the same as an existing type.

11/12/2018 01:11 PMPosted by Zenetta
Overflow Shard:


These already exist, minus any UI indicators.

11/12/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Zenetta
It wouldn't have to be a mutual thing and could ignore a connection via this list if the other person has the person who listed them on ignore. If people are mutually on each other's lists it could make it even more likely they end up together.


I feel like this rivalry idea *has* to be mutual. You shouldn't be able to just chase some guy around if they don't actually consider you a rival, or if they don't care to see you over and over again on purpose.

The Allies part just sounds like... I mean it sounds like a friend's list or a community. You can do this with the current social options.

I'm also hating the concept of having to queue into an outer world zone. It's supposed to be an open world, not a bunch of instances. Sharding already makes it feel artificial enough, adding it as a menu item I teleport to just makes it worse.

11/12/2018 01:14 PMPosted by Zenetta
I think one solution would be to have your item level in PvP scaled based on either a new PvP progression system, or just the first 5-10 honor ranks (meaning once you hit the top one you would just always be at the ilvl cap in PvP on any character on your account).


So my character just... stops after a while? I'm just a hard cap? I don't get it. Do you maybe just mean that PvP gear system we had in WoD where each item had a PvE iLvL, and then scaled up in PvP? It was a little wonky, but that sounds like what you are talking about.

The closest comparison would be Ashran, but a larger scale and with some new concepts.


Ashran is also going to be a BG soon, and I'd rather not have it's design take over the entire world. Just leave WPvP's core design alone.

Even on non-RP shards there's ganking at world quests, but that's not meaningful WPvP in my experience. People gank when they outnumber you. Then they finish the quest and move on.


You're gauge of meaningful WPvP is not the same as others, I'd argue. There's also plenty of people who will just start camping objectives, turning things into a prolonged fight. I had that happen yesterday at the Tortollon WQ. It's not a PvP objective, it's just a Point of Interest that turns into a WPvP blood bath. That's the fun of WPvP to me.

Merc mode is the only reasonable way to effectively deal with PvP population balance when dealing with two factions that don't have equal numbers of players.


Merc mode hasn't even properly balanced the BG queues, why is going to be any better for WM? Why are enough Horde going to initially opt into being the underdog? A few might, but not enough to balance anything.
That sounds like WPvP to me.


If you have a really low standard for WPvP's potential I suppose. Other games like GW2 or others have very large WPvP areas and the idea is larger scale PvP with an ongoing battle rather than a BG where you have an objective, complete it and leave.

Then why did you want War Mode? Was it because you wanted to participate, or was it because you were on a PvP server and wanted to opt out? I understand if it is the latter, I don't hate on other people's play-style, but I'm not sure where you stand here.


I both argued in favor of people being able to opt out when they wanted to as well as the benefits that separating the modes would have in being able to add more interesting PvP-centric content to the world in the PvP mode.

When you separate the modes you no longer have to worry about how things like taking over towns or major PvP objectives in the world would have on players just trying to do PvE content.

In fact a lot of your idea is basically trying to turn WPvP into a battleground. No thanks, we already have battlegrounds. I would like War Mode to actually feel like a different type of gameplay, not the same as an existing type.


This is just a misunderstanding of it and how it would work.

It wouldn't feel like just another BG.

These already exist, minus any UI indicators.


Maybe, but if so I'd say there's more "overflow shards" than regular shards. When I was playing 90% of the time I hardly ever saw any alliance in any shard I was in. Every once in a rare while I'd be in an alliance heavy shard.

Also, it just fits into the system I'm suggesting better since better population balance is a huge component of it.

Transparency in sharding is also better.

There's also no WG style buff for the underdog faction.

11/13/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Balanor
Merc mode hasn't even properly balanced the BG queues, why is going to be any better for WM? Why are enough Horde going to initially opt into being the underdog? A few might, but not enough to balance anything.


Merc mode is hidden away at NPCs in limited locations. Some people don't even know that it exists and it is not advertised anywhere in game that I've ever seen to help increase awareness of its existence. If it were a built in part of the UI it would have a stronger impact on existing BG queue times.

The system I'm suggesting would be an expansion on it, built into the UI and encourage the overpopulated faction to help balance the population in PvP shards.
I would for sure like some PVP specific world quests that involve getting kills. However I don't feel like they should remove any of the current WQ content as well.
11/14/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Zenetta
If you have a really low standard for WPvP's potential I suppose. Other games like GW2 or others have very large WPvP areas and the idea is larger scale PvP with an ongoing battle rather than a BG where you have an objective, complete it and leave.


You call it standards, I call it preference. If I want GW2 style gameplay, I'll play GW2. I don't want WPvP to turn into something that's much bigger than dynamic PVP conflicts that occur in a PvE environment. That's what I experienced when the game started, and it's what I'd like to continue. There are other avenues for dedicated PvP gameplay in the form of Battlegrounds and Arenas.

11/14/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Zenetta
I both argued in favor of people being able to opt out when they wanted to as well as the benefits that separating the modes would have in being able to add more interesting PvP-centric content to the world in the PvP mode.

When you separate the modes you no longer have to worry about how things like taking over towns or major PvP objectives in the world would have on players just trying to do PvE content.


I've been in support of this same system as well, but I'm more questioning why you are invested in a gameplay format that you don't seem to enjoy (stating you only have it on for the PvE bonus). Instead of trying to improve an existing gameplay mode, you seem to want to change 90% of what it is, kind of ignoring that many people who are enjoying War Mode aren't looking for many of those changes.

11/14/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Zenetta
This is just a misunderstanding of it and how it would work.

It wouldn't feel like just another BG.


I'm not sure where that misunderstanding is. World PvP has largely been an objective-less melee of random conflicts for 14 years, minus an occasional "PvP Zone" or a tower that gave a small buff plopped in a few zones in TBC. Battlegrounds have been the space for structured, objective based PvP with much stricter balancing mechanics. World PvP has been an un-instanced experience you just sort of walk into. You've been describing a system that uses shards as practical battleground instances with queues and the ability to drop out with 2 clicks of a mouse button.

So ultimately, to me, you want to turn World PvP into a large-scale battleground format. It might look more like an Ashran style battleground, but still a battleground.

11/14/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Zenetta


There's also no WG style buff for the underdog faction.


I personally didn't care for that buff. I could 1-shot one guy while 10 more people just mowed me down in the next few seconds. That buff was a band-aid on a wound that needed stitches. I'm not a fan of it.

11/14/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Zenetta
Merc mode is hidden away at NPCs in limited locations. Some people don't even know that it exists and it is not advertised anywhere in game that I've ever seen to help increase awareness of its existence. If it were a built in part of the UI it would have a stronger impact on existing BG queue times.

The system I'm suggesting would be an expansion on it, built into the UI and encourage the overpopulated faction to help balance the population in PvP shards.


While I agree that Merc mode is not positioned well, I still don't see how putting into WPvP works. Are you also offering some bonus to people who use Merc mode? The inherent benefit of a Horde player using merc mode in a BG is shorter queues. What do they get for opting into Merc mode in WPvP?

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