Racial Strength

Story Forum
11/13/2018 12:58 PMPosted by Reallyhappy
11/13/2018 10:32 AMPosted by Totemfiend
Which is funny considering their night elf cousins are all about agility at the cost of strength. Probably why they were able to embarass grom so bad. Can't kill what you can't hit! Like that orc struggling to land a blow on the Night elf in the vanilla cinematic.

You know how hard it is to shoot a bow? That stuff requires real strength.

11/13/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Galenorn
I think that's part of the intention, is that Night Elves are kind of the best of both worlds. The physical prowess of the Trolls, combined with the magical prowess of the High/Blood Elves (albeit with nature and divine magic, instead of arcane).

Actual presentation, on the other hand, is another matter entirely...


Not quite, Night Elves lack the 2 main things that make trolls physical monsters, thier long limbs and regeneration. A troll will Outrange a night elf, can weild bigger bows and longer spears, and fight longer, but are less magicly gifted. Night Elves also lack heavy armor the other elves wear, at least on a large enough scale to equip troops with them. Night Elves were never intended to be the best of both worlds, they were intended to excel at their niche, and be decent at other things, like basically every other race in the game, with some glaring issues. They struggle when fighting a numerically superior foe, or when forced out of the forest. It's why the War of the Shifting Sands was extremely devastating to them.


We don't really know if the bows Night elves use are as hard to use as normal ones. That said I'm only saying that Night elves are generally weaker than other races, but far more agile as a result. That isn't to say they aren't strong enough to fire a bow multiple times or w/e.

There's a reason Night elves favor fighting in forest and prefer ambushes when it comes to battles. It being due to the fact that they don't have the same strength as some of the other races, whilst these tactics play to their own.
11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Totemfiend
That said I'm only saying that Night elves are generally weaker than other races, but far more agile as a result.

Even agility requires a decent amount of strength. You need the proper musculature and physique to do all that jumping, dodging, and flipping. Just not the 'roided out, meat-head kind of strength.

You see the same kind of division in Trolls. Zandalari are more brute strength, able to punch through plate armor. And no one would accuse the Jungle Trolls of being physically weak, but they use that strength in a similar way to the Night Elves: agility, and ambushes.
Zandalari trolls can punch through plate? Any examples of that? I assumed they'd have the same amount of strength that a Darkspear troll would.

Actually now I'm wondering where all of the allied races would fit into this, like I'd imagine Lightforged would be stronger than regular draenei.

Edit: Also, looking at this topic

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766906550

The 7th poster in this topic notes that these stats never change, even with stat squishes. so these numbers are likely to be as close to canon as can be.
It's just so hard to know how strong a race is just by looking at them, because WoW origins are so weird. For example, to look at them you'd think an Orc could instantly crush a human, even one of the beefy WoW humans. The Warcraft film really drove this point home. But WoW humans are derived from space robots by way of giant vkings. So I dunno - maybe they have the muscle density of a chimpanzee. Gnomes too, for that matter.

From a story perspective, I think we can safely say that a typical orc is considerably stronger than a typical human, but that's about it.
11/13/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Totemfiend
Zandalari trolls can punch through plate? Any examples of that? I assumed they'd have the same amount of strength that a Darkspear troll would.


In his book, Vol'jin is able to punch right through plate armour. Darkspear trolls are supposed to be incredibly strong.

I really wouldn't take stat weights seriously. It's been made very clear in the narrative that Tauren, for example, are stronger than Orcs (c.f. Cairne and Garrosh).
11/13/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Totemfiend
Zandalari trolls can punch through plate? Any examples of that?

It was in the Vol'jin novel. Something about them being able to pierce a breastplate with only their thumbs.
11/13/2018 04:49 PMPosted by Carmageddon
11/13/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Totemfiend
Zandalari trolls can punch through plate? Any examples of that? I assumed they'd have the same amount of strength that a Darkspear troll would.


In his book, Vol'jin is able to punch right through plate armour. Darkspear trolls are supposed to be incredibly strong.

I really wouldn't take stat weights seriously. It's been made very clear in the narrative that Tauren, for example, are stronger than Orcs (c.f. Cairne and Garrosh).

Humanity doesn't use their bodies at itheir full strength do to the fact we will often end up seriously hurting ourselves. Trolls are both bigger and don't need to worry about causing permanent damage to their bodies as much as humans.
11/13/2018 04:52 PMPosted by Galenorn
11/13/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Totemfiend
Zandalari trolls can punch through plate? Any examples of that?

It was in the Vol'jin novel. Something about them being able to pierce a breastplate with only their thumbs.


That's pretty awesome! Are they only able to pierce it with their thumbs (like super strong and sharp thumb nails?) or is it more like they only need to use their thumbs to pierce it but could do more damage with a full on punch/more fingers?

@Carmaggedon: Normally I'd agree, but so far these stats in particular seem to be pretty consistent through lore. For example it supports the idea that Tauren are stronger than Orcs.
Personally I’d rank racial strength as such

1. Tauren (Mulgore and Highmountain)
2. Green orcs (by virtue of demon blood)
3. Worgen/Zandalari/Mag’har
4. Dwarves (Dark Iron and Bronzebeard)/Lightforged Draenei
5. Draenei/Darkspear Trolls/Kul’Tiran-Drust Humans
6. Baseline Humans/Forsaken
7. Night Elves
8. Blood Elves/Void Elves
9. Nightborne
10. Goblins
11. Gnomes
11/13/2018 12:58 PMPosted by Reallyhappy

Not quite, Night Elves lack the 2 main things that make trolls physical monsters, thier long limbs and regeneration. A troll will Outrange a night elf, can weild bigger bows and longer spears, and fight longer, but are less magicly gifted. Night Elves also lack heavy armor the other elves wear, at least on a large enough scale to equip troops with them. Night Elves were never intended to be the best of both worlds, they were intended to excel at their niche, and be decent at other things, like basically every other race in the game, with some glaring issues. They struggle when fighting a numerically superior foe, or when forced out of the forest. It's why the War of the Shifting Sands was extremely devastating to them.


Fighting those bugs would have been devastating to any of the races that might have gone up against them. None of the Kalimdor Horde races would have dealt well with that kind of dune terrain and monsters that could pretty much swim in it. Even the dragons were hard-pressed.
11/13/2018 06:41 PMPosted by Drahliana
11/13/2018 12:58 PMPosted by Reallyhappy

Not quite, Night Elves lack the 2 main things that make trolls physical monsters, thier long limbs and regeneration. A troll will Outrange a night elf, can weild bigger bows and longer spears, and fight longer, but are less magicly gifted. Night Elves also lack heavy armor the other elves wear, at least on a large enough scale to equip troops with them. Night Elves were never intended to be the best of both worlds, they were intended to excel at their niche, and be decent at other things, like basically every other race in the game, with some glaring issues. They struggle when fighting a numerically superior foe, or when forced out of the forest. It's why the War of the Shifting Sands was extremely devastating to them.


Fighting those bugs would have been devastating to any of the races that might have gone up against them. None of the Kalimdor Horde races would have dealt well with that kind of dune terrain and monsters that could pretty much swim in it. Even the dragons were hard-pressed.

I mean the Trolls fought the Larger Aqir, but they were a world wide empire at the time. It just that Shifting Sands was the best example that wouldn't get me lynched by ravenous fans. It also makes sense to me the night elves would lose to a combined horde in a large war without support of the rest of the alliance, their simply out numbered to an unreasonable extent. They also don't have the best track record outside the forest in general.

Night Elves aren't the be all end all of Azerothian militaries, they work better as a hit and run force and struggle in prolonged combat. When on the defensive against a single nations military they will likely be able to make it so their foes will find it impossible to continue the war do to taking to much attrition. Against a far Larger Nation that can afford taking such heavy losses, or when launching their own offensive outside the forest is were they struggle.
Let's see...

You have things like Tauren and Ogres at the top end of the humanoid scale. Just giant slabs of beef. Unquestionably the powerhouses of the setting.

Then you have the slightly smaller slabs of meat, Orcs, and Draenei. Maybe even Worgen due to werewolf strength. Those beefier trolls probably belong up here too.

Then you have your stronger then humans category of Tall Elves, Trolls, Dwarves, Pandas, Fat Humans. Basically all the races built like NFL players or Shaquille O'Neal.

Then you have regular old Humans and Dead Humans. Maybe Forsaken have zombie strength, but they are never really portrayed that way from what I've seen.

Then you have your Short Elves just under the Human range. So pretty, so graceful!

Then you got the wee folk who are only strong when it is comically appropriate. Like when you need one of them to run off carrying a dozen hundred pound bombs over their head while cackling in glee because it's funny.
I'd imagen dwarves wouldn't rival a tauren in sheer strength, but hold their own against an orc. Then again this is all subjective because in wow a character will be a strong as the situation requires them to be for plot progression.

I.E. the fight of Yrel vs Blackhand comes to mind. The mate got rekt, yet in full plate manages to swim to safety lol.
11/14/2018 03:50 AMPosted by Thormill
I'd imagen dwarves wouldn't rival a tauren in sheer strength, but hold their own against an orc. Then again this is all subjective because in wow a character will be a strong as the situation requires them to be for plot progression.

I.E. the fight of Yrel vs Blackhand comes to mind. The mate got rekt, yet in full plate manages to swim to safety lol.


From what I understand Dwarves are built like chimps. Except they have way more muscles density + way more muscle in general. They have so much muscle density in fact that they're supposed to have trouble swimming and their armies can't march as long as others as carrying the weight in such small bodies tires them quickly. Will try to find a source later.
11/14/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Totemfiend
11/14/2018 03:50 AMPosted by Thormill
I'd imagen dwarves wouldn't rival a tauren in sheer strength, but hold their own against an orc. Then again this is all subjective because in wow a character will be a strong as the situation requires them to be for plot progression.

I.E. the fight of Yrel vs Blackhand comes to mind. The mate got rekt, yet in full plate manages to swim to safety lol.


From what I understand Dwarves are built like chimps. Except they have way more muscles density + way more muscle in general. They have so much muscle density in fact that they're supposed to have trouble swimming and their armies can't march as long as others as carrying the weight in such small bodies tires them quickly. Will try to find a source later.


The idea of dwarves not being able to sustain a march is just laughable to me.
ya usually dwarves are portrayed as being slow but able to mainatin a march at a steady pace loooooong after humans have collapsed from exhaustion.
11/14/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Throren
ya usually dwarves are portrayed as being slow but able to mainatin a march at a steady pace loooooong after humans have collapsed from exhaustion.

The only terrains i see a dwarf haing problems marching through are swamp and desert. Mostly Swamp, as they can't wade as well, and they both are denser then humans and wear heavy armor, plus any gunpowder will be ruined by the dampness.
11/13/2018 05:43 PMPosted by Totemfiend
11/13/2018 04:52 PMPosted by Galenorn
...
It was in the Vol'jin novel. Something about them being able to pierce a breastplate with only their thumbs.


That's pretty awesome! Are they only able to pierce it with their thumbs (like super strong and sharp thumb nails?) or is it more like they only need to use their thumbs to pierce it but could do more damage with a full on punch/more fingers?

The latter I would say. Bearing in mind it's been a few years since I read the novel.

Having said that, if I'm remembering right, the part Carm was talking about where Vol'jin could punch through armor was from his super special monk training as he recovered at the monastery. Implying it's not something your average Jungle Troll could do.
https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warrior_arms?data_view=races
Gnomes are stronger than orcs and tauren confirmed.
11/13/2018 05:43 PMPosted by Totemfiend


That's pretty awesome! Are they only able to pierce it with their thumbs (like super strong and sharp thumb nails?) or is it more like they only need to use their thumbs to pierce it but could do more damage with a full on punch/more fingers?


I read the book a few months ago so it's fairly fresh in my mind.

Vol'jin was wearing a steel breastplate forged by the Shado'pan. A Zandalari soldier grabbed Vol'jin, lifted him up over his head, and started to squeeze the breastplate until his thumbs tore through the metal and penetrated Vol'jin's sides, causing him to bleed.

So it wasn't a punch. It was a slow crushing motion that pushed the warrior's thumb through the breastplate.

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