What Classes not to bring to M+, & Y?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Just curious, from everyone perspective going into last week my raider.io was 1510, I couldn't buy my way into a higher key in pugs at all. My score unchanged sadly I kept getting the same response from most player. Frost DKs don't bring anything to the group, so I just wanted to ask the community, what classes/spec would you not bring to a mythic+ and why? Please just keep it to 1-2 classes and use good examples, I'm hoping the clowns in charge at blizzard might take notice to a positive feedback on the negatives of classes and maybe, but most likely not help out and hand out some changes to bring a better balance to the m+ scene.
I'm going to start off picking on my self.

I personally hate to admit it, but I wouldn't bring DKs outside of AD and KR in high M+s, They bring very little to the group besides damage that their damage is cooldown based as frost especially. They have no CC, no aoe stun to help with g'huuns and they close their buffs a long time ago. If frost dks in particular had Icy Talons still which was a haste buff, or at least horn of winter which was the same as battle shout I think they would be able to edge their way into groups a little more. But as is, there is very few groups running them and with good reason.
Survival hunters.
I was looking into this today, and I focused primarily on 20+ keys done in time which is a very small % of the population, but it does tell you what the best players who basically play this game for a living are doing:

First thing I noticed, all 20+ keys had a Rogue - So you probably want a Rogue. Assassination or Subtlety.

Then you probably want a Ranged DPS class: I saw Mages (Fire and Frost), BM Hunter, Boomkin, Warlock, and even an Ele Shaman. Shadow Priests might be one you want to avoid here.

Tank-wise - Every group I looked at had Monk or Death Knight. So you probably don't want DH, Paladin, or Warrior tank if you want to do 20+ keys. Although, I REALLY like how many interrupts that Paladin shield can get for a dungeon like Shrine.

As for healers: Monk, Druid, Disc Priest, and Paladin were there. The one class that seems to be avoided is Shaman, but I think Holy Priests are in the same boat.

The last slot I considered a "flex" slot, but really... It's Demon Hunter 90% of the time. But this is where I saw Frost DK, WW Monk, Mage, or even a 2nd Rogue. So it looks like this leaves out a lot of specs, but I would imagine any DPS spec could fit in this slot if the player is good enough - but it may need potent AoE burst to be highly efficient depending on the rest of the DPS composition.

So if we're talking 1-2 classes to avoid based on what the most experienced players are playing.... Probably Warrior and Shaman. I think both deserve some buffs and in 8.1 it seems like it's already being addressed.
11/13/2018 03:22 PMPosted by Jermaine
I was looking into this today, and I focused primarily on 20+ keys done in time which is a very small % of the population, but it does tell you what the best players who basically play this game for a living are doing:

First thing I noticed, all 20+ keys had a Rogue - So you probably want a Rogue. Assassination or Subtlety.

Then you probably want a Ranged DPS class: I saw Mages (Fire and Frost), BM Hunter, Boomkin, Warlock, and even an Ele Shaman. Shadow Priests might be one you want to avoid here.

Tank-wise - Every group I looked at had Monk or Death Knight. So you probably don't want DH, Paladin, or Warrior tank if you want to do 20+ keys. Although, I REALLY like how many interrupts that Paladin shield can get for a dungeon like Shrine.

As for healers: Monk, Druid, Disc Priest, and Paladin were there. The one class that seems to be avoided is Shaman, but I think Holy Priests are in the same boat.

The last slot I considered a "flex" slot, but really... It's Demon Hunter 90% of the time. But this is where I saw Frost DK, WW Monk, Mage, or even a 2nd Rogue. So it looks like this leaves out a lot of specs, but I would imagine any DPS spec could fit in this slot if the player is good enough - but it may need potent AoE burst to be highly efficient depending on the rest of the DPS composition.

So if we're talking 1-2 classes to avoid based on what the most experienced players are playing.... Probably Warrior and Shaman. I think both deserve some buffs and in 8.1 it seems like it's already being addressed.


Pretty accurate conclusions. But you should remember, these are the 1% of the 1% of coordinated M+ teams. They min/max everything and utilize each spec to its potential. If you want to push keys as high as possible, you would do the same.

As much as it sounds easy to balance classes on paper, there will always be classes that excel in certain areas over others due to their unique abilities.

That said, generally my buddies and I shy away from Shamans in general and feral druids.
DPS-wise, I'm biased but shadowpriests are what you want to avoid. They bring neglible utility to the group -- Mass dispel which is on a 45s CD doesn't mean much and it's a class-specific skill, so a discipline/holy priest can easily handle this should it be needed. Additionally, everyone else does better aoe damage or single target than they do.
11/13/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Fendris
DPS-wise, I'm biased but shadowpriests are what you want to avoid. They bring neglible utility to the group -- Mass dispel which is on a 45s CD doesn't mean much and it's a class-specific skill, so a discipline/holy priest can easily handle this should it be needed. Additionally, everyone else does better aoe damage or single target than they do.


This is not really true any more, shadow priest AOE is significantly improved since legion, they are as good as any other ranged class for AOE. They just lack in utility.

A boomkin does the same damage but also has treants, a mage does the same damage but has slows+bloodlust, shadow has nothing remotely comparable. Affliction warlocks have significantly worse AOE than Shadow Priests but still get taken to M+ more often because of the utility they bring.

And the reality is that in dungeons you are really never going to struggle to find DPS, if you want a particular class, you are probably going to get it within 5 minutes or so, there's no reason at all to take a class that isn't as good.

The trick is though, that almost every class has a meta spec that is in demand in M+. I stopped tanking on this druid and started running M+ as Balance or Resto because that was the way I could contribute best. If you main a priest you basically should spec Disc. If you play a Hunter you should spec BM rather than complain that nobody will take you as survival.

Kinda sucks if you're a warrior or a shaman though.
The struggle is real out here for a pimp
"This is not really true any more, shadow priest AOE is significantly improved since legion, they are as good as any other ranged class for AOE. They just lack in utility."

This isn't true at all. Mind sear is still awful, so all your AoE is coming from either multi-dotting or shadow crash (which is a cooldown). Shadow priest definitely lags FAR behind other classes like ele shaman and mage when it comes to aoe. You also get some AoE from voidform, but again, long cooldown, and not that dramatic.
Yeah um no. Shadowpriests are in garbage tier right there with kitty druids but at least they have battle rezzes and crowd control.

Blizzard doesn't even know what theyre doing with shadow, that's why most of us previous shadow priests have rerolled discipline or quit priesting
11/13/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Aewendil
11/13/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Fendris
DPS-wise, I'm biased but shadowpriests are what you want to avoid. They bring neglible utility to the group -- Mass dispel which is on a 45s CD doesn't mean much and it's a class-specific skill, so a discipline/holy priest can easily handle this should it be needed. Additionally, everyone else does better aoe damage or single target than they do.


This is not really true any more, shadow priest AOE is significantly improved since legion, they are as good as any other ranged class for AOE. They just lack in utility.

A boomkin does the same damage but also has treants, a mage does the same damage but has slows+bloodlust, shadow has nothing remotely comparable. Affliction warlocks have significantly worse AOE than Shadow Priests but still get taken to M+ more often because of the utility they bring.

And the reality is that in dungeons you are really never going to struggle to find DPS, if you want a particular class, you are probably going to get it within 5 minutes or so, there's no reason at all to take a class that isn't as good.

The trick is though, that almost every class has a meta spec that is in demand in M+. I stopped tanking on this druid and started running M+ as Balance or Resto because that was the way I could contribute best. If you main a priest you basically should spec Disc. If you play a Hunter you should spec BM rather than complain that nobody will take you as survival.

Kinda sucks if you're a warrior or a shaman though.


Health stones and a short cooldown aoe stun. That said, Warlocks really need either burst aoe, or better burst single target without using a 3 minute cooldown. I should be able to kill orbs as easily as any mage.
Orbs a real issue affecting most casters, the affix would be more balanced if the orbs just had 1 health. The challenge should be in target switching, not in choosing a class that kill them in a global and being screwed if your class can't.
11/13/2018 11:55 PMPosted by Aewendil
Orbs a real issue affecting most casters, the affix would be more balanced if the orbs just had 1 health. The challenge should be in target switching, not in choosing a class that kill them in a global and being screwed if your class can't.

that's where bm hunter is so great, they can target swap orbs but then go back to a main target and start to burst it. (bm is technically a caster but really it does everything)
I would not bring any shaman dps (not saying they cant be good, but usually they just get killed by defensive-need abilities) and shadow priest.

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