If you don't like Flying, why should others who like it be affected?

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Keep seeing this: "Pathfinder was blizzards compromise to flying, do it or dont fly."

You guys forget the 3rd option there.. How about people just not pay or play? The majority of people made their desire real effin clear when it was announced flying would not be reintroduced back in WoD. Blizzs compromise wasnt a compromise, it was an "Ok, well !@#$ you too".. And that's where it's remained. It's a spiteful decision. It's not a compromise. They dont allow flying in any relevant zone at all anymore. You are forced to do ever last quest and WQ's 100 times over before you get flying. It's a joke. The game has lost masses of subs since the days of MoP where flying was last embraced. It's real obvious the majority were satisfied with a license at cap. That option should have never left the game.

Tired of seeing this "Its either this or that" BS too... PF can remain for the people that like it, but a license should be released for purchase at the same time PF part 2 is released for those of us who dont want to do the mind numbing rep grinds.
I am neutral on the issue. However I can see where people are coming from concerning design. If flight is allowed from the start, challenge, and therefore the game, has to be developed around flight possibly resulting in a less developed experience for those who wish to remain grounded.
10/10/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Mvura
...
LOL.

Your point is nonsensical.


K.

How is a ground mount a comparable choice to a flying mount mechanically?

I never said it was. What I did state is that players who elect to remain on their ground mounts have that option despite the availability of flight. That's their choice.

The option is entirely the player's. Don't really see a problem here.
10/10/2018 01:56 PMPosted by Denona
10/09/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Righteous
You know, there really should be a price tag put on purchasing flying for those who don't like to play the game.


Why are you even playing the game if you don't like to play it?

BTW, flying is necessary to reach some dungeons / raids from TBC -> MoP.

Such as,
the Tempest Keep instances
Naxx
Ulduar instances, mainly the raid
ICC dungeons
Blackwing Decent
Bastion of Twilight
Skywall instances (Vortex Pin / TotFW)
Stonecore
Mogu'shan vaults

So saying "not fly if you hate it" is kinda stupid, as by saying that, you want to lock old content from players.

Nonsense. Some players who post on these threads claim that they don't like to fly and prefer their ground mounts. This preference necessarily will preclude access to certain zones. But if this is what some players prefer, so be it.

It sounds more as if your complaint is that there are areas in-game that require flight to access. That's not a player problem.

BTW, absolutely no one has stated that those who don't want to fly cannot do so, only that they have the option not to do so.
10/10/2018 05:42 AMPosted by Druidboì
Pathfinder is here to stay buddy take it or leave it, but stop complaining about it

You can wallow in mediocrity, some of us will bang on this drum until Blizzard finally changes something. If you don't like it, stop posting in these threads telling us to shut up. It's pointless and unhelpful to the extreme. It adds nothing to the conversation and only serves to make you look like a stick in the mud who will accept any change that Blizzard implements.

10/10/2018 05:47 AMPosted by Velara
No. 80 was the base for Wrath until the Tome was introduced. That was later in WOLTK.

Once the tome was introduced your main could buy it and send it to an alt, who could use it at level 77.

WotLK launched with flying available at level 77. The tome that was added later allowed for Northrend flying at level 68.

10/10/2018 06:03 AMPosted by Mvura
Want flying? Do the absurdly simple task of playing through the questing portion of the game.

If it were that simple, we would be flying already.
10/10/2018 06:23 AMPosted by Kopitar
You do realize that it was Blizzards choice to originally remove flying starting with WoD right? They didn't do it because people wanted it removed. THEY wanted it removed. They then gave their compromise. So your choice is no flying or do pathfinder to unlock it. I prefer Pathfinder. If you can't handle it then I guess no flying for you. But, they are not going to go back to the old way since they want it out of the game in the first place. Adapt to change or move on.

You say this despite Pathfinder existing because we forced them to change once already. Now you act as if they can never change their minds again.

10/10/2018 06:41 AMPosted by Mvura
They wanted to remove it because they wanted to be able to do more interesting things in the open world around questing. It also wasn't an and open and shut case as they put it - there was disagreement internally.

Too bad they kinda forgot to put in any of this new and interesting stuff in the open world. Especially during WoD, which was supposed to be the poster child of no-flying.

10/10/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Alisiaa
Because if one person is flying, they will have an advantage over the person not flying

And if someone else can play longer than you, they will also have an advantage over you. I guess that means you can never log off since you lack the required amount of self control to stop yourself from keeping up with some imaginary super-farmer.

10/10/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Alisiaa
The people who don't want flying, want everyone on the same level. It's meaningless if the people around them have flight, because by that point, Ground Mounts are just a personal handicap if used.

I guess we should force everyone to play the same amount of time, we should also force everyone to play the same class and spec when out in the world. Can't have any variation that would allow someone to be better than someone else at farming. Because farming is apparently the single most important aspect of this game.

10/10/2018 11:58 AMPosted by Righteous
I'd say you're a bit delusional to think that a dev would respond in a thread regarding flying, when they already have the path to it set in stone for what, 3 expansions now? I don't ever expect that to change, and if it does, they would change it to where you'd most likely say that pathfinder was better/easier.

And we had a path set in stone for four expansions. Stop acting like the current system will never change again.
because it's against what blizz wants. they aren't here to grant wishes. They didn't disable flying because community asked them to do so if that's what you think
10/10/2018 12:50 PMPosted by Rizlet
Blizzard's game, Blizzard's rules, thank you much!

And one of the reasons Blizzard set up these forums was to facilitate feedback about the game. They know the game isn't perfect and could use improvements, something some players seem to want to ignore in their haste to defend Blizzard at any cost.

10/10/2018 12:50 PMPosted by Rizlet
The amount of pure, unadulterated bile spilled was appalling, I've seen tantrumming two year olds that were more reasonable.

There has been some childishness from some people who want flying. However, there has been far more bile and hatred flung toward us by people who are against flying. They act like we kicked their dogs or something with how many insults they fling at us.

10/10/2018 12:50 PMPosted by Rizlet
Sleep with the dog, wake up with fleas. If you're a nice person who is just frustrated with the rules and wish they would change, you're keeping company with some honest to sprockets entitled jerks and I don't have sympathy for you anymore.

I've been arguing for flight ever since they announced that flying would not be immediately available in WoD. And over the years, some of the most vile and disgusting remarks have come from people against flying, so that's the company you're keeping with by attacking those of us who are willing to voice our displeasure about the game.

10/10/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Ralanthel
Perfect metaphor time: You're not asking for the moon. You're just complaining because it is 1:30 in the afternoon and you want the moon out NOW!

That's not a perfect metaphor at all.

10/10/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Ralanthel
Everyone knows flying is coming, there is no need to keep asking for it. And time spent farming wont be affected by flight. Someone who plays 2 hours a day will still get out farmed by someone who plays for 4. The numbers will just be inflated by flight and the prices of gatherables will drop, that is how it has always worked.

There absolutely is a need to ask for it now instead of several months from now. Especially if they have even the slightest idea of putting in more no-flying zones later on.

10/10/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Ralanthel
Also, I never mentioned anything about how anyone "feels." I did say that you (by "you" I mean the flight demanders) act miserable whenever you can't fly. It's just that, an act. Something to complain about. I'm tired of the CONSTANT complaint threads about "waa, my flight."

Then don't click on the threads. You've got the rest of the internet to entertain yourself with instead of forcing yourself to click on a few threads about a topic that doesn't interest you.

10/10/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Ralanthel
You're welcome to have a different opinion, but people need to stop complaining and causing a stink about something that is already guaranteed to be happening. Just play the game and you will eventually have flight.

Guaranteed to happen isn't good enough because the timeline on when that guaranteed will happen is far too late into the expansion. Flying should be available somewhere around 2-4 months into the expansion, not over 6 months after launch.

10/10/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Braxz
The thing about flying is it completely trivializes the world in most cases. Anything you wan't to get to, you can get there in almost no time. It doesn't really feel like there is a journey attached to things anymore. This isn't as big of a deal in modern wow because the only thing really out in the world are world quests, most everything else is just queued for with the exception of M+ and raid entrances.

Flying makes it easier to get to content. It does not make the content easier to do. If anything, group finder does far more to trivialize content by allowing you to group up instantly and zerg down anything that would be even slightly difficult to do alone.

10/10/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Terranox
I want flying as much as anyone but the arguement is stupid. You can not tell people not to fly then cause it does change the game. And you van not say it doesnt change how the game is played now.

It doesn't change the game nearly as much as the no-flying people keep saying it does. And if they're that concerned about flying, they should be equally concerned about anything else that causes an unequal playing field. But they aren't. They only protest flying, which means their concerns are bunk.

10/10/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Terranox
Every game you play has rules and this games rules is to wait till pathfinder 2 comes out. And continue using ground mounts. So far I got 4 120s to max with no flying. But its not like there is much need to go around besides questing and wanting to gather herbs even faster.

The rules of this game have changed a few hundred times over the past 14 years. The rules will change even more in the future. Stop acting like what we have now is all we will ever have.

Oh, and I also have four 120s, just got my Druid up to 120 a few days ago, mostly through Island Expeditions because I'd rather have a chance to earn pets, mounts, and toys instead of doing the world content for a fourth time.

10/10/2018 01:59 PMPosted by Mvura
It has everything to do with the depth of the content. The #1 stated reason for the feature being challenged at all had everything to do with being able to create directed open world content.

And what have they done since then that couldn't be done with flying enabled? And that's disregarding how easy it is to disable flying for questing purposes, even after flying is available. Remember the legendary ring quest line back in WoD? If you attempted to fly around when you were supposed to be sneaking in with Garona, Khadgar would port you back to the start and remind you that you were supposed to be sneaking in. Same deal with the legendary daggers quest line back in Cata. They absolutely can keep us grounded for specific story points, but they have seemingly forgotten that they have that ability.
10/11/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Auchenai
because it's against what blizz wants. they aren't here to grant wishes. They didn't disable flying because community asked them to do so if that's what you think
you should probably read the last few responses before yours.
10/09/2018 03:07 PMPosted by Stridex
I don't understand why people have to fly over the world missing all of the art that was put into the landscape of World of Warcraft.


Dude I’ve been meaning to ask this question for 20 years; when parrots speak, are they actually conversing or just making noise?
10/10/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Aehl
this is especially !@#$ in a pvp settings.


So again its "you shouldnt fly because pvp"

My war mode is off. Permanently.

So why should your pvp affect me when I dont pvp at all?


It shouldn't. Players that have warmode off should have the ability to fly. Upon flying being released, it should be disabled in warmode and the reward bumped up to 15%.
10/10/2018 02:15 PMPosted by Feranar
Wow is a competitive game by nature. If others have flying while you do not, you suffer as you fall behind the curve on gearing from WQ, getting ganked by hotdrop air squads, and being late to rare mount spawns and the like.

The open world has never been fair or balanced. It is impossible to be competitive in that regard, especially since there is no way to rank yourself against other people out in the world. There's no warcraftlogs or raider.io for people who gather a lot of mats or do a lot of world quests.

10/10/2018 02:15 PMPosted by Feranar
Flying is basicly near complete immunity from ganking as well as the ability to evade almost all pve obstacles. It breaks the game.

It does not evade ganking, the net-o-matic makes sure of that. And for PVE, it only allows easier evading of the pointless trash mobs that you were going to evade anyway. If they wanted us to care about trash mobs, then they should have improved upon the shoulder enchants from Legion. At least those rewarded killing mobs that you would otherwise ignore.

10/10/2018 02:22 PMPosted by Donnalupo
For flight you have to compensate for not only how much faster the mounts are, but their ability to skip terrain and avoid BOTH NPC and PVP confrontation. 300% is conservative.

300% is ludicrously overinflated. PVP confrontations do not vanish with flying. The net-o-matic makes sure that you're never 100% safe. And that could also be solved by removing the xp and world quest bonuses if you fly in warmode.

The NPC interactions that you avoid would be the same ones you do your best to avoid on the ground. If Blizzard really cared about us killing those trash mobs, they would do a better job about making us care about killing them instead of doing our best to avoid them.

10/10/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Righteous
To me, it's illogical to continue to pay for something that you dislike.

So why did so many people who hate flying manage to stay subscribed through the four expansions that allowed easy access to flying from the very start?

10/10/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Kayenna
Blizz even regrets flying so saying it's players is your own ignorance and denial, flying was only implemented because the flight path system waa horrible bit as the game evolved blizz finally fixed it's broken system, honestly blizz probably wishes they had never introduced flying at this point with as many people who feel entitled to fly at all times

Some devs regret flying, some don't. Don't act like Blizzard is a monolithic hive mind.
10/09/2018 03:04 PMPosted by Lightfaller
I can never understand why people have to literally drag others to the ground with them if they don't want to soar the skies and marvel at the world Blizzard created.

I would really like to see a strong argument why the thing that people enjoy would have it taken from them or be gated through grinding or even time just because you don't like it. And the fact that you can stay on the ground if you want to.


Because the game is better off without flying. It was a huge mistake, and began a slippery slope of everyone wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter. It allows you to skip content, making it much harder for the devs to develop compelling content. It allows you to do everything much more quickly, which also leads to everyone wanting EVERYTHING to be done more quickly.

As for the ridiculous argument about why people who hate flying don't just stay on the ground, it's because this is a multiplayer game, and in one way or another, we are all "competing" against each other, whether for harvesting mats, mobs, or simply the time it takes us to progress as a character. Flying directly affects all of these, so expecting the people who dislike flying in the game to handicap themselves against those who do is simply moronic.

Just admit it, you want the game to be easier. You want "tedious" obstacles removed from your path. You are the type of player that has ruined the genre for many of us older players who have an attention span and understand what commitment and achievement are. Get off my lawn.
10/10/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Donnalupo
Is it the aesthetic of flying that you love or the increased efficiency? Or both?

Would you be opposed to a "Flight Mode" check box, similar to war mode? If you select ground mode you get +300% gold/rep and skins from mob and ore/herbs from nodes to make up for choosing a less efficient aesthetic ? Serious question.


While your 300% is the stupidest !@#$ I have read today, yes I would take a deduction in my gathered mats to be able to fly, but 300% for someone to stay grounded is just fking dumb. How about I lose 10-20% of my gold/resources if I choose to fly. I mean even warmode only gives 10% exp with it on. Also if warmode is on the flight is disabled. I don't care for pathfinder but make pathfinder 1 unlock flight.
10/10/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Aehl
...

So again its "you shouldnt fly because pvp"

My war mode is off. Permanently.

So why should your pvp affect me when I dont pvp at all?


It shouldn't. Players that have warmode off should have the ability to fly. Upon flying being released, it should be disabled in warmode and the reward bumped up to 15%.

I wouldn't even consider slow flying, let alone no flying for a measly 5%.
The fact that people already need to be bribed to flag themselves, as well as the fact that the bribe clearly isn't big enough for a very sizable portion of the playerbase should tell you that most people just don't like world pvp.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

It shouldn't. Players that have warmode off should have the ability to fly. Upon flying being released, it should be disabled in warmode and the reward bumped up to 15%.

I wouldn't even consider slow flying, let alone no flying for a measly 5%.
The fact that people already need to be bribed to flag themselves, as well as the fact that the bribe clearly isn't big enough for a very sizable portion of the playerbase should tell you that most people just don't like world pvp.


No we don't like bad sharding, crz, and phasing tech that they've provided. With pretty much no World Quests that reward Conquest, no structures to fight over, hell even the Warfront which is supposed to be faction based is just 1 faction going out and killing rares and the World Boss.

We also don't like servers that can't handle raid fights of around 20 on both sides without lagging horribly. And if you get around 40 people on both sides it's slideshow pvp.

Sorry. But the system is flawed at its core. Has nothing to do with the interest levels of the playerbase when there's pretty much 0 innovative ideas for the World PvP scene.
10/09/2018 03:04 PMPosted by Lightfaller
I can never understand why people have to literally drag others to the ground with them if they don't want to soar the skies and marvel at the world Blizzard created.

I would really like to see a strong argument why the thing that people enjoy would have it taken from them or be gated through grinding or even time just because you don't like it. And the fact that you can stay on the ground if you want to.


What on earth are you talking about? NO player is keeping ANY other player from flying! Blizzard decided on the time-gating and pathfinder-gating rules WITHOUT asking players their opinion.

I've been in the forum for years, and the flying argument has 2 sides, NEITHER of them saying "we don't want flying". The 2 sides are:

1) Players who demand flying as their "right", and claim Blizzard has no right to withhold it.

2) Players who say that Blizzard can make up its own rules.

See? No players on the "non-flying" side. It has never been a debate between players. Blizzard has never offered to let players decided this.
10/11/2018 03:00 AMPosted by Qri

See? No players on the "non-flying" side. It has never been a debate between players. Blizzard has never offered to let players decided this.


While I understand your point, I am firmly on the "non-flying" side. Not that my opinion means anything to Blizzard, but they do have people who agree with their stance at least...

In the end, the blame in all of this lies with Blizzard. For many years, they did anything they could to make the game more "accessible" to today's gamer. They got caught up in "Quality of Life" improvements for so long, they lost sight of what that term means, and what it was doing to the game. Whether it be ease of leveling, flying, gold acquisition, or any number of other examples, they gave the player way too much. Now that they have come to their senses and are trying to "take back" their game, they are getting the expected pushback from a coddled playerbase.
10/11/2018 02:24 AMPosted by Tornado
Because the game is better off without flying. It was a huge mistake, and began a slippery slope of everyone wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter. It allows you to skip content, making it much harder for the devs to develop compelling content. It allows you to do everything much more quickly, which also leads to everyone wanting EVERYTHING to be done more quickly.

No, flying lets you get to the content you want to do more quickly. It doesn't complete quests, kill mobs, or loot stuff for me.

10/11/2018 02:24 AMPosted by Tornado
As for the ridiculous argument about why people who hate flying don't just stay on the ground, it's because this is a multiplayer game, and in one way or another, we are all "competing" against each other, whether for harvesting mats, mobs, or simply the time it takes us to progress as a character. Flying directly affects all of these, so expecting the people who dislike flying in the game to handicap themselves against those who do is simply moronic.

Show me where there is any sort of ranking for world content completion. And if you're so concerned about this so-called "competition" then I hope you spend every waking second playing the game, because otherwise someone out there would have an advantage over you. In fact, you shouldn't even have time to post on the forums, you might be falling behind someone who's busy playing the game.

10/11/2018 03:00 AMPosted by Qri
I've been in the forum for years, and the flying argument has 2 sides, NEITHER of them saying "we don't want flying". The 2 sides are:

Then you haven't been paying attention, even in this thread there are examples of people who don't want flying.
10/11/2018 01:41 AMPosted by Rankin
10/10/2018 05:42 AMPosted by Druidboì
Pathfinder is here to stay buddy take it or leave it, but stop complaining about it

You can wallow in mediocrity, some of us will bang on this drum until Blizzard finally changes something. If you don't like it, stop posting in these threads telling us to shut up. It's pointless and unhelpful to the extreme. It adds nothing to the conversation and only serves to make you look like a stick in the mud who will accept any change that Blizzard implements.

10/10/2018 05:47 AMPosted by Velara
No. 80 was the base for Wrath until the Tome was introduced. That was later in WOLTK.

Once the tome was introduced your main could buy it and send it to an alt, who could use it at level 77.

WotLK launched with flying available at level 77. The tome that was added later allowed for Northrend flying at level 68.

10/10/2018 06:03 AMPosted by Mvura
Want flying? Do the absurdly simple task of playing through the questing portion of the game.

If it were that simple, we would be flying already.

Rankin, WOTLK flight was available at launch but you first had to reach 80. The Tome permitting your alts to fly at 77 was made available in a later patch -- but you had to have at least one toon at 80 to buy it. The requirements may have been relaxed sometime thereafter, but the original requirement was max level.

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