Alliance Darkshore questline

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10/08/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Darethy
10/08/2018 07:58 PMPosted by Katiera
...

Divided lol you would have a case if the alliance lost zanladar or darkshore


Except as we know, Darkshore is a warfront. The Hordes on a backfoot, not eradicated, and if they can't even secure a foothold in Kalimdor the rest of the war is going to be very hard.

The Alliance is opening a front they don't need to open.


At the end of zandalar the horde comfirms that the alliance is winning all the fronts.
<span class="truncated">...</span>because what do you think will happen if the horde win the war and stormwind is destroyed with the night elves inside? the rest of their race will die with them. if they fight for the alliance they have at least a chance of survival, but if they try to branch out on their own and go after such difficult targets they will just be easy prey to be hunted.


So the night elves should sacrifice their homeland, more of their people, and their independence to help the humans pursue human interests while night elves get nothing in return? Why? That's an incredibly 1 sided "alliance."


That's one way to look at it. On the flipside if Stormwind falls there very definitely won't be any Night Elves to reclaim anything.

[quote="207684379929"]<span class="truncated">...</span>

Divided lol you would have a case if the alliance lost zanladar or darkshore


Except as we know, Darkshore is a warfront. The Hordes on a backfoot, not eradicated, and if they can't even secure a foothold in Kalimdor the rest of the war is going to be very hard.

The Alliance is opening a front they don't need to open.


Winning=/=Destroyed.
10/08/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Lena
10/08/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Saiphas
Are you serious lena? The taking of Stormwind was what created the Alliance, in part for the express purpose of the refugees of Stormwind to retake their homeland. It was being used for fell purposes as well! like the OG deathknights are the bodies of humans grafted with the souls of warlocks into them


Yes, I'm serious.

The night elves are part of an alliance and the other members have an obligation to come to the night elves' aid. The other members are failing to meet their obligation to the night elves.

Stormwind during the first war was not part of an alliance so no one had any obligation to aid them.


If you can't see how the Night Elves directly parallel the tale of Stormwind I really can't Help you, the Refugees of Stormwind JOINED the Alliance and fought side by side to stave off the Attack of the original horde in Lordearon FIRST knowing that the invading force needed to be repelled back. Hell Chronicles makes a huge deal about how SW started became isolationist before the first war, then went on to sacrifice themselves for the defense of the other human kingdoms because they did not want another land to suffer their same fate! The Alliance hasn't abandoned the night elves, but the situation is Akin to the Second War writ large, hell the Devs have said as much.
10/08/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Darethy
That's one way to look at it. On the flipside if Stormwind falls there very definitely won't be any Night Elves to reclaim anything.


There won't be anything to reclaim since Anduin's intent on dragging out this war as long as possible to ensure the suffering of the night elves.

10/08/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Saiphas
If you can't see how the Night Elves directly parallel the tale of Stormwind I really can't Help you, the Refugees of Stormwind JOINED the Alliance and fought side by side to stave off the Attack of the original horde in Lordearon FIRST knowing that the invading force needed to be repelled back. Hell Chronicles makes a huge deal about how SW started became isolationist before the first war, then went on to sacrifice themselves for the defense of the other human kingdoms because they did not want another land to suffer their same fate! The Alliance hasn't abandoned the night elves, but the situation is Akin to the Second War writ large, hell the Devs have said as much.


It's not the same situation. The other human nations had no obligation to help Stormwind until Stormwind had helped out the other nations against the orcs. Then the Alliance pushed south to reclaim Stormwind.

And the night elves are abandoned. That's why Tyrande's having to go off on her own.
10/08/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Darethy
That's one way to look at it. On the flipside if Stormwind falls there very definitely won't be any Night Elves to reclaim anything.


There won't be anything to reclaim since Anduin's intent on dragging out this war as long as possible to ensure the suffering of the night elves.


well now we know she is trolling
10/08/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Darethy
That's one way to look at it. On the flipside if Stormwind falls there very definitely won't be any Night Elves to reclaim anything.


There won't be anything to reclaim since Anduin's intent on dragging out this war as long as possible to ensure the suffering of the night elves.


Anduin is, in retrospect, making the only correct choice in this scenario by putting the sentimental value of Kalimdor behind the survival of all the Alliance including the Ni-

Gah, look what you've done Salphas. You actually got me to like Anduin.
to help the humans pursue human interests while night elves get nothing in return? Why?
because survival for stormwind means survival for the night elves. survival is victory, and if the war is won then the night elves can go back home clean up the blight and regrow their forests. but if the war is lost because the alliance spread their forces too thin to attack difficult targets that would result in high causalities, then they will never get that chance, as they would be dead.

it sucks but the night elves were dealt a bad hand, and now they have to play it
10/08/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Lena
10/08/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Darethy
That's one way to look at it. On the flipside if Stormwind falls there very definitely won't be any Night Elves to reclaim anything.


There won't be anything to reclaim since Anduin's intent on dragging out this war as long as possible to ensure the suffering of the night elves.

10/08/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Saiphas
If you can't see how the Night Elves directly parallel the tale of Stormwind I really can't Help you, the Refugees of Stormwind JOINED the Alliance and fought side by side to stave off the Attack of the original horde in Lordearon FIRST knowing that the invading force needed to be repelled back. Hell Chronicles makes a huge deal about how SW started became isolationist before the first war, then went on to sacrifice themselves for the defense of the other human kingdoms because they did not want another land to suffer their same fate! The Alliance hasn't abandoned the night elves, but the situation is Akin to the Second War writ large, hell the Devs have said as much.


It's not the same situation. The other human nations had no obligation to help Stormwind until Stormwind had helped out the other nations against the orcs. Then the Alliance pushed south to reclaim Stormwind.

And the night elves are abandoned. That's why Tyrande's having to go off on her own.


Like...Have you READ Tides of Darnkness or read Chronicle 2? I am genuinely asking, because your characterization of the events is...lacking a hell of alot of context, and well is completely off really.

edit:@ Darethy HA!
Tyrande isnt by herself too, genn and the worgen go with her.
10/08/2018 08:07 PMPosted by Katiera
well now we know she is trolling


He's refusing to press the advantage after Zandalar. You know who suffers because of that? Night elves.

10/08/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Withpuppys
because survival for stormwind means survival for the night elves. survival is victory, and if the war is won then the night elves can go back home clean up the blight and regrow their forests. but if the war is lost because the alliance spread their forces too thin to attack difficult targets that would result in high causalities, then they will never get that chance, as they would be dead.

it sucks but the night elves were dealt a bad hand, and now they have to play it


The night elves can not win this war unless they take their lands back now. Anything else is a loss.
Why do you think they need to take back their lands right now Lena?
10/08/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Lena
The night elves can not win this war unless they take their lands back now.
they can't win this war if they spread their forces too thin, to attack targets that only have emotional value, as i said after the war they can go back home and clean up and regrow. but until then they simply need to fight the war as it is, going after higher priority targets like dealing with the zandalari threat
10/08/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Darethy
10/08/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Darethy
....I also like it for the admittedly guilty reason it's nice to see the Alliance as a house divided for once.


Except as we know, Darkshore is a warfront. The Hordes on a backfoot, not eradicated, and if they can't even secure a foothold in Kalimdor the rest of the war is going to be very hard.

The Alliance is opening a front they don't need to open.

Hey, remember this conversation we were having the other day?

10/06/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Amadis
10/06/2018 08:11 PMPosted by Darethy
The negativity on the forum has been choking, when all everyone does is beat you about the head with how awful the story is it's hard not to see anything through the glasses of red vs blue. Like it or not I also stand by that Night Elves have gotten good portions of narrative this expansion, even if things aren't great as a whole. Tyrande breaking from the Alliance hegemony is the first actual act of independence the Alliance has had in years.

I might have missed it, but I don't recall you ever pointing out how independence and breaking away from the Alliance hegemony actually progresses the Night Elf story in a positive way. And really, what little other discussion I've seen about it forebodes for things getting worse, not better:

09/29/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Duras
The best part about his split is they are handing the horde a major path to victory as the alliance splitting with the worgen and nelfs doing their own thing it might open a major opportunity for the horde to turn the tide in the places Anduin was talking about
09/29/2018 02:19 PMPosted by Samurok
What further crisis might the Night Elves and Worgen have been there react to, but now won’t be.

Don’t be surprised if this doesn’t come back to bite you. This is only the 1st patch.
10/08/2018 08:11 PMPosted by Kordana
Why do you think they need to take back their lands right now Lena?


Because they're being blighted by the Scourge. If they don't take them now they'll be uninhabitable.

10/08/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Withpuppys
they can't win this war if they spread their forces too thin, to attack targets that only have emotional value, as i said after the war they can go back home and clean up and regrow. but until then they simply need to fight the war as it is, going after higher priority targets like dealing with the zandalari threat


They can't go home if everything is blighted.
10/08/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Lena
The night elves can not win this war unless they take their lands back now. Anything else is a loss.
What? What would taking back Darkshore now do? What is the strategic objective there? Do you think they are going to start training more archers and building Ancients of War? Sounds like your interpretation of warfare is limited to RTS games.
10/08/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Lena
They can't go home if everything is blighted.
blight can be cleaned up, it will take time, but it can be cleaned up.
10/08/2018 08:16 PMPosted by Cytriss
What? What would taking back Darkshore now do? What is the strategic objective there? Do you think they are going to start training more archers and building Ancients of War? Sounds like your interpretation of warfare is limited to RTS games.


Prevent it from being destroyed.

10/08/2018 08:16 PMPosted by Withpuppys
blight can be cleaned up, it will take time, but it can be cleaned up.


*looks at South Shore*

Yeah, sure it can.
10/08/2018 08:16 PMPosted by Withpuppys
10/08/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Lena
They can't go home if everything is blighted.
blight can be cleaned up, it will take time, but it can be cleaned up.


Hell, its not like its Fell energy which completely destroys the land and takes eons to heal
Now I have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of liking both Anduin Wrynn and Sylvanas Windrunner, that's just weird.

10/08/2018 08:14 PMPosted by Amadis
10/08/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Darethy
...

Except as we know, Darkshore is a warfront. The Hordes on a backfoot, not eradicated, and if they can't even secure a foothold in Kalimdor the rest of the war is going to be very hard.

The Alliance is opening a front they don't need to open.

Hey, remember this conversation we were having the other day?

10/06/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Amadis
...
I might have missed it, but I don't recall you ever pointing out how independence and breaking away from the Alliance hegemony actually progresses the Night Elf story in a positive way. And really, what little other discussion I've seen about it forebodes for things getting worse, not better:

......


I did point out to Grandblade that the Night Elves aren't wrong for wanting to protect their homeland, I can greatly sympathize with that emotion. But Withpuppies is right, it is not the logical choice to take.

I suppose it depends if you want the Night Elves to follow their heart or their head on this one.
10/08/2018 07:54 PMPosted by Darethy
I like this development pretty much exactly *because* of the conversation Withpuppies and Lena are having. Neither of them are wrong per say, it's just emotion vs rationality.


They are both right and wrong. The real tragedy is we know exactly which path Blizzard is going to choose and it won't surprise anyone with how its implemented, and they will expect everyone to be content with it.

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