Play Nice, Play Fair panel at Blizzcon

General Discussion
11/03/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Vixie
11/03/2018 05:08 PMPosted by Ironcross
Oh good. It’s hard to find a safe space in Azeroth. I sometimes fear for my life. Someone might punch me through my monitor or something. Literally shaking at the thought of it.


/eyeroll

I didn't really listen to that panel cuz it doesn't affect me. I never felt unsafe playing WoW, even when I had persistent stalkers and mean bastidges after BGs and stuff whispering me in-game or following me around on the forums. Just /Ignore.

If you're that sensitive to random strangers saying crap to you, you really shouldn't be on the internet or gaming or leave your house.


Wooooosshhh!
11/03/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Profmarvell
I hope they implement the harsher but fair systems used in overwatch in wow. Too many "disruptive players" using hate speech against the lgbtqia community in game.

Don't they have ignore functions in these games?
11/03/2018 05:35 PMPosted by Reesespieces
Remember when the internet and online games were like the wild west and you just dealt with toxicity and rudeness?

I miss that.


amen brother. think freedom in MMOs and RPGS is important.

These people are robots.
11/03/2018 05:35 PMPosted by Reesespieces
Remember when the internet and online games were like the wild west and you just dealt with toxicity and rudeness?

I miss that.


amen brother. I hated all the toxic garbage before blizz implemented all the muting/support stuff in the interface... but i think freedom in MMOs and RPGS is important.

These people are robots.


I believe the correct PC term is "NPC"
11/03/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Drusillia
What I am concerned about is that mostly likely this will lead to them building psychological profiles on each player. So the next question is that once they have this information, who will they sell it to?


Already happening and has been happening, I remember the detailed information Turbine had on many of their customers, and that was years ago.

Can only imagine what a company like Blizzard has.
11/03/2018 05:35 PMPosted by Reesespieces
Remember when the internet and online games were like the wild west and you just dealt with toxicity and rudeness?

I miss that.


Hey, I'm all for at least trying to get people to be better. I don't want to live in a world where we just "suck it up" because no one wants to be responsible for their actions. Don't be jerks. Why is that hard to do?
11/03/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Profmarvell
I hope they implement the harsher but fair systems used in overwatch in wow. Too many "disruptive players" using hate speech against the lgbtqia community in game.


What about the SGWBBQ (straight guys who barbecue) community? As a member, I feel targeted sometimes by people who talk about sodomy in trade chat. I hope they’re looking at that too.
11/03/2018 05:08 PMPosted by Ironcross
Oh good. It’s hard to find a safe space in Azeroth. I sometimes fear for my life. Someone might punch me through my monitor or something. Literally shaking at the thought of it.


I know right, It is so traumatizing running into game character's who think and act differently. Thank god blizzard is building an Azeroth wall to silence them.
I think the next generation of children will be so PC and so easy to break.

If there ever is a world war the adults of the next generation will bow there heads and accept termination out of fear of everything.
11/03/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Drusillia
What I am concerned about is that mostly likely this will lead to them building psychological profiles on each player. So the next question is that once they have this information, who will they sell it to?


Yeah, I totally get it to look for ways to efficiently improve interplayer relations, Blizzard is a business.

But these guys' job is literally to develop the most cost-effective automated systems to seamlessly regulate player speech. Think of what this kind of system could do in greater society? There are governments who would love this technology. That's why I wish there was a Q&A and maybe someone could ask if certain governments request Blizzard to regulate other kinds of speech other than the usual hostility.

They did mention they are part of a larger organization looking at ways to address certain behaviours in online gaming.
I'm a free speech absolutist. I do not believe in 'hate speech', 'toxicity', or 'disruptive players'. These are all terms aimed at constricting thought in the name of dog whistling to Progressive politics. Or worse, to implementing Orwellian background processes to gain user data that can be traded to parent companies or partner companies to do God-Only-Knows-What with.

If people are offended, then they already possess the capacity to /ignore or /report a player. To the point that the player being reported risks being silenced for a determined period of time. If their behavior is serious enough, they risk losing their account. Why do we need systems to predictively ban people? This violates the principle of 'Corpus Delecti' in that no offense is necessary to recieve punishment. Then someone would be required to go through an appeals process just to be reinstated with the onus on them to prove their case.

If you are going to punish people for acting out, then principles of Due Process should be observed. This doesn't fit that description. This looks more like control systems for the sake of control systems with the end result being game play and interaction that is so constrictive that it kills the player base.

And for what? To appease a few people with more forum posts or twitter comments than hours of game time logged? I look at some of the people in this very thread and wonder how they have time to play at all or if they spend all their time on these boards padding their post count. These aren't the people I would go to for advice on how to improve my game.
11/05/2018 01:31 AMPosted by Dartt
If people are offended, then they already possess the capacity to /ignore or /report a player.


For sure. That's pretty much all we need.

I should reiterate; people shouldn't be vile to each other in the game, but I am glad systems exist to give people recourse against nastiness and bullying.
11/03/2018 05:08 PMPosted by Ironcross
Oh good. It’s hard to find a safe space in Azeroth. I sometimes fear for my life. Someone might punch me through my monitor or something. Literally shaking at the thought of it.

This is how I feel, look I know Im not the nicest person, but seriously I talk to friend with more swear words than on here. People have become such delicate snowflakes.

And if you say Anything slightly disagreeable they lash out and that's Not using the language I use in my own country.. Grow up ppl, harden up ffs, cause life, isn't going to make it easy. Even if Blizz seems to want to.
There are some awful players out ther, asmongold and McConnell, so it's nice to see them take it seriously
However those two are still with us, and the blue yak says he isn't in customer service, and with the history of some CMs like celestalon, bashiok, and zerharm, they to look at themselves as much as the bad apples
11/05/2018 01:31 AMPosted by Dartt
I'm a free speech absolutist. I do not believe in 'hate speech', 'toxicity', or 'disruptive players'. These are all terms aimed at constricting thought in the name of dog whistling to Progressive politics. Or worse, to implementing Orwellian background processes to gain user data that can be traded to parent companies or partner companies to do God-Only-Knows-What with.


When I was a kid, I might have agreed with you. Nowadays I am against the whole free speech absolutism. You are free to say what you want, but you should never be free from the consequences of it. And more importantly, you are not free to spout your nonsense in someone else home, or in this case someone else's forum.

What about the SGWBBQ (straight guys who barbecue) community? As a member, I feel targeted sometimes by people who talk about sodomy in trade chat. I hope they’re looking at that too.


I'm curious what your view of "sodomy" is? If its someone talking about two people having sex(either same sex or straight sex) especially in graphic detail, then yeah it does not belong on the public forums/public chat. If its someone talking about the fact the have a same-sex boyfriend/girlfriend and they are going to go watch a movie or whatever, then it should be allowed considering something like that would be allowed for straight couples.

Basically someone who is non-!@#$%^ should be allowed to say the same thing a -*!@#$ person could say in chat. Especially about their relationship. No more, no less.
11/03/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Snowfox
Some players can control their own behavior. Some cannot.

There will always be systems put in place to handle those who cannot.

Ultimately it's better if players control their own behavior, but can't count on that.


This says it all.

And this:
11/05/2018 01:31 AMPosted by Dartt
I'm a free speech absolutist. I do not believe in 'hate speech', 'toxicity', or 'disruptive players'. These are all terms aimed at constricting thought in the name of dog whistling to Progressive politics. Or worse, to implementing Orwellian background processes to gain user data that can be traded to parent companies or partner companies to do God-Only-Knows-What with.

If people are offended, then they already possess the capacity to /ignore or /report a player. To the point that the player being reported risks being silenced for a determined period of time. If their behavior is serious enough, they risk losing their account. Why do we need systems to predictively ban people? This violates the principle of 'Corpus Delecti' in that no offense is necessary to recieve punishment. Then someone would be required to go through an appeals process just to be reinstated with the onus on them to prove their case.

If you are going to punish people for acting out, then principles of Due Process should be observed. This doesn't fit that description. This looks more like control systems for the sake of control systems with the end result being game play and interaction that is so constrictive that it kills the player base.

And for what? To appease a few people with more forum posts or twitter comments than hours of game time logged? I look at some of the people in this very thread and wonder how they have time to play at all or if they spend all their time on these boards padding their post count. These aren't the people I would go to for advice on how to improve my game.


Is what Naivete looks like.
Big brother is watching you.
11/03/2018 05:08 PMPosted by Ironcross
Literally shaking


Needs more emphasis

Literally shaking
Like that!
pretty clear what most blizzard employees are.

as if people don't have any agency and are precious little snowflakes, someone talk in ways you don't like, ignore the person. but no, that's not the way to deal with people who said something you don't like, you gotta punish them.

and to those who talk about free speech and shouldering the consequences. the only consequence of free speech should be people being free to ignore you and not engage in conversations with you, not to silence you.

whatever the sugar coat people try to paint on such initiatives, it is fundamentally looking down on other people and thinking you are so much above others that you can control what they should do.

what happened to the saying 'stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me'?

the same philosophy is rampant in the devs as well. we the devs know what the players want, and our belief is more accurate than the actual player's feedback.
/Ignore and reporting systems are way more than enough. Setting the whisper chat to its own window tab is another good step, someone is chaining through alts to spam you? Don't look in the tab, and finish filling out the report, easy.

If someone is really getting to you, walk away, take a breath and put things in perspective.

If your core identity is so destabilized, so traumatized, so damaged by what a random person on the internet thinks, you have far bigger problems than what they are saying.

Trolls and bullies have only as much power as you give them, stop feeding them.

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