i Absolutely despise Raider.io

General Discussion
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 Next
10/11/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Raynnari
But it really isn't.


An add-on that generates an arbitrary "score" that players then demand you meet an impossible high "score" before they'll even let you into the group...

Yep, sounds exactly like what happened when Gearscore was a thing.
10/11/2018 12:34 PMPosted by Aeaweian

Edit: i just completed a 8 underot and made timer, im going to take everyones advice and complete runs i failed in the early expansion. i still hate the add-on. if it seems like im whining sorry, its not my intention. guess ill just run dungeons i dont need to boost the number. thank you everyone for your (mostly) constructive feedback. i appreciate the help and some tough love


This is so wholesome, the community needs more people like you op.
Raider.io is a blessing, not a curse. It would be impossible to find groups capable of completing +8 or higher keys in time without it, and no, ilvl does not tell me if you have prior experience running this content. If I'm building a group and already have a tank on hand, yes I do see 20+ DPS applicants, and yes I do turn away people with low io scores. Why shouldn't I? Experience has taught me that people with only a +3 on that dungeon are very unlikely to know the mechanics in that dungeon and help me push my key. Even without raider.io, we would still be discriminating in class selection regardless, all this does is help me actually push a key so LFG doesn't result in wipe after wipe.

You can always make friends with a tank, or play tank yourself, and push your key. I guarantee you'll find .io to be essential and you'll have no problem putting together a decent group.
10/11/2018 02:44 PMPosted by Degas
10/11/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Raynnari
But it really isn't.


An add-on that generates an arbitrary "score" that players then demand you meet an impossible high "score" before they'll even let you into the group...

Yep, sounds exactly like what happened when Gearscore was a thing.


Sounds like you are not sure what the word arbitrary means. You may want to look it up before using it again.

Raider.IO is not a perfect system, but it is the best we have to work with. I suppose you could always just invite people to the group based on item level, since that is a much better way of choosing folks.... /s
>cant do mythic cus u have a job

OMEGALUL
make your own group if u dont want to use IO, if your going to que to use other peoples keys, then take off your princess dress because it will get you nowhere.

your group = your rules
their group = not your rules

i would love for you to make groups w/o IO and tell me how they go (1 good experience means nothing, lets see the average after 10 keys or so w/o a system to measure the skill u invite)
10/11/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Yukiel
>cant do mythic cus u have a job

OMEGALUL


yes, this has been made abundantly clear from the 20 others who said it, that it has no factor.

and thank you for the twitch cringe.
10/11/2018 02:55 PMPosted by Zenjí
Sounds like you are not sure what the word arbitrary means. You may want to look it up before using it again.

Raider.IO is not a perfect system, but it is the best we have to work with. I suppose you could always just invite people to the group based on item level, since that is a much better way of choosing folks.... /s


arbitrary
adjective
1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion:
an arbitrary decision.
2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical:
an arbitrary government.

I'm using #1 here. The "score" that's being generated by this add-on (and then posted on a website) is then judged by the group leader without any factor other than their belief of what is an "acceptable score".

This is the EXACT same behavior that happened when Gearscore was a thing during Wrath.

Gearscore - calculated a score based on gear ilvl, gems, and enchants. Group Leaders then set a required score level before inviting you to the group.

Raider.io - calculates a score based on Mythic+ clear times. Group Leaders then set a required score level before inviting you to the group.

In both cases, group leaders will sometimes ask for impossibly high scores for the content they're doing, effectively rejecting anyone who's incapable of just carrying the group leader through the content.

It's this mentality that makes me NEVER want to PUG any content that can't be done with LFD/LFR. I'll just ask my guild for the help instead 'cuz at least they are willing to help out and teach me the boss mechanics and get me the gear necessary to start raiding.
10/11/2018 12:42 PMPosted by Aeaweian
10/11/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Kuraga
You kill 4's, that's why people don't want to play with you


i dont know what this means sorry.


EXACTLY.
All of the people the whine and complain about raider.io have bad scores and deplete most of their runs.
10/11/2018 03:22 PMPosted by Degas
10/11/2018 02:55 PMPosted by Zenjí
Sounds like you are not sure what the word arbitrary means. You may want to look it up before using it again.

Raider.IO is not a perfect system, but it is the best we have to work with. I suppose you could always just invite people to the group based on item level, since that is a much better way of choosing folks.... /s


arbitrary
adjective
1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion:
an arbitrary decision.
2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical:
an arbitrary government.

I'm using #1 here. The "score" that's being generated by this add-on (and then posted on a website) is then judged by the group leader without any factor other than their belief of what is an "acceptable score".

This is the EXACT same behavior that happened when Gearscore was a thing during Wrath.

Gearscore - calculated a score based on gear ilvl, gems, and enchants. Group Leaders then set a required score level before inviting you to the group.

Raider.io - calculates a score based on Mythic+ clear times. Group Leaders then set a required score level before inviting you to the group.

In both cases, group leaders will sometimes ask for impossibly high scores for the content they're doing, effectively rejecting anyone who's incapable of just carrying the group leader through the content.

It's this mentality that makes me NEVER want to PUG any content that can't be done with LFD/LFR. I'll just ask my guild for the help instead 'cuz at least they are willing to help out and teach me the boss mechanics and get me the gear necessary to start raiding.


This isn't exactly accurate, although you are entirely entitled to your opinion on whether you prefer to use raider.io. The raider.io addon also reports the highest key you have successfully completed for the specific dungeon in question, which I find to be almost as indicative as the total score itself. And for those who care, the website profile pages actually report all successfully completed runs that have logged, so it's possible to see your overall run history if the runs were entered into a realm leaderboard. Obviously these aren't perfect tools, but they are more likely than not to predict who the best party candidates are. Chances are when you've been declined for an invite, there were others who wanted in that group with more M+ experience. How is evaluating players on prior performance arbitrary? It seems fair and equitable to me, especially when there is high DPS supply compared to demand.
10/11/2018 02:44 PMPosted by Degas
10/11/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Raynnari
But it really isn't.


An add-on that generates an arbitrary "score" that players then demand you meet an impossible high "score" before they'll even let you into the group...

Yep, sounds exactly like what happened when Gearscore was a thing.


If the requirements are impossibly high then how are these groups able to repeatedly find people to invite and push their keys?
10/11/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Bowsa
This isn't exactly accurate, although you are entirely entitled to your opinion on whether you prefer to use raider.io. The raider.io addon also reports the highest key you have successfully completed for the specific dungeon in question, which I find to be almost as indicative as the total score itself. And for those who care, the website profile pages actually report all successfully completed runs that have logged, so it's possible to see your overall run history if the runs were entered into a realm leaderboard. Obviously these aren't perfect tools, but they are more likely than not to predict who the best party candidates are. Chances are when you've been declined for an invite, there were others who wanted in that group with more M+ experience. How is evaluating players on prior performance arbitrary? It seems fair and equitable to me, especially when there is high DPS supply compared to demand.


The metrics being measured are different, but the mentality and behavior are the same.

Honestly, I don't care what metric you want to use as I already stated I refuse to use the LFG to PUG groups and only run Mythics/Raids with my guild.

I'm merely voicing my opinion that Raider.io is accomplishing the exact same goals and promoting the exact same behavior that Gearscore did. Nothing more. Nothing less.

10/11/2018 03:35 PMPosted by Osirus
If the requirements are impossibly high then how are these groups able to repeatedly find people to invite and push their keys?


Not all group leaders set impossibly high scores for their group. I'm sure there are plenty of those who are more reasonable individuals. That doesn't mean there aren't those out there abusing another scoring system to get carries.

Raider.io behavior = Gearscore behavior.
I'm merely voicing my opinion that Raider.io is accomplishing the exact same goals and promoting the exact same behavior that Gearscore did. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Your opinion unfortunately doesn't line up with reality.

Gearscore measured epeen, and equipping high item level regardless of value.

Raider.io measures performance. Warcraftlogs measures performance.

The only people who view performance measurement as a bad thing are those who can't perform.

If you don't want to perform, and you want to do normal and heroic dungeons, and LFR raids, that's totally fine, and that's the playstyle you are enjoying. The issue is when you want to play the playstyle you enjoy (one that is based on experience rather than performance), but you expect everyone else around you to perform at a high level to enhance your experience. It's extremely selfish to expect to be carried by other people who have worked their keys to levels that you are unwilling to push your key to.
How to get a good group without IO. How to get good good IO without a group.
Another day, another "I have a life outside of WoW that I'm sure you don't so you need to invite me to your high level runs!" thread.
I also have a job and little free time.

That's why I use RaiderIO to make sure my 11+ group can clear in time and on time, leaving me with those extra minutes to enjoy my Uber Eats.
10/11/2018 12:41 PMPosted by Aeaweian
10/11/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Dliver
Sounds like you use it a lot and care a lot about its scoring system, which I don't think is how the word "despise" actually works.


i use it because i have to use it if i want to remain relevant. i dont have friends that play i cant just find 4 friends. when did things get so toxic? i knew the raiding community has always been bad but i didnt know instances deteriorated this much


If you have been playing this game for any serious period of time and do not have four friends, you need to really stop and ask yourself why. I'm guessing the problem is you.
10/11/2018 07:24 PMPosted by Chaosbug
If you don't want to perform, and you want to do normal and heroic dungeons, and LFR raids, that's totally fine, and that's the playstyle you are enjoying. The issue is when you want to play the playstyle you enjoy (one that is based on experience rather than performance), but you expect everyone else around you to perform at a high level to enhance your experience. It's extremely selfish to expect to be carried by other people who have worked their keys to levels that you are unwilling to push your key to.


Not once did I state I expected to be carried. Pretty sure I stated that I prefer to run Mythics and Raids with my guild and only my guild. Meaning ultimately that Raider.io has no effect on me as, to my knowledge, no one in my guild uses it.

My point still stands that people will take the scores from Raider.io and abuse it to demand unreasonably high Raider.io scores for the content they're doing... just like they did with Gearscore.

Back in Wrath: "We're gonna run Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle, but your Gearscore needs to be equivalent to TOC 25man"

Today: "We're gonna run Heroic Freehold, but your Raider.io needs to be Mythic +10 Freehold."

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum