I Found This Engraving...

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https://i.imgur.com/n7HGp6u.jpg

I returned to the capital when I noticed this. When I moused over it I noticed it could be read. It seems...strangely relevant right about now. I never knew it was there.
And no one learned anything.
It's a good thing they wrote it down and hung it up in that closet. I remember the conversation between Varian and Thrall after the Siege of Orgrimmar going something like "We learned a valuable lesson this day. And I already forgot what it was.."
Boy oh boy, did that age poorly.
wait is this new?

so that means that not garrosh 2.0 or what?

and what do they mean with "shadows and vengeance"? i haven't see any vengeance at all. was garrosh having a vendetta on the alliance?

because so far it does seem like they didn't learn anything at all.
10/22/2018 12:35 AMPosted by Etheldald
wait is this new?

so that means that not garrosh 2.0 or what?

and what do they mean with "shadows and vengeance"? i haven't see any vengeance at all. was garrosh having a vendetta on the alliance?

because so far it does seem like they didn't learn anything at all.
https://www.wowhead.com/object=237942/engraved-stone-plaque
Naw, it was added in 6.0, so right after SoO and at the start of WoD.

Probably not meant to be foreshadowing, just flavoring after a significant event.
10/22/2018 12:35 AMPosted by Etheldald
and what do they mean with "shadows and vengeance"? i haven't see any vengeance at all. was garrosh having a vendetta on the alliance?


Apparently he had a vendetta due to the Alliance attacking Ogrimmar.

It was Krenna’s words that truly nagged him.

They nagged him when the night elves ambushed lumber caravans from Ashenvale.

They nagged him when soldiers from Tiragarde Keep robbed Razor Hill.

They nagged him when the dwarves of Bael Modan and the humans of Northwatch Hold refused to leave the Horde territory that they had usurped.
10/22/2018 12:04 AMPosted by Shadestalkër
It's a good thing they wrote it down and hung it up in that closet. I remember the conversation between Varian and Thrall after the Siege of Orgrimmar going something like "We learned a valuable lesson this day. And I already forgot what it was.."
I remember that cutscene. Good times. Fond memories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLzbESDA1oU
10/21/2018 11:54 PMPosted by Kharinak
And no one learned anything.
I dunno. Apart from one orc dude, the Horde is still pretty together.

The plaque isn't warning the Horde to not be evil, it's warning the Horde not to turn against itself. Which it mostly hasn't.
10/22/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Vespero
10/21/2018 11:54 PMPosted by Kharinak
And no one learned anything.
I dunno. Apart from one orc dude, the Horde is still pretty together.

The plaque isn't warning the Horde to not be evil, it's warning the Horde not to turn against itself. Which it mostly hasn't.


Yeah let's just forget about all those Horde soldiers that Sylvanas blighted and that Baine is inevitably going to turn against Sylvanas. Oh and that the player character actually joins that "one orc dude" in turning against her.
10/22/2018 05:57 AMPosted by Ayaani
10/22/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Vespero
...I dunno. Apart from one orc dude, the Horde is still pretty together.

The plaque isn't warning the Horde to not be evil, it's warning the Horde not to turn against itself. Which it mostly hasn't.


Yeah let's just forget about all those Horde soldiers that Sylvanas blighted and that Baine is inevitably going to turn against Sylvanas. Oh and that the player character actually joins that "one orc dude" in turning against her.


You mean all the Horde troops that, when you rescue say that they were stupid for breaking from the Hordes line in the middle of a firefight?

Those ones?
It's a warning about letting honor-obsessed idiot Orcs have too much power, because they'll use it to crush everyone who doesn't fit into their worldview.
10/22/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Gavik
It's a warning about letting honor-obsessed idiot Orcs have too much power, because they'll use it to crush everyone who doesn't fit into their worldview.


Unlike a certain dead elf right?
That plaque is so underwhelming
10/22/2018 07:00 AMPosted by Zaluzan
10/22/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Gavik
It's a warning about letting honor-obsessed idiot Orcs have too much power, because they'll use it to crush everyone who doesn't fit into their worldview.


Unlike a certain dead elf right?


More like Saurfang.

I wonder who will be the first to be purged when he takes over. Are Warlocks "honorable" enough for him? What about Rogues? How many of us won't meet his standards?

Seriously, you're all afraid of Sylvanas being too much like Garrosh and your solution to this problem is... to put a puritanical Orc in charge.
10/22/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Gavik
10/22/2018 07:00 AMPosted by Zaluzan
...

Unlike a certain dead elf right?


More like Saurfang.

I wonder who will be the first to be purged when he takes over. Are Warlocks "honorable" enough for him? What about Rogues? How many of us won't meet his standards?

Seriously, you're all afraid of Sylvanas being too much like Garrosh and your solution to this problem is... to put a puritanical Orc in charge.


Better a puritanical Orc than an Undead Horror with a penchant for gassing her own troops. Or a madcap so obsessed with money he'll let the world burn and die rather than do something that cuts into his profits.

Garrosh was bad, but he at least did all he could for the Horde. This Banshee is doing everything for herself, and damn anyone and anything else. Including the planet she's living on.

Didn't like her before - don't like her now.
10/22/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Kregor
Garrosh was bad, but he at least did all he could for the Horde.


For the Orcs*
10/22/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Kregor

Better a puritanical Orc than an Undead Horror with a penchant for gassing her own troops. Or a madcap so obsessed with money he'll let the world burn and die rather than do something that cuts into his profits.

Garrosh was bad, but he at least did all he could for the Horde. This Banshee is doing everything for herself, and damn anyone and anything else. Including the planet she's living on.

Didn't like her before - don't like her now.


'Did all he could for the Horde'

Do you remember what Garrosh actually was? he was an orc supremacist bent on wiping out every other species on Azeroth, the story even goes out of it's way to show in a Blank Scroll that Jastor Gallywix is an explicitly better person then him.

So bad was he, that the vast majority of the Orcish population didn't side with him. Why would they? the man was ranting about the evils of Warlocks while standing under the beating heart of a Dark God.

What Windrunner is doing right now is barely a blip compared to Hellscreams sheer delusional psychosis, hence why the Horde playerbase is so split in opinion to begin with.
10/22/2018 08:19 AMPosted by Darethy
10/22/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Kregor

Better a puritanical Orc than an Undead Horror with a penchant for gassing her own troops. Or a madcap so obsessed with money he'll let the world burn and die rather than do something that cuts into his profits.

Garrosh was bad, but he at least did all he could for the Horde. This Banshee is doing everything for herself, and damn anyone and anything else. Including the planet she's living on.

Didn't like her before - don't like her now.


'Did all he could for the Horde'

Do you remember what Garrosh actually was? he was an orc supremacist bent on wiping out every other species on Azeroth, the story even goes out of it's way to show in a Blank Scroll that Jastor Gallywix is an explicitly better person then him.

So bad was he, that the vast majority of the Orcish population didn't side with him. Why would they? the man was ranting about the evils of Warlocks while standing under the beating heart of a Dark God.

What Windrunner is doing right now is barely a blip compared to Hellscreams sheer delusional psychosis, hence why the Horde playerbase is so split in opinion to begin with.


Last I checked, madame Lich Queen was gassing peasants and helpless people, along with the most disgusting experimentation ever seen, long before Garrosh got his freak on.

And when someone did cross the line (like Krom'Gar in Stonetalon), he had none of it. The Heart corrupted him into insanity, and his discrimination came only if you got in the way - cf. The Blackfuse Company.

We want to go into comparing the litany of evil, Garrosh was a flyspeck compared to the boundless evil of Sylvanas and her Apothecaries. So don't you start on how bad he was - he wasn't a nice guy by any means, and he was still nothing compared to Sylvanas in the cruelty department. There's no way around that.

> inb4 the Royal Apothecary Society is no more, Sylvanas isn't evil etc. etc.

Look at the Blight outside Undercity. If you want to disregard that with your eyes clamped firmly shut, I got nothing more to say and just be amazed at the cult of personality that Sylvanas has built up.
10/22/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Kregor


Last I checked, madame Lich Queen was gassing peasants and helpless people, along with the most disgusting experimentation ever seen, long before Garrosh got his freak on.

And when someone did cross the line (like Krom'Gar in Stonetalon), he had none of it. The Heart corrupted him into insanity, and his discrimination came only if you got in the way - cf. The Blackfuse Company.

We want to go into comparing the litany of evil, Garrosh was a flyspeck compared to the boundless evil of Sylvanas and her Apothecaries. So don't you start on how bad he was - he wasn't a nice guy by any means, and he was still nothing compared to Sylvanas in the cruelty department. There's no way around that.

> inb4 the Royal Apothecary Society is no more, Sylvanas isn't evil etc. etc.

Look at the Blight outside Undercity. If you want to disregard that with your eyes clamped firmly shut, I got nothing more to say and just be amazed at the cult of personality that Sylvanas has built up.


The Garrosh that dealt with Krom'gar was dead the moment that he started to suspect Vol'jin was a threat, Windrunners experimentation was well exceeded in volume and cruelty by the time he was in full swing. Orgrimmar was crushed under martial law, Horde civilians, not even associates of the Alliance, were blindfolded and forced to the ground to be executed.

Do you even remember the depths of madness that was Underhold? the pathway to his throne room flooded with Sha and orcs twisted by the power of the Old Gods? the psychotic ranting about how Thrall dared to let Warlocks into the city while he stood beneath the pumping heart of madness itself without so much as a hint of cognitive dissonance?

The blight outside of Undercity doesn't phase me. The Horde troops you rescue even state themselves that their bloodlust got the better of them and they strayed to the front of the line. It was a calculated move to wipe out an enemy force and deny them a base. If you want to argue morality, argue Darnassus.

Oh also?

https://twitter.com/davekosak/status/348911449655083010

Garrosh's madness was his own.

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