The Night Elves Lose in Anduin's Peace

Story Forum
I'm going to start this one off by saying I sympathize with Anduin. As an Alliance player, I know the limitations of the universe and can say with surety that his idea to break out Saurfang, retread the Horde rebellion storyline, and oust Sylvanas is probably the most efficient and effective way of putting an end to her, and this whole nightmare of a faction war storyline.

The thing though, is that this really doesn't do a thing for the Night Elves. This fight started as a defeat for them, and it's going to end as a single massive tragedy, with only some cosmetic retribution. They've been here before. The last war started with Garrosh going after Ashenvale, and while it ended with the night elves having held the line with the help of a continental effort that was based largely out of Theramore, by the end of the war Theramore was gone, and the only thing that replaced it was a flimsy peace arrangement.

This whole experience has taught them that if they stick their necks out for the Alliance, like they did in the Silithus operation, they expose themselves to being completely wiped out by the Horde. Should the war end in the way Anduin has planned, with a Horde civil war, Sylvanas being killed, and a peace forged, the restored Night Elf territory would be completely exposed. They'd be weaker than they'd ever been, right next to the Horde's capital, with their allies far away and largely unwilling to fully commit to a full-scale war unless it's forced upon them.

So lets see. They're weaker than ever, their allies are farther away than ever, and more reluctant than ever, and with their presence in the northern Eastern Kingdoms heavily diminished you can bet the Horde would be looking to secure Kalimdor on the down-low. This has the makings of a perpetual low-key conflict where the orcs resume their operations and slowly push the Night Elves right off of Kalimdor.

The Night Elves didn't gain any security from the last war. They're not going to gain anything from Anduin's planned resolution either. The Horde is now responsible for the single greatest greatest tragedy in their history since the Sundering. The architect of that campaign is being freed, and is going to be leading the Horde rebellion, and no matter what was said about honor, the only difference between Saurfang and Sylvanas is that he didn't want to burn down Teldrassil. He's still a 'manifest destiny' sort of orc when it comes to Ashenvale, and would happily push the Night Elves into the sea.

Peace makes sense to Anduin. Spare lives, rebuild, prepare for what will inevitably come next. To the Night Elves, this calculation is flawed. Spare ten lives today, lose a hundred tomorrow. That's the lesson they've learned out of all this. Their only hopes for long-term survival, as it's now a basic assumption that there's going to be another war, Varian's threat was hollow, as will be Anduin's, are to become a refugee population in the Eastern Kingdoms and try to rebuild there, or to go all-in on the Kalimdor front and find an atrocity to inflict on the Horde that will weaken them for the effective future, or at least commit the Alliance completely to doing so. Their homeland rests on the scales being balanced by the end of this, not in a peace that effectively hangs them out to dry.
Sylvanas made a pretty convincing case to Saurfang. Idk, maybe the Alliance should have struck first?

Edit:

Maybe next time?
*Slow clap*

You. I like you. No, really, thank you for putting what I and probably many other Night Elf fans think into words.

Maybe Blizzard will listen to people's complaints with the narrative when a male Human Paladin is delivering them.
It was always going to be unfortunately. The Night Elves by tradition all these years, are not allowed to have nice things, or even permitted a place to live. They're only good for fodder and to be culled for the lolz, and even though a great percentage of their population, including the next generation, died at Teldrassil there will always be enough of them to be murdered by the Horde when they want to have some 'fun' under a dark warchief.

Such is the poison of the faction war stories. The Horde gets to rampage across everything they see fit, rebel and kick off one or two characters that never really fit, and a whole bunch of one ones designed to be evil from the outset.

While the Alliances gets to lose and lose and lose to the 'ingenious' Horde, but then somehow win the war. b
Because that's ONLY way blizzard can narratively explain why the alliance isn't wiped out after forcing them to most of the major battles
Because the Horde during faction war stories factually wouldnt Spare the alliance if they won. We need only to look at Garrosh's !@#$%^-, I mean sha induced madness vision in MoP to know that.

All the while finger wagging the Horde who get to keep ALL the material, and territory gains they managed to take and hold onto up to that point.
What exactly is the point of this post? I'm sure the Forsaken players can make the same kind of case for their losing out on Lordaeron and Tirisfal Glades.

The Night Elves have the unfortunate position of being in the wrong place at the right time. If anything is arbitrary is Blizzard's inventing a reason to take out Lordaeron City for reasons of "balance".

Instead of a refugee population, there is always the idea that the Night Elves can co-settle and rehabilitate Gilneas. It's not like they haven't been there before.
War of Thorns should never had gone as badly as it did for the Night Elves.

Draenei should've counterattacked like this:

https://youtu.be/EmTz7EAYLrs?t=123

The Wild Gods lead by Cenarius should've pursuit any survivors with the creatures of the wilds like this:

https://youtu.be/iSWHZBrbzLo?t=43

Maybe even throwing in the Vindicaar bombarding Horde holdings from space too.

Horde would've been completely slaughtered and the War of Thorns would've been remembered as a one-sided victory against another Horde selfish aggression. But with unanimous Horde cdevs all those above are overlooked or not gonna be used because it gets in the way of the "Horde story vision".
11/09/2018 10:51 AMPosted by Tyralone
War of Thorns should never had gone as badly as it did for the Night Elves.

Draenei should've counterattacked like this:

https://youtu.be/EmTz7EAYLrs?t=123

The Wild Gods lead by Cenarius should've pursuit any survivors with the creatures of the wilds like this:

https://youtu.be/iSWHZBrbzLo?t=43

Maybe even throwing in the Vindicaar bombarding Horde holdings from space too.

Horde would've been completely slaughtered and the War of Thorns would've been remembered as a one-sided victory against another Horde selfish aggression. But with unanimous Horde cdevs all those above are overlooked or not gonna be used because it gets in the way of the "Horde story vision".


The Wild Gods are not under the beck and call of Cenarius, the Night Elves, or anyone else. They only come into play when Nature itself is severely disrupted. As for Cenarius, the Horde already killed him once. Are you that anxious for a repeat performance? And the Draenei don't have a very good track record against the orcs, themselves.
The fact that you were able to articulate this hot button topic well, considering things from multiple viewpoints, and talking about it as character actions instead of the writing team trying to ruin the night elves story... honestly it gives me a lot of hope for this forum.
That's why it's time for the Night Elves to just give up on Kalimdor altogether. Get the Draenei to use the Vindicaar to give them a lift to the moon so they can live with their goddess.
11/09/2018 09:19 AMPosted by Drahliana
What exactly is the point of this post? I'm sure the Forsaken players can make the same kind of case for their losing out on Lordaeron and Tirisfal Glades.

The Night Elves have the unfortunate position of being in the wrong place at the right time. If anything is arbitrary is Blizzard's inventing a reason to take out Lordaeron City for reasons of "balance".

Instead of a refugee population, there is always the idea that the Night Elves can co-settle and rehabilitate Gilneas. It's not like they haven't been there before.


It may come as a shock to you but some people like the lore and can discuss it without fighting for a pointless and idealogical point
11/09/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Moonwillow
The Wild Gods are not under the beck and call of Cenarius, the Night Elves, or anyone else. They only come into play when Nature itself is severely disrupted. As for Cenarius, the Horde already killed him once. Are you that anxious for a repeat performance? And the Draenei don't have a very good track record against the orcs, themselves.
Yes, why would they want to defend the people who pledged themselves to defending Hyjal, the Dream, and nature? And remember it took demon blood last time to kill Cenarius.

Why are you posting this on your alt?
11/09/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Jerolan
11/09/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Moonwillow
The Wild Gods are not under the beck and call of Cenarius, the Night Elves, or anyone else. They only come into play when Nature itself is severely disrupted. As for Cenarius, the Horde already killed him once. Are you that anxious for a repeat performance? And the Draenei don't have a very good track record against the orcs, themselves.
Yes, why would they want to defend the people who pledged themselves to defending Hyjal, the Dream, and nature? And remember it took demon blood last time to kill Cenarius.

Why are you posting this on your alt?


Because I couldn't change back after I posted it. And again the Wild Gods don't work that way any more than your cat comes to you because you called it. They don't take pledges, they don't make deals, they act as a reactive force, not an active one. And some of the Wild Gods like Ursoc and Ursol, are still dead or completely out of the game.
11/09/2018 11:19 AMPosted by Drahliana
Because I couldn't change back after I posted it. And again the Wild Gods don't work that way any more than your cat comes to you because you called it. They don't take pledges, they don't make deals, they act as a reactive force, not an active one. And some of the Wild Gods like Ursoc and Ursol, are still dead or completely out of the game.
No no, your Horde main. Bring them out.

Regardless, they're allies sharing similar goals, and if the mass deforestation and plaguing soon to come to Ashenvale doesn't count as something in which nature needs defending it's just awfully convenient for the Horde yet again, isn't it?

Also Ursol is still around and just fine. In fact one might think he'd have a grudge against the Horde for what they did to the furbolg in their war efforts. Or are they suddenly the equivalent of housecats with the furbolg too?
11/09/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Jerolan
11/09/2018 11:19 AMPosted by Drahliana
Because I couldn't change back after I posted it. And again the Wild Gods don't work that way any more than your cat comes to you because you called it. They don't take pledges, they don't make deals, they act as a reactive force, not an active one. And some of the Wild Gods like Ursoc and Ursol, are still dead or completely out of the game.
No no, your Horde main. Bring them out.

Regardless, they're allies sharing similar goals, and if the mass deforestation and plaguing soon to come to Ashenvale doesn't count as something in which nature needs defending it's just awfully convenient for the Horde yet again, isn't it?

Also Ursol is still around and just fine. In fact one might think he'd have a grudge against the Horde for what they did to the furbolg in their war efforts. Or are they suddenly the equivalent of housecats with the furbolg too?


With respect, calling someone a “Horde main” because their point of view differs from you is... not a good look. Alliance players, just like horde ones, come in all shapes and sizes and have all sorts of perspectives. To argue as you have insinuates they are arguing in bad faith where there is no proof of such.
11/09/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Jerolan
11/09/2018 11:19 AMPosted by Drahliana
Because I couldn't change back after I posted it. And again the Wild Gods don't work that way any more than your cat comes to you because you called it. They don't take pledges, they don't make deals, they act as a reactive force, not an active one. And some of the Wild Gods like Ursoc and Ursol, are still dead or completely out of the game.
No no, your Horde main. Bring them out.

Regardless, they're allies sharing similar goals, and if the mass deforestation and plaguing soon to come to Ashenvale doesn't count as something in which nature needs defending it's just awfully convenient for the Horde yet again, isn't it?

Also Ursol is still around and just fine. In fact one might think he'd have a grudge against the Horde for what they did to the furbolg in their war efforts. Or are they suddenly the equivalent of housecats with the furbolg too?


I recall killing a lot of firbolg in my Night Elf quests in both Darkshore and Ashenvale, more than I did as Horde.

This is my "Main" as you put it. Arlessa is my main on the Horde side but she's only 112 at the moment, and the others aren't even close. My perspective tends to change with the character I'm playing. Arlessa hates the Night Elves with a burning passion but Teldrassil gave her a pause. She's still very much a Horde partisan though and for her that's Sylvannas right now.

And the Druid artifact weapon quests pretty much confirms that the Bear Brothers are done fighting anyone's battles.
11/09/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Drahliana
I recall killing a lot of firbolg in my Night Elf quests in both Darkshore and Ashenvale, more than I did as Horde.
All of whom were corrupted because of lololdgod stuff. You know, that thing that conveniently removed every advantage the night elves had between launch and Cataclysm.

11/09/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Drahliana
And the Druid artifact weapon quests pretty much confirms that the Bear Brothers are done fighting anyone's battles.
I find myself unable to recall that line from either of them. Perhaps you can find me a quote? I was rather obsessed with that quest and everything about the two of them if it's hard to tell, I think I'd have remembered that.
You know how Horde players get to choose between Saurfang and Sylvanas? Alliance players should get a similar choice between Tyrande and Anduin.
11/09/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Moonwillow
11/09/2018 10:51 AMPosted by Tyralone
War of Thorns should never had gone as badly as it did for the Night Elves.

Draenei should've counterattacked like this:

https://youtu.be/EmTz7EAYLrs?t=123

The Wild Gods lead by Cenarius should've pursuit any survivors with the creatures of the wilds like this:

https://youtu.be/iSWHZBrbzLo?t=43

Maybe even throwing in the Vindicaar bombarding Horde holdings from space too.

Horde would've been completely slaughtered and the War of Thorns would've been remembered as a one-sided victory against another Horde selfish aggression. But with unanimous Horde cdevs all those above are overlooked or not gonna be used because it gets in the way of the "Horde story vision".


The Wild Gods are not under the beck and call of Cenarius, the Night Elves, or anyone else. They only come into play when Nature itself is severely disrupted. As for Cenarius, the Horde already killed him once. Are you that anxious for a repeat performance? And the Draenei don't have a very good track record against the orcs, themselves.


The Draenei did not have an army of living weapons, a spaceship that can nuke stuff from orbit and Warframes straight out of a Mechwarrior game back then.
Sometimes I think Blizzard mods post dumb comments here with alts just to stir up the controversy that their "story" calls for.

The book BtS said Sylvanas wanted to turn the Alliance against each other, even though that went against the characters we've come to know that lead the Alliance. They didn't turn against each other, instead worked together.. just like they had no plans on attacking the Horde, which was Sylvanas' excuse for pre-emptive attack.

Now we get the hamfisted excuse that Tyrande wants to run back and attack the Horde solo, rambo-style, without any back up because both sides lost their military naval fleet in the Legion war, which was explained many times.

If it's anyone's fault on the Alliance's side that Teldrassil was lost, it's Tyrande's. She was the one who decided to send all her forces on a wild goose-chase to Silithus.

She was the one who decided to build a nation in the middle of the Horde territory, without even the most basic fortifications, such as "walls".

Instead they lived as free-flowing hippies leaping from tree to tree until they ran out of places to run to, and who built their central city on top of the largest supply of fire-kindling that the worlds ever seen.

Now she's deciding to run head-first back into Horde that just sacked their homeland, and we're supposed to just mindlessly jump in with her and no real strategy at all.

Anduin still may be a child, but the military and strategic training he received in his youth is way more competent than Tyrande's 10,000 years of silly moon worship.
11/09/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Shadestalkër
Sometimes I think Blizzard mods post dumb comments here with alts just to stir up the controversy that their "story" calls for.
Ironic, considering the rest of your post.

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