8.1 Actual evil things done by the Alliance

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Why should I care about a race that I never liked in the first place?
I’m not even mad at the purge squad, but why couldn’t they sprinkle in some Zandalari? The Alliance are supposed to hate goblins and Forsaken too.

At least Brennadam can be explained as killing old horde enemies.
10/18/2018 03:00 PMPosted by Saiphas


Edit: look I made a snark that was uncalled for, we won’t see eye to eye in this issue, let’s just agree to disagree


I didn’t even see it before the edit, so no harm done. Fair call on the ceasefire. I was probably a little more sassy than I needed to be as well.
10/18/2018 03:18 PMPosted by Yersynia
10/18/2018 03:00 PMPosted by Saiphas


Edit: look I made a snark that was uncalled for, we won’t see eye to eye in this issue, let’s just agree to disagree


I didn’t even see it before the edit, so no harm done. Fair call on the ceasefire. I was probably a little more sassy than I needed to be as well.


As an aside, and I hope it keeps coming through in my posts, I absolutely despise this faction war !@#$ for how it turns the Players against each other. It goes beyond friendly banter and competition and gets you to people who only seek Schadenfreude in the misery of others. I absolutely DESPISE that.
10/18/2018 12:12 PMPosted by Jerrod
10/18/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Ningjinq
...

I just never see anyone bringing it up in trying to prove the Alliance do bad things. It’s always Taraujo and Dalaran. How’d people forget this?

Sure there can be a discussion about just how enslaved they truly are but i never see the discussion.


It's not really brought up because the commander was gradually sliding into a sha induced insanity and it's hard to insist that what happened wasn't influneced by that fact. That and in typical horde fashion when the alliance kicks a puppy (forced pandaren labor) they burn down an orphanage (kidnapping children to extort slave labor from the pandaren), and since this forum can't have a discussion without whataboutisms it's honestly just better to leave it alone.


Well, this too could be explained by a similar corrupting force in Azerite. Just because Anduin saw its dangers doesn’t mean that idea is shared by the entire Alliance.
10/18/2018 03:18 PMPosted by Arlifrex
I’m not even mad at the purge squad, but why couldn’t they sprinkle in some Zandalari? The Alliance are supposed to hate goblins and Forsaken too.

At least Brennadam can be explained as killing old horde enemies.


I think it’s a matter of perspective. The Vulpera are nomads so don’t have any central government but after the questing in Vol’dun, they are essentially allies of the Zandalari.

Does that make them a legitimate target? Is a “neutral” supplier of materials (they would not be trading with the Alliance) a legitimate target?

Sure the Alliance is going waaaaay overboard here, but if they occupied Vol’dun to attack the Zandalari, I don’t think the Vulpera would’ve stood for that.
10/17/2018 11:53 PMPosted by Tharandal
10/17/2018 10:38 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
The Alliance probably sees them as "Desert Kobolds". Weak, subhuman even though they speak English, and to be purged.


...Not that the Alliance is even that proactive about exterminating Kobolds. About the only time Alliance toons are sent out after them is when they're kicking up enough of a stink to draw official attention.
Or when Stormwind candle merchants pay adventures to slaughter Kobolds for their candles.

https://www.wowhead.com/quest=60/kobold-candles
10/17/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Kelrexia
What assets do the vulpera provide the Horde? Literally the only ones I've seen this expansion have all been pirates.
They make up the majority of the Voldunai faction, which is our rep faction in Vol'dun. So they provide us with...all the stuff that, say, Order of Embers or Storm's Wake provides to the Alliance.


Well, Order of Embers gave us Lucy Waycrest, who is the best female character in the expansion and quite possibly the game as well.

Other than that, jack!@#$. That about right?

Dear Alliance players,

...

It's called the Villain Bat(tm). You didn't want it. You don't like it. No one does. It feels bad. It makes you sad and angry in equal measure. It makes you question why your otherwise heroic PC would be OK with these actions, and why he/she is powerless to do anything to stop it. It makes you feel like either a moron or a goosestepping minion when you have to blindly accept quests from the same people BBQing little foxes inside their caravans just so you can progress in the story. It betrays everything you believe about your character and your faction.


For me personally, I would be 100% okay with this if it was against the Horde. I'm okay with the Alliance being dark as %^-* and utterly ruthless against the Horde. I've written loving descriptions of Night Elf camps during a hypothetical Barrens warfront where they were decorated with wind chimes made out of orc spines.

But it's not against the Horde. It's against some random desert gerbils the Alliance had never interacted with previously. Desert gerbils, I should point out, that Blizzard had gone out of their way to endear to the Horde by giving them cutsey songs and fun quest lines and apparently one of the gerbils wants to kill all the sneks and is amusing while doing so.

And as others have pointed out, it's in stark contrast to the writing of the Alliance in the rest of the patch, expansion...hell in forever.

All that combines to make it seem...casual. I can't think of a better word at the moment. It comes off as very cynical and emotionally manipulative writing. It wasn't really written to advance the storyline, I'd be very surprised if there was any sort of long-term "dark side of the Alliance" plot at work here, it's purely to piss off Horde players (who have been complaining about motivation to fight the war) and explain why vulpera end up in the Horde.

So yeah. You saying "villain bat" is much shorter.

Until then, you're welcome to join me for a beer in Booty Bay, where I'll be sitting this trash out until the Old Gods invade and the story actually becomes about something other than REEEEEEEEE #ITMATTERS


Cheers, mate. Far as I'm concerned, Blizzard is the enemy.
10/18/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Saiphas
10/18/2018 03:18 PMPosted by Yersynia
...

I didn’t even see it before the edit, so no harm done. Fair call on the ceasefire. I was probably a little more sassy than I needed to be as well.


As an aside, and I hope it keeps coming through in my posts, I absolutely despise this faction war !@#$ for how it turns the Players against each other. It goes beyond friendly banter and competition and gets you to people who only seek Schadenfreude in the misery of others. I absolutely DESPISE that.


Which frustrates me because this is not that hard to do without taking something away from the other faction. It's like Blizzard learned nothing from Southshore and made an ENTIRE EXPANSION of Southshore.

Arathi, Gilneas, Ashenvale, the Western Plaguelands have always been contested. They would be perfect for Warfronts, in fact part of the genius of warfronts is their transitional nature allows you to give BOTH factions something simultaneously. Focus the narratives on people defending their homeland, rather then conquering their enemies and whenever you make new zones like Kul'tiras and Zandalar you can always bake in new bases without removing anything from someone else.

It's kind of a cheap trick to make the illusion of a big conflict, but it only GIVES the factions things, and THAT is what makes faction pride.
...They make up the majority of the Voldunai faction, which is our rep faction in Vol'dun. So they provide us with...all the stuff that, say, Order of Embers or Storm's Wake provides to the Alliance.


Well, Order of Embers gave us Lucy Waycrest, who is the best female character in the expansion and quite possibly the game as well.

Other than that, jack!@#$. That about right?

Dear Alliance players,

...

It's called the Villain Bat(tm). You didn't want it. You don't like it. No one does. It feels bad. It makes you sad and angry in equal measure. It makes you question why your otherwise heroic PC would be OK with these actions, and why he/she is powerless to do anything to stop it. It makes you feel like either a moron or a goosestepping minion when you have to blindly accept quests from the same people BBQing little foxes inside their caravans just so you can progress in the story. It betrays everything you believe about your character and your faction.


For me personally, I would be 100% okay with this if it was against the Horde. I'm okay with the Alliance being dark as %^-* and utterly ruthless against the Horde. I've written loving descriptions of Night Elf camps during a hypothetical Barrens warfront where they were decorated with wind chimes made out of orc spines.

But it's not against the Horde. It's against some random desert gerbils the Alliance had never interacted with previously. Desert gerbils, I should point out, that Blizzard had gone out of their way to endear to the Horde by giving them cutsey songs and fun quest lines and apparently one of the gerbils wants to kill all the sneks and is amusing while doing so.

And as others have pointed out, it's in stark contrast to the writing of the Alliance in the rest of the patch, expansion...hell in forever.

All that combines to make it seem...casual. I can't think of a better word at the moment. It comes off as very cynical and emotionally manipulative writing. It wasn't really written to advance the storyline, I'd be very surprised if there was any sort of long-term "dark side of the Alliance" plot at work here, it's purely to piss off Horde players (who have been complaining about motivation to fight the war) and explain why vulpera end up in the Horde.

So yeah. You saying "villain bat" is much shorter.

Until then, you're welcome to join me for a beer in Booty Bay, where I'll be sitting this trash out until the Old Gods invade and the story actually becomes about something other than REEEEEEEEE #ITMATTERS


Cheers, mate. Far as I'm concerned, Blizzard is the enemy.


Is it in stark contrast or is it more the presentation of the previous occasional Alliance misdeeds were presented poorly with a reasonable doubt out every time?
Looking at the Battle for Lordaeron, we don’t know how Brill got destroyed. Maybe it was intended the Alliance blew it up along with the civilians? Why did the Horde think it was necessary to evacuate the civilians?

I’m not at all saying “the Alliance absolutely committed a horrendous act here” but just showing that there is room for questioning what story Blizz was telling. Particularly when Blizz keeps saying the Alliance isn’t wholly good but we don’t see it in game.

Are the explanations for various Alliance aggressions legitimate to Blizz or not?
10/18/2018 05:35 PMPosted by Ningjinq
Are the explanations for various Alliance aggressions legitimate to Blizz or not?


It's probably because the Alliance's acts of aggression are usually either in retaliation, or are not as egregious as the Horde's. I mean, this would be an easy fix, by simply allowing the Alliance to be egregiously aggressive towards the Horde.

The problem with these Purge Squads is not that the Alliance is doing it, it's why they're doing it. Because a few Vulpera helped a few Zandalari/Horde PC? Like who cares? How have they helped the Horde in any large capacity? They're a bunch of nomad foxes out in the middle of nowhere. There's no reason for the Alliance to go out of their way to do this.

If these were Zandalari it would be fine. If these were Horde soldiers it would be fine. It would be fine if these were Zandalari civilians too, in a narrative sense. Blizzard is just really, really bad at subtlety.

"SO WAIT GUYS *b0ng rip in the background* WHAT IF THE ALLIANCE ARE LIKE NATSEES. NATSEES ARE EVIL, LET'S JUST DRAW PARALLELS BETWEEN THE OBVIOUSLY ROMANI FENNEC FOX PEOPLE AND 'PURGE SQUADS' *long exhale and hacking coughs*"

except the natsocs had reasons for what they did. they weren't evil for the sake of being evil. they were evil because they believed so strongly that what they were doing was good. blizzard doesn't seem to understand this.
So, they're making the Alliance look bad, completely out of context, so that the Horde can say they do bad things too? I guess it is also going to be the reason the Vulpera favor Horde?

That seems like such lazy writing. It's one thing for the Alliance to resort to total war against the Forsaken, but to do that to some random foxes in the desert is way out of character.
I'm going to put it out there that, for scope and magnitude of villainy, nothing tops burning Teldrassil. But for sheer petty malevolence, purging the Vulpera takes the cake.

Congrats, Alliance? By at least one measure of evil, you may have actually exceeded the Horde.

#factionpride!
For me personally, I would be 100% okay with this if it was against the Horde. I'm okay with the Alliance being dark as %^-* and utterly ruthless against the Horde.

But it can't be against the Horde because anything done against the Horde is automatically not the villain bat.
10/18/2018 06:21 PMPosted by Carmageddon
Congrats, Alliance? By at least one measure of evil, you may have actually exceeded the Horde.


At least give me a !@#$%^- quest about it and let me have the fun of doing it.
I can't even say this is evil. This is just pandering to the Horde's variant of invasions. It makes -no- sense why the Alliance would target the Vulpera. Not even Horde-aligned soldiers.

Why are draenei cooking them?
Why are draenei happily murdering fox people with warlocks?
Why the hell are we attacking the vulpera?

Just.. nothing makes sense. BFA's story is trash and the in-game presentation shows this.

10/18/2018 05:35 PMPosted by Ningjinq
Looking at the Battle for Lordaeron, we don’t know how Brill got destroyed. Maybe it was intended the Alliance blew it up along with the civilians? Why did the Horde think it was necessary to evacuate the civilians?


That's cute.. but the civilians of Brill got evacuated. You see some of their npcs on the Orgrimmar wall. The Alliance gave them time to evacuate, as seen wtih the Vendors, npcs and what not scattered about. Not a single body seen in Brill beyond the burning zepplins and ruins.
10/18/2018 08:20 PMPosted by Aelliciah

Why are draenei cooking them?
Why are draenei happily murdering fox people with warlocks?
Why the hell are we attacking the vulpera?


No Witnesses.
10/18/2018 08:22 PMPosted by Darethy
10/18/2018 08:20 PMPosted by Aelliciah

Why are draenei cooking them?
Why are draenei happily murdering fox people with warlocks?
Why the hell are we attacking the vulpera?


No Witnesses.


Snark aside, this is what I think gets to me the most, why I am as salty about it as I am, is that they used Draenei for this !@#$...with freaking warlocks with them.
10/18/2018 08:30 PMPosted by Saiphas
10/18/2018 08:22 PMPosted by Darethy
...

No Witnesses.


Snark aside, this is what I think gets to me the most, why I am as salty about it as I am, is that they used Draenei for this !@#$...with freaking warlocks with them.


There are so many better candidates for this I agree. Worgen, SI:7 agents, an overzealous squad of 7th legionnaires sent to 'clean out' an area, hell i could even see some particulary unethical gnome warlocks.

Literally anybody but a Dreanei shaman.

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