Can't convince my friend to upgrade to an SSD

Games, Gaming and Hardware
I have a samsung evo since 2015 changed my life. My friend who makes much more money than I do has a pretty good PC he built in 2015. He has an i7 6700k , 32 Gb of DDR4 2400 and he had an R9 he upgraded to a Gtx 1080 in 2016.

The odd man out in his system is his single 4 TB hitachi 5200 Rpm Hard disk. Windows and all his games and everything are on that one drive.

He has some rather slow loads at times in wow. He says oldschool hdd's are reliable and ssd's are not.

Not that I would say they are not and inexpensive I have 2 non solid state drives in my system for a total of 3 TB of storage to get that with SSD costs an arm and a leg.
11/12/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Troposphere
He says oldschool hdd's are reliable and ssd's are not.

He's stuck in the past but that's his problem. In his defense, upgrading storage can be a hassle.
11/12/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Mordrid
11/12/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Troposphere
He says oldschool hdd's are reliable and ssd's are not.

He's stuck in the past but that's his problem. In his defense, upgrading storage can be a hassle.


It can be, but it’s not that bad. I migrated my windows install to an SSD and it was a simple quick process.

But yeah, I can’t imagine using a 5400RPM disk in 2018. He’s certainly stuck in the past, and wasn’t even right in the past. HDDs have always had rather high failure rates.

I mean, the AFR for SDDs is less than half a percent, for HDDs it’s ~4-6%.
Some people just don't want to be helped.
bring him a disc and a thumb drive and ask him which one he prefers.
Basically the same concept
He can't even be bothered to get a 7200 RPM drive so it's either an areas he is just completely clueless about or doesn't care about.
I can't imagine using a 5400 RPM drive on my main computer. That just sounds brutal lol. I can hardly stand the 5400 RPM in my laptop, that drives me up a wall every time I want to use the thing. I upgraded my 7200 RPM in my desktop to an SSD a while back, and I think it was well worth it. Sadly, I purchased mine around the time of the high prices :(.
Some people don't see the need of upgrading hardware until they absolutely have to is all.
I would say that one of his beliefs is wrong (HDDs are more reliable), and has almost always been wrong (the very first SSDs had bad write limits and some spotty controllers, but those were fixed very quickly).

I would say the other (That they are expensive) is a matter of perspective for each person, but looking at it logically and externally, SSDs are quite a bit more expensive than HDDs even with the recent price drops.

They are not "cheap" - not for what you get, but they may be 'affordable' - which is a metric that changes on the user. For the forseeable future, HDDs will ALWAYS be vastly superior in cost/GB, but if SSDs drop another 25% or so, theyll finally be at the "you should always have one at least for your OS and frequent applications" affordability line.

They aren't QUITE there yet. If im suggesting a build to someone, the very first thing ill cut to get more in-game performance on a tight budget is the SSD.
In 2018 an ssd isnt an option, its an absolute must.

Load times are decreased by over half at least. Once you use one you will never go back.
SSD aren't unreliable, they just have a limited amount of write cycles. If you're just gaming in general I don't foresee it being an issue.

Alternatively he could get Intel Optane and link it to his HDD and he would see a good increase in read/write times for a fraction of the cost. I have a 500GB SSD for the games I play all the time and a 5TB HDD with Optane and it works nicely.
11/12/2018 01:41 PMPosted by Kagthul
I would say that one of his beliefs is wrong (HDDs are more reliable), and has almost always been wrong (the very first SSDs had bad write limits and some spotty controllers, but those were fixed very quickly).

I would say the other (That they are expensive) is a matter of perspective for each person, but looking at it logically and externally, SSDs are quite a bit more expensive than HDDs even with the recent price drops.

They are not "cheap" - not for what you get, but they may be 'affordable' - which is a metric that changes on the user. For the forseeable future, HDDs will ALWAYS be vastly superior in cost/GB, but if SSDs drop another 25% or so, theyll finally be at the "you should always have one at least for your OS and frequent applications" affordability line.

They aren't QUITE there yet. If im suggesting a build to someone, the very first thing ill cut to get more in-game performance on a tight budget is the SSD.


The other thing is that with the rise of streaming and easy access to downloadable media the need for massive amounts of on site storage is also decreasing. So in all but the cheapest of builds an SSD is easily affordable you just might find yourself not able to have every game loaded all the time.
11/12/2018 08:40 PMPosted by Ziryus

The other thing is that with the rise of streaming and easy access to downloadable media the need for massive amounts of on site storage is also decreasing. So in all but the cheapest of builds an SSD is easily affordable you just might find yourself not able to have every game loaded all the time.


This entirely depends on where you live, particularly in the US.

Relying on streaming is a great way to not have your content when you want it, and a great way to hit your bandwidth cap every month even if you dont have reliability issues.

Especially as the big internet providers are being more de-regulated than ever - they are imposing bandwidth caps.

I had to switch to Business Class for my home use because Comcast imposed a 1TB cap per month. And 5$/GB overage fees.

As i had just cut the cord as it were (dropped Cable for Sling and Netflix), that quickly became untennable, as using Sling as a TV replacement was putting us at ~600GB a month easily. Screw us if we had to download any games or anything.

Ironically, Business Class was cheaper for better speeds and (automatically) no data cap. Or i could have paid ANOTHER 50$ on top of the already ridiculous 120$ i was paying for Internet on a residential line (that had a 1TB cap).

So i dont think the "you dont need lots of onboard storage" really works for as many people as a lot of people think. Anyone living in a sole or dualopoly area almost assuredly has a data cap or will soon now that Comcast and Verizon have shown that they can get away with it (particularly if the other half of the available internet is crappy DSL service). And bandwidth needs for streaming are going UP.

All that TV we stream is in 720p or 1080p (depending on the channel on Sling, 1080p for Netflix). If we streamed in 4k we'd be well over 2-3TB/month. 4k streams devour bandwidth.

In areas with healthy competition (just a few towns over, my former roomates from my single days still live in an area with 4 providers; they pay 80$ for 125/25, an HDTV package, and a phone; at my house that would cost almost 200$ - less than 30 miles away; and thats Comcast in both cases) you can maybe get away with that. But there are a lot less of those places, and since the FCC is now basically a shill front for those companies, there are going to be even less as they are now allowing mergers and trades that would never have been contemplated before to create more single-provider areas. Comcast, for instance, just bought a huge swath of Wide-Open-West's infrastructure here in MI on the western side of the state, and sold/traded WOW all of their infrastructure int he northern half of the lower peninsula.... now they no longer compete. Prices went up 25% within days. And both companies instituted data caps in their now monopolies.

Until and unless the US (and other countries. Canada has it WORSE) gets its head out and gets with the rest of the world, streaming is still going to be limited and having your content on a drive is always going to be preferable if you're intelligent.

I know a few people (my younger cousin is one) who lives totally in the stream/cloud through her phone.

Power went out up at her place for 3 days. Cell towers died. When they got service back, first thing she did was call and ask how much it would be to get a good backup drive for her apartment.

It only takes once, trust me.
11/12/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Troposphere
have a samsung evo since 2015 changed my life. My friend who makes much more money than I do has a pretty good PC he built in 2015. He has an i7 6700k , 32 Gb of DDR4 2400 and he had an R9 he upgraded to a Gtx 1080 in 2016.


Just get him one for Christmas, then he'll have no choice but to install it. XD M.2 PCIe is the way to go for OS booting imo. It's crazy fast! all 3 of my PCs are setup this way and I will never change that.
11/12/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Kagthul
11/12/2018 08:40 PMPosted by Ziryus

The other thing is that with the rise of streaming and easy access to downloadable media the need for massive amounts of on site storage is also decreasing. So in all but the cheapest of builds an SSD is easily affordable you just might find yourself not able to have every game loaded all the time.


This entirely depends on where you live, particularly in the US.

Relying on streaming is a great way to not have your content when you want it, and a great way to hit your bandwidth cap every month even if you dont have reliability issues.

Especially as the big internet providers are being more de-regulated than ever - they are imposing bandwidth caps.

I had to switch to Business Class for my home use because Comcast imposed a 1TB cap per month. And 5$/GB overage fees.

As i had just cut the cord as it were (dropped Cable for Sling and Netflix), that quickly became untennable, as using Sling as a TV replacement was putting us at ~600GB a month easily. Screw us if we had to download any games or anything.

Ironically, Business Class was cheaper for better speeds and (automatically) no data cap. Or i could have paid ANOTHER 50$ on top of the already ridiculous 120$ i was paying for Internet on a residential line (that had a 1TB cap).

So i dont think the "you dont need lots of onboard storage" really works for as many people as a lot of people think. Anyone living in a sole or dualopoly area almost assuredly has a data cap or will soon now that Comcast and Verizon have shown that they can get away with it (particularly if the other half of the available internet is crappy DSL service). And bandwidth needs for streaming are going UP.

All that TV we stream is in 720p or 1080p (depending on the channel on Sling, 1080p for Netflix). If we streamed in 4k we'd be well over 2-3TB/month. 4k streams devour bandwidth.

In areas with healthy competition (just a few towns over, my former roomates from my single days still live in an area with 4 providers; they pay 80$ for 125/25, an HDTV package, and a phone; at my house that would cost almost 200$ - less than 30 miles away; and thats Comcast in both cases) you can maybe get away with that. But there are a lot less of those places, and since the FCC is now basically a shill front for those companies, there are going to be even less as they are now allowing mergers and trades that would never have been contemplated before to create more single-provider areas. Comcast, for instance, just bought a huge swath of Wide-Open-West's infrastructure here in MI on the western side of the state, and sold/traded WOW all of their infrastructure int he northern half of the lower peninsula.... now they no longer compete. Prices went up 25% within days. And both companies instituted data caps in their now monopolies.

Until and unless the US (and other countries. Canada has it WORSE) gets its head out and gets with the rest of the world, streaming is still going to be limited and having your content on a drive is always going to be preferable if you're intelligent.

I know a few people (my younger cousin is one) who lives totally in the stream/cloud through her phone.

Power went out up at her place for 3 days. Cell towers died. When they got service back, first thing she did was call and ask how much it would be to get a good backup drive for her apartment.

It only takes once, trust me.


I don't disagree, on the other hand I don't think that most people need terabytes of local storage for average use. So when you look at the difference in price between say a 4TB spinner and a 512GB or even a 256GB SSD the price difference really isn't that much. The price difference per GB might be a lot higher but the cost for what you actually need is a lot less.

A 512 GB drive would be enough for windows, a couple big games and a number of smaller games. As well as room for the standard utility, office, adobe, room for pictures etc.... And realistically you probably won't be doing something like massive CAD projects or video editting on a budget build anyways.

And at that point you have to seriously ask if even on the most budget of builds whether or not that performance improvement is worth potentially having to juggle what you have on your local drive.
I have an old samsung 830 SSD I gave to my nephew for his pc couple years ago and did a drive test last year and it still had tons of life left. Reliability has gotten a lot better since then so he should have no worries. Its also laughable to buy an i7 and 1080 but yet stay away from SSD's.
Can I still post
I'd rather have a i7-2700k with a SSD than a 8700k and 5400rpm drive.
SSD's are nice but standard HDD's are generally find for stuff most people need anyway. An SSD makes booting up faster, but you generally only do that once a day. They make load times faster, but otherwise have little to no impact on actual gameplay. They don't increase internet speed. They have significantly less storage capacity. They can degrade faster than people realize for those still running Windows 7 (surprises me how many people use Win 7 SSD's and forget to disable defrag).

I personally can't stand dealing with HDD's anymore, but when asking a client recently what they thought of their upgrade, his response was insightful: "haven't really noticed much since I normally go make coffee when I turn the computer on."

It's easy to assume everyone has the same expectations and goals as us just because we share other similarities (paying games, etc). If he doesn't want an SSD, don't lose sleep over it. He'll upgrade when he wants to.
Just buy some Optane. Problem solved.

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