Are Ele Shammans THAT bad?

Shaman
11/13/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Akston
Sorry. You lose all credibility when you state that ele sham are one of the most mobile ranged dps.

People with 1000x more experience than you have argued the opposite.

No. I don't think ele shams are as bad as the stigma. They still need a ton of help, which 8.1 is a step in the right direction. But when you say things like you have, you lose any ability to convince others of your legit points.

And yes. You 100% got carried in your heroic uldir runs.

You lose credibility when you demonstrate you can't read. I even took the time to break down by-GCD spellpower co-efficients showing Elemental is more mobile than Balance and linked the most mobile fight in the Mythic raiding tier where Balance underperforms Elemental due specifically to that weakness. I listed specific RDPS specs that are significantly less mobile than Elemental on fights where mobility is necessary and instead of showing where I'm wrong, people said silly garbage like "but... Shimmer twice every 40 seconds!" as if Arcane doesn't dead GCD movement 2/3rds of the time because they literally can't press a button or they'll lose DPS.

Are there more mobile specs? Yeah, Beastmaster, Fire, Affliction. That's about it. Shouting that I'm wrong because you have your own personal pity party doesn't make me wrong.

As to me getting carried? Let's see: I was 5th on MOTHER, bottom on Fetid due to extremely poor positioning on my part and not saving my Fire elemental for 2nd phase, I was a 100% parse for ilvl on Vectis, 5th and a 95th percentile parse on Vectis, Zul was low specifically because we needed more single target Zul DPS for the burn strategy and I funneled all Maelstrom to Earth Shock instead of Earthquake to make the DPS check (otherwise I was consistently 2nd/3rd on every attempt), and I was 3rd DPS on Mythrax which was the progression kill of the night. No, I wasn't being carried. You need to understand what the term "being carried" means. Making the DPS check and scoring middle of the entire DPS line-up isn't "being carried." Checking your guild's logs against my comparative DPS position it looks like if I'm getting carried, you're getting carried harder.

*EDIT* Lmao dude... I just noticed something. While you're telling me I'm being carried my H-Mythrax parse last week smoked your by 500 DPS. You had 30 ilvls on me and 10 stacks of reorigination array. Who are you trash talking about being a carry? If you have 1000x the experience (you don't, you have far less raiding experience than I do actually), why am I smoking you while raiding in blues?
11/13/2018 10:57 PMPosted by Thulgrum
11/13/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Akston
Sorry. You lose all credibility when you state that ele sham are one of the most mobile ranged dps.

People with 1000x more experience than you have argued the opposite.

No. I don't think ele shams are as bad as the stigma. They still need a ton of help, which 8.1 is a step in the right direction. But when you say things like you have, you lose any ability to convince others of your legit points.

And yes. You 100% got carried in your heroic uldir runs.

You lose credibility when you demonstrate you can't read. I even took the time to break down by-GCD spellpower co-efficients showing Elemental is more mobile than Balance and linked the most mobile fight in the Mythic raiding tier where Balance underperforms Elemental due specifically to that weakness. I listed specific RDPS specs that are significantly less mobile than Elemental on fights where mobility is necessary and instead of showing where I'm wrong, people said silly garbage like "but... Shimmer twice every 40 seconds!" as if Arcane doesn't dead GCD movement 2/3rds of the time because they literally can't press a button or they'll lose DPS.

Are there more mobile specs? Yeah, Beastmaster, Fire, Affliction. That's about it. Shouting that I'm wrong because you have your own personal pity party doesn't make me wrong.

As to me getting carried? Let's see: I was 5th on MOTHER, bottom on Fetid due to extremely poor positioning on my part and not saving my Fire elemental for 2nd phase, I was a 100% parse for ilvl on Vectis, 5th and a 95th percentile parse on Vectis, Zul was low specifically because we needed more single target Zul DPS for the burn strategy and I funneled all Maelstrom to Earth Shock instead of Earthquake to make the DPS check (otherwise I was consistently 2nd/3rd on every attempt), and I was 3rd DPS on Mythrax which was the progression kill of the night. No, I wasn't being carried. You need to understand what the term "being carried" means. Making the DPS check and scoring middle of the entire DPS line-up isn't "being carried." Checking your guild's logs against my comparative DPS position it looks like if I'm getting carried, you're getting carried harder.

*EDIT* Lmao dude... I just noticed something. While you're telling me I'm being carried my H-Mythrax parse last week smoked your by 500 DPS. You had 30 ilvls on me and 10 stacks of reorigination array. Who are you trash talking about being a carry? If you have 1000x the experience (you don't, you have far less raiding experience than I do actually), why am I smoking you while raiding in blues?


A couple things here.

1) You think a high ilvl parse in !@#$ty gear means you aren't being carried. You are on par with tank dps in some of your single target fights.

2) You think experience in non Elemental shaman matters is what I am referring to.

3) Congrats. You caught me napping on a farm boss I was sleeping through.

4) My ilvl average is higher than your ilvl average

5) Please join the Shaman discord channel and explain to the top WoW theorycrafters how Ele Sham is one of the most mobile ranged dps specs. Here is the link. https://discord.gg/earthshrine.

6) You really should let all the top guilds in the world know they don't know what they are doing by not bringing ele shams, and going out of their way to often stack balance druids.
Seems this thread has currently devolved into.. "Are shaman more mobile than others" THE ANSWER MAY SHOCK YOU.

Yes shaman are more mobile. No shaman are less mobile.

But Gron, You say with arrogance in your voice.. I Are best shaman here for numbars! Cool beans, but both statements are true.

When you look at.. say against a mage. Shaman is more mobile. That is correct. A mage however has better BURST mobility.

WHHHAAAT? New words? WAAAT?

Burst mobility is what shaman are after.. more or less. Blink is an easy example of burst mobility. Ghost wolf is more or less just "mobility" Sprint, is again a burst of speed to get you there fast. etc.

So, to sum it up. Shaman would like gust back for additional BURST mobility. Our current option Ghost wolf (which is dispellable in pvp.. other mobility isn't for those playing at home!) is more proactive than reactive. Still is a great mobility tool.

Do shaman need a more reactive burst option? Before gust of wind how did others fare? Did you always feel lacking?

Also, cut the whole elitist parse non sense out yeah? If you don't like an opinion. Ignore it and move on.. or better yet.. try to understand their point of view, rather than going full derp. No one likes that.
11/12/2018 10:54 PMPosted by Thulgrum
You're playing wrong. Plain and simple


340 frost mage does more DPS on aoe pulls than a 370 ele. DPS is different than dmg done. The reason being you can guarantee all a critical hits on for aoe based moves on non root immune mobs. This means mage has higher aoe burst than ele at a lower item level, in general aoe burst is more desirable than aoe sustain in the current mob heavy dungeons IMO. On demand 30 sec cd instant aoe burst > than build up sustained aoe dmg reliant on 1min / 5 min cds.

comet storm+pet nova, ice nova, frozen orb, blizzard. frost nova, cone of cold
vs
Stormkeeper Pfire ele liquid magma+Meteor>chain > earthquake >chain> earthquake

This was also pre earthquake buff.

';...;' my face when told im playing ele wrong by a shaman with deck of tides and a 300 ilv chest.

8.1 frost mages nerf not that bad if you're not a srcublet.
did 77k dps with just comet storm pet nova ice nova (30 sec cd) on 4 stack mobs with my rat league gear
Thulgrum, just stop. You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about and you're embarrassing yourself.

I could take your position apart line-by-line to show that you don't know what you're talking about. Instead I'll let the data speak for itself. Let's look at Mythrax, the most mobile fight in the tier:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#boss=2135

Below Elemental. The only reason Heroic parses are higher is because most guilds use highly inefficient spread strategies which Balance capitalizes on by multi-dotting. In the highly efficient Mythic strategies where spread dotting isn't as effective since the adds spawn more stacked, Balance's true mobility weaknesses are laid bare. Jeez, it's almost as if I play a Balance druid so know that they're actually pretty slow turrets.


Firstly, Mythrax is not even remotely the most mobile fight in the tier. That title belongs to Mother; hell even Fetid is worse with movement. The movement required for Mythrax is very predictable aside from obliteration, of which Balance has much better tools to deal with. Literally the only reason Elemental is near Balance is because a quarter of that fight is a big AoE fiesta and Elemental has stronger AoE.

Mother logs are a crapshoot because of how the fight works but when you look at Taloc and Fetid logs the difference is stark. Since Taloc is basically tank and spank these days Balance is only 1.9% ahead of Elemental. But on Fetid which is pretty high movement Balance is 9% ahead, showing clearly that Balance deals with movement better than Elemental.

Oh and by the way, just because it might help you deal decent DPS: Stellar Drift is a DPS loss. It's an even larger DPS loss in cleave and AoE (check Herodamage if you don't believe me). It also requires you to be in close quarters with the enemies like a melee class making you take more damage. The best-case mobile cast if you don't have astral power is Sunfire which is 20% SP. Frost shock is 45%, more than double. Your DoTs actually don't even compensate for this. Flame Shock is 157.5% spellpower (13.125% per GCD), both your dots combined are 195% spellpower (21% per GCD). Meaning DoTs included with no astral power your given mobile DPS is 41% spell power per mobile GCD vs Elemental's 58% per mobile GCD.


Holy hell, if your going to use math could you at least try? Every number you gave is completely !@#$ing wrong.

Using Mythrax talent choices:

Elemental
Flame Shock:
35% SP Initial Hit with 1.5s GCD, 0.98x From Aura = 22.87% SP/sec
17.5% SP Per Tick every 2s, 1.1x from Totem Mastery, 0.98 From Aura = 9.43% SP/sec

Frost Shock:
45% SP with 1.5s GCD, 0.98 From Aura = 29.4% SP/sec

Total, assuming Frost Shock spam: 38.83% SP/sec

Balance
Moonfire:
14.5% SP Initial Hit with 1.5s GCD, 1.2x from Twin Moons, 0.82x From Aura = 9.51% SP/sec
13.5% SP Per Tick every 2s, 1.2x from Twin Moons, 0.82x from Aura = 6.64% SP/sec

Sunfire:
20% SP Initial Hit with 1.5s GCD, 0.82x From Aura = 10.93% SP/sec
14.5% SP Per Tick every 2s, 0.82x from Aura = 5.95% SP/sec

Shooting Stars:
10% proc rate x 60 ticks/minute = 6 procs per minute
36% SP 6 times per minute, 0.82x From Aura = 2.95% SP/sec

Total, assuming Sunfire spam which is a worst-case scenario: 26.47% SP/sec

But these calculations are missing two elements that both favor Balance; their mastery is a flat boost to all of their mobile damage and far exceeds the bonus Elemental Fury would give in comparison, and they generate AP which gives them access to even more instant spells.

And still, Sunfire spam is a worst-case scenario and a pretty clear indicator of a bad Balance druid. A good Balance druid would have at least one, if not two Starsuges banked which throws this comparison so far into the Balance druid's favor it's not even funny.

1 Earth Shock + 2 Frost Shocks + DoTs: 374.4% SP
2 Starsurges + 1 Sunfire + DoTs: 463.53% SP (with 0 mastery!!!)

Oh, but we can't forget Starsurge. Which has a spellpower co-efficient 20% Spellpower lower than Earth Shock, meaning even when banking resources in prediction of movement, Elemental is STILL better. And we best not forget Lava Surge, which balance has absolutely no analogue for. Those mobility spells look tasty for Balance though... until you realize you lose a GCD getting into form to use them and another GCD to get back into Moonkin form, costing 2 GCD's for every 1 Elemental uses for Ghost Wolf.


Firstly, Starsurge is 188.6% SP and Earth Shock is 245% SP, and that's not including Balance's mastery.

Secondly, Balance can bank 2 Starsurges, Elemental can only bank 1 Earth Shock and can only hold it for a few seconds without risking overcapping. And Wild Charge doesn't require shapeshifting and has a 0.5s GCD, just how clueless are you?


You don't barrage while moving, you eat the dead cast so you don't have to rebuild Blast stacks.


The power of that talent comes from being able to position yourself after casting it when you know you need to be at a specific place at a specific time. Using instants to inch your way to a place is basic caster 101, honestly it's sad I have to explain this to you.

Displacement has a 30 second cooldown, only moves you back to where you were, and must be used within 10 seconds of the initial blink, so I have no idea where you got the idea that you get 2 extra blinks from it. These inaccuracies are really, really glaring given that you bragged about playing one. But they are completely expected from someone who has an ilvl 320 alt they played for 2 days and never did anything serious with.


You do know that Displacement resets the cooldown on Blink, right? And that not all movement is straight A to B?

The balance druid that showed up to tell me I'm wrong? They don't know how to play their class. They're taking an AoE talent on single target to stand in melee in order to benefit from "mobility." An AoE talent that is also inferior on AoE to the other AoE talents in the tier. They're counting their kit as mobile without even reading their spell co-efficients. They don't know how to play.


Someone who parses grey telling someone else they don't know how to play their class. lol
Blizzard.. I'd like to report a murder..Because Superlurker just killed a guy. Hitting someone with knowledge over insults? Ooft. Where did that spriest go.. I needed popcorn for that.

On a serious note. A well informed post. Just need those source links at the bottom and a shiny title and you might be able to publish that paper for a uni degree. The art of Shamanism in WoW. Or.. Blizzards only immobile game. The shaman.

Well done indeed Good Sir and or madam. Or both. Or all three.
11/14/2018 04:26 AMPosted by Gron
Blizzards only immobile game.


::Cough:: Shadowpriests ::Cough::
11/14/2018 05:03 AMPosted by Latsyrc
11/14/2018 04:26 AMPosted by Gron
Blizzards only immobile game.


::Cough:: Shadowpriests ::Cough::


Hey that one shadow priest in this thread never shared his popcorn. They deserve to be forgotten after that. Such rudeness.
11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker

Total, assuming Frost Shock spam: 38.83% SP/sec

38.83 * 1.5 (GCD is 1.5 seconds base) = 58.245% SP/gcd. My math was perfect. You just can't read.

11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker

Total, assuming Sunfire spam which is a worst-case scenario: 26.47% SP/sec

26.47 * 1.5 (GCD is 1.5 seconds base) = 39.705% per mobile GCD. Apparently if my math is wrong according to your worst cast scenario, I overestimated Balance's mobile DPS. Honestly, I don't know where you're getting your spellpower co-efficients. I pulled them straight off of WoWhead took their total SP co-efficient and divided by their maximum duration and multipied by 1.5 for the GCD. If there are aura nerfs that's actually far, far worse for Balance because it suppresses the multiplicative scalers for DPS. The low aura debuff actually explains why Elemental Shaman scaling is so insane compared to other classes, their scalers are being suppressed by aura debuffs.

11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker
But these calculations are missing two elements that both favor Balance; their mastery is a flat boost to all of their mobile damage and far exceeds the bonus Elemental Fury would give in comparison, and they generate AP which gives them access to even more instant spells.

Mastery is their bottom stat, they avoid it like the plague. The astral power generation of these spells are negligible compared to, say, Lava Surge. Why are you even mentioning secondaries? Shall we start including Elemental Shaman's secondaries? I'll give you a hint: they scale much higher and much faster than Balance's mastery stat.

11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker
And still, Sunfire spam is a worst-case scenario and a pretty clear indicator of a bad Balance druid. A good Balance druid would have at least one, if not two Starsuges banked which throws this comparison so far into the Balance druid's favor it's not even funny.

1 Earth Shock + 2 Frost Shocks + DoTs: 374.4% SP
2 Starsurges + 1 Sunfire + DoTs: 463.53% SP (with 0 mastery!!!)

A good elemental Shaman would have an Earth Shock banked and a bad Balance would have 2 starsurges banked because they've overcapped and wasting Astral Power losing DPS. Again, Balance druids avoid mastery. That's before get to the risk of empowerment overcapping which is a significant risk when banking Starsurges the way you're saying they should. The bottom line is Balance doesn't play the way you think they do.

11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker
Firstly, Starsurge is 188.6% SP and Earth Shock is 245% SP, and that's not including Balance's mastery.

Secondly, Balance can bank 2 Starsurges, Elemental can only bank 1 Earth Shock and can only hold it for a few seconds without risking overcapping. And Wild Charge doesn't require shapeshifting and has a 0.5s GCD, just how clueless are you?

Link to spell co-efficients please.
https://www.wowdb.com/spells/78674-starsurge
Starsurge is 230% SP.
https://www.wowdb.com/spells/8042-earth-shock
Earth Shock is 250% SP.

If you're including aura debuffs into the co-efficients, you can't do that. The aura is a separate multiplier.

Wild Charge doesn't require shapeshifting but dash, travel form, and cat form do (all typical mobility tactics used by Balance druids in raids and M+). All of which require shapeshifting back into Moonkin form. It really is odd how you can't give ground on even the inarguable facts and have the pretend that it wasn't said.

11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker
The power of that talent comes from being able to position yourself after casting it when you know you need to be at a specific place at a specific time. Using instants to inch your way to a place is basic caster 101, honestly it's sad I have to explain this to you.

So... nothing that works on randomized ground effects which is where most ranged DPS mobility actually matters?

11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker
You do know that Displacement resets the cooldown on Blink, right? And that not all movement is straight A to B?

Yeah, you get 1 extra blink out of displacement, not two.

11/14/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Superlurker
Someone who parses grey telling someone else they don't know how to play their class. lol

Check by ilvl. I had a multiple 90% parses and a 100% parse the week you're saying "lol parse gray." Insulting my ability to play when the parse data people keep referring to show that in most cases I'm putting out the most my class can possibly put out given my gear:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wyFRxhvkH38TDd1J#fight=11&source=2&view=rankings&playermetriccompare=statistics

Mother 97% parse, Vectis 99% parse, Zek'voz 95% parse, Mythrax 96% parse. My performance is borderline flawless.

11/14/2018 02:54 AMPosted by Gron
Also, cut the whole elitist parse non sense out yeah? If you don't like an opinion. Ignore it and move on.. or better yet.. try to understand their point of view, rather than going full derp. No one likes that.

I didn't want to go that stupid route to begin with! Omegaspirets decided to smack talk my parses, so I defended them and pointed out given their performance they shouldn't be talking smack. Then Freelora decided to call me a carry, so I defended myself with the data. Then Akston decided to call me a carry too. Now Superlurker decided to attack my parses. I NEVER attacked someone's performance when they didn't attack mine first.
You are still a carry if you are barely beating out a tank.

A high ilvl parse does not mean you aren't a carry. I don't get how this is complicated.
11/14/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Akston
You are still a carry if you are barely beating out a tank.

A high ilvl parse does not mean you aren't a carry. I don't get how this is complicated.

I smoked the tank in almost every fight and performed at or above the level of every other raider. I even outperformed you despite your ridiculous gear advantage on Mythrax. I don't know how that's complicated.
11/14/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Thulgrum
11/14/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Akston
You are still a carry if you are barely beating out a tank.

A high ilvl parse does not mean you aren't a carry. I don't get how this is complicated.

I smoked the tank in almost every fight and performed at or above the level of every other raider. I even outperformed you despite your ridiculous gear advantage on Mythrax. I don't know how that's complicated.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wyFRxhvkH38TDd1J#fight=7&type=damage-done

And like I said. Congrats. You caught me sleeping once on a farm boss that I don't really care about anymore. My average ilvl parse average is still greater. I am not sure what your point is anymore.

You play great for your ilvl. I get that. I am not debating that. That does not stop you from being a carry. That does not stop you from clearly being wrong about a class you look to have just picked up. But like I said. Feel free to join the shaman discord and explain to everyone how they are all wrong, and shaman are one of the most mobile ranged dps specs in WoW.
Yeah, Fetid was a bad fight with bad performance from me. Live and learn, it doesn't make me a carry for the whole raid as you're asserting.

I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong. I'm just not. And there's no benefit to go to the worst, most elitist echo chamber on the net to convince people who have already convinced each other against the winning hand they've been dealt in 8.1.

You guys just aren't interested and aren't interesting as a result. You think 3 months of playing one class gives you insight on how the rest of the RDPS classes function, complain/beg for things devoid of understanding or context, share just flat wrong misconceptions of other class' kits. Mr. theorycrafter who Gron thinks "murdered me" doesn't even know how to read a parse by ilvl. Why on earth would I want to talk to more people like that?

38.83 * 1.5 (GCD is 1.5 seconds base) = 58.245% SP/gcd. My math was perfect. You just can't read.


58.245 =/= 58. You failed to include talents and the aura which means your math is wrong. You lucked out that the difference wasn't that big.

26.47 * 1.5 (GCD is 1.5 seconds base) = 39.705% per mobile GCD. Apparently if my math is wrong according to your worst cast scenario, I overestimated Balance's mobile DPS. Honestly, I don't know where you're getting your spellpower co-efficients. I pulled them straight off of WoWhead took their total SP co-efficient and divided by their maximum duration and multipied by 1.5 for the GCD. If there are aura nerfs that's actually far, far worse for Balance because it suppresses the multiplicative scalers for DPS. The low aura debuff actually explains why Elemental Shaman scaling is so insane compared to other classes, their scalers are being suppressed by aura debuffs.


Do you have any understanding on how WoW's damage calculations work at all? All damage modifiers are multiplicative, "suppresses the multiplicative scalers" is nonsense as that's not how multiplication works.

Oh, and I actually forgot about the 10% damage from Moonkin form. So it's actually 29.12% SP/sec (and for the worst-case scenario, as a reminder).

Mastery is their bottom stat, they avoid it like the plague. The astral power generation of these spells are negligible compared to, say, Lava Surge. Why are you even mentioning secondaries? Shall we start including Elemental Shaman's secondaries? I'll give you a hint: they scale much higher and much faster than Balance's mastery stat.


Balance has an 11.2% base bonus at 0 mastery. I have to mention this because it means their dots and spends scale with all 4 secondaries while shocks only scale with 3. Having 0 mastery is also impossible for obvious reasons.

And no, Elemental Fury scales a lot worse than Balance mastery. All Elemental Fury means for shocks is that they get +1.5% average damage per 1% crit instead of the normal 1%. I pulled up a random top-parsing Balance druid, they had 15% crit and 21% mastery. In order for Elemental Fury to match the multiplier of Balance, they would need 26.1% crit to stay on par. In secondary ratings, that's 1238 for the Balance druid and 1519 for the shaman, which means the shaman is sacrificing other secondaries to keep with Balance's mastery scaling.

And Lava Surge is completely RNG and not something you can plan movement with.

A good elemental Shaman would have an Earth Shock banked and a bad Balance would have 2 starsurges banked because they've overcapped and wasting Astral Power losing DPS. Again, Balance druids avoid mastery. That's before get to the risk of empowerment overcapping which is a significant risk when banking Starsurges the way you're saying they should. The bottom line is Balance doesn't play the way you think they do.


Um, 40 x 2 = 80 < 100. They have two wraths of wriggle room and unless they get extremely unlucky with Shooting Stars procs they won't overcap. They can also weave Starsurges between other instant casts completely removing the chance of overcapping.

That is were the strength of Balance mobility lies, having so many instant casts built into their rotation. Imagine a scenario where both classes have to spend 4 GCDs moving; the Balance player watched timers and planned for this, they have 75 AP, no empowerments, dots about to fall off. They can Starsurge, Moonfire, Sunfire, Starsurge. They just spent those 4 GCDs moving and lost 0 DPS. But Elemental? Earth Shock, Flame Shock, but oh !@#$ Lava Burst is off cooldown but they can't stand still to cast it. And they're not getting lucky with Lava Surge procs. So they have to spend the next two globals on Frost Shocks, meanwhile having to sit on Lava Burst for several seconds potentially resulting in a lost cast and lost 1.5 Lightning Bolts all while generating zero maelstrom putting them even further behind. And that's not even including Treant/Wrath of Elune, which would potentially let the druid spend even more globals moving. And even still, that's not mentioning Wild Charge which could let the druid close a gap in 0.5 GCDs that a shaman would take 2 Frost Shocks to do. Bonus points if there are additional adds for Balance to dot giving them even more mobility.


Link to spell co-efficients please.
https://www.wowdb.com/spells/78674-starsurge
Starsurge is 230% SP.
https://www.wowdb.com/spells/8042-earth-shock
Earth Shock is 250% SP.

If you're including aura debuffs into the co-efficients, you can't do that. The aura is a separate multiplier.


Um, yes. You have to include tuning auras when comparing spells from different classes or the comparison won't be accurate. And again, it seems you don't understand how damage multipliers in WoW work.

Wild Charge doesn't require shapeshifting but dash, travel form, and cat form do (all typical mobility tactics used by Balance druids in raids and M+). All of which require shapeshifting back into Moonkin form. It really is odd how you can't give ground on even the inarguable facts and have the pretend that it wasn't said.


Dash and Cat Form are only used when you absolutely need the movement speed, and is analogous to Ghost Wolf. And Balance can more than make up for the extra GCD shapeshift uses over the course of a fight.

So... nothing that works on randomized ground effects which is where most ranged DPS mobility actually matters?


Did you forget that Shimmer exists?

I'm not saying that Arcane has the best mobile DPS. They struggle with any movement that doesn't line up with Blink, but when they do line-up they're still a hell of a lot better than Elemental.

Yeah, you get 1 extra blink out of displacement, not two.


Shimmer > Displacement > Shimmer > Shimmer. 4 Blinks. This isn't rocket science.

Check by ilvl. I had a multiple 90% parses and a 100% parse the week you're saying "lol parse gray." Insulting my ability to play when the parse data people keep referring to show that in most cases I'm putting out the most my class can possibly put out given my gear:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wyFRxhvkH38TDd1J#fight=11&source=2&view=rankings&playermetriccompare=statistics

Mother 97% parse, Vectis 99% parse, Zek'voz 95% parse, Mythrax 96% parse. My performance is borderline flawless.


Your performance is garbage. This late into the tier, the only characters your iLvL bracket contains are alts they don't know how to play and are just %^-*ing around on and people so bad they struggle to clear M0's and have no gear but then get carried by a friend's guild. Those high iLvL parses in those brackets are meaningless.

Just for fun, I went back and looked at some of my logs from the first week of Uldir back when I was your iLvL. Despite having a 325 weapon, learning the new heroic mechanics, not knowing any timers, and having terrible positioning I was doing upwards of 15-30% more DPS than you. Watch as your bracket parses tank as you get more gear.
11/14/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Thulgrum
I didn't want to go that stupid route to begin with! Omegaspirets decided to smack talk my parses, so I defended them and pointed out given their performance they shouldn't be talking smack. Then Freelora decided to call me a carry, so I defended myself with the data. Then Akston decided to call me a carry too. Now Superlurker decided to attack my parses. I NEVER attacked someone's performance when they didn't attack mine first


And yet here you are, still in a slugging match to see who has the larger epeen. The bigger man .. or dwarf in this case accepts that they have differences, and walks away. You are never going to win this debate if you believe shaman mobility is fine right now. Just like people claim that shaman defensives are fine right now. In this age of raiding, mobility is king, and we shaman lack the required mobility to come out on top. That is just how it is now.

And on the topic of parses.. They are so horrible to judge performance.. so i'm not sure why you even bother to try and defend it. Way to many variables to get an accurate judge of the player... So many variables..
/popcorn
I think mobility totally depends on your point of view. If you compare Elemental to a concrete pillar planted deep in the ground, we are very mobile. If you compare us to a turtle with two broken legs, then we are not mobile at all (yes, the turtle wins).
I wish I could post a meme....it would be the Michael Jackson one eating popcorn with the enthusiastic look on his face.....But don't mind my comment.....keep going.....please.....
A MotE IF SK build sort of helps mobility a lot especially in 8.1

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