"Kul Tirans Lorewise can't be Paladins"

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11/05/2018 02:44 PMPosted by Xerash
2 Archmagi


Lol. Did you do any WQs? I fight Kul Tiran tidesages every day. And you know how I know they are MAGES? 1) they wear cloth 2) they cast frost novas. 3) they dont have totems
11/05/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Killek
I want to Play a Fat Paladin.


The light is very clear on this,

No fatties.
The playerbase is as out of touch with warcraft lore as the devs are out of touch with the game
Kul Tirans Paladins and mages should be added, as should monks for Lightforged, add warlock for Zandalari.
I giggle at the idea of using "Haymaker" on a holy paladin. :>
11/05/2018 03:12 PMPosted by Ollin
11/05/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Nearo
We're being unjustly denied KT Paladins for gameplay reasons. It has nothing to do with lore. Anyone familiar with the lore of Kul Tiras going back to the Second War would be well aware of this.

Kul Tirans should also be allowed to be mages for many obvious reasons covered in other threads.


And there is one really good reason, not to: Faction balance.

I QQ a LOT about faction balance, and the last thing I'm going to do is sit here and not challenge someone who wants to sacrifice it.

If they "need" paladins and mages, what should they then lose access to? Both factions, after getting their last two allied races, will have access to 80 class/race combinations. You can't remove access to anything that already exists since that would wipe out existing characters in some way.

So what could KT humans lose that would make sense? They don't have access to much as-is.

...I also don't find the general justifications for KT mages very well thought out. "Jaina is a mage!"

Jaina is a Proudmoor. A daughter of a noble house from the eastern kingdoms. She's basically a member of the Lordaeron nobility and is directly descended from the Arathi kings (just like Genn's family, the rulers of Stromgarde Keep, the Wrynns, other various surviving Lordaeron nobles, and Anduin Lothar, who was a direct descendant of the original Arathi emperor before his death).

KT humans can't be mages because there isn't room, and Jaina isn't justification because she's not a KT human. She's an EK human who happened to be born in Kul'tiras just like the majority of the KT human populations in Stormsong Valley and Tiragarde Sound (Hint, if you're not a "fat human", you're not a KT human).


I get the faction balance argument. I'm all for balance but it should be done in a way that respects the existing lore.

Instead of taking away classes that make sense, they could look for ways to add more classes to the other side in order to make up the difference. I gave the example above of how they might potentially add a form of druidism to Mag'har orcs that utilizes spirit beast forms. There's the whole Everbloom style druidism on Draenor that none of the playable races have access to, this is a missed opportunity to give the Horde an Orcish druid option.

Warlocks for the Zandalari would also make sense.

Or Undead Paladins (not my favorite), there's already NPC undead paladins in the old forsaken zones, the scarlet monastery and naxxramas, so it wouldn't be lore-breaking.

As far as mages, there's a ton of Kul Tiran mages both in Tol Dagor (including a fire mage boss), as a WQ objective, and for Ashvane forces all around the expac.

There's ways of getting that balance in a way that looks at the lore of the game and utilizes the ways that make sense without arbitrarily taking something away from either side.
11/05/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Ryzos
And makes it even less sense when you see that aside from Night Elves and Humans most other alliance races are barely played. Which is not the same case with horde.


Right? Because Horde are almost all Blood Elves now anyway.
They're humans. Of course they can be paladins.

It's like saying junker gnomes can't take engineering as a profession.
11/05/2018 02:34 PMPosted by Nearo
11/05/2018 02:28 PMPosted by Drekjin
...

Uhmmm not to burst any bubbles here but I remember this encounter and even on the page you linked it says "Alliance Paladins" btu clearly states there are "Kul Tiran Navy" & "Theramore Guards". NO WHERE DOES IT SAY "Kul Tiran Paladin" as a unit in the encounter lol Get yo facts straight before complaining.


"Kul Tiras Navy" was the faction - with the units distinguishable by the color of their armor.

Since you need more help, here you go:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kul_Tiras_Navy

Edit: One more - https://wow.gamepedia.com/Chief_Petty_Officer

Screenshot for you, sir - note the paladin-looking fellow with the hammer and dressed in Green just like all the other Kul Tiran Navy units.

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/thumb/1/1d/A_Blaze_of_Glory_-_Throne_room.jpg/800px-A_Blaze_of_Glory_-_Throne_room.jpg

How about you get your facts straight before trolling?


Honestly we just have to wait until Reforged because it really just seems they were reusing assets cause they REALLY weren't going to make a custom No Name hero for that campaign. Even Daelin who got a unique Model still used Paladin spells.

Was the Petty Officer actually a Paladin? Maybe. Does it mean that paladins are emblematic or archetypical of Kul'tiran culture? Not really.

It's like High Elf paladins: They exist, sure, but if HE were to be playable, you could totally see them not getting them by similar measure.
sorry guys just because it done in books, previous game or what ever comes to mind. does not mean it has to become here. I know lore and all that jazz. But I would never play a rehashed game. that basically what you asking for. change the game to a game no one plays now. Would not seem to work. I know classic we see how well that works out. did not work with the few PlayStation games I played.
11/05/2018 08:49 AMPosted by Amarlly
As far as I'm concerned any race that can be a Priest should have Paladin as an option as well unless the intention is for the Priests to be exclusively Shadow in the lore.


yes, i too agree.... gnome pallies are a must :P
11/05/2018 08:52 AMPosted by Trokaire
Balance is maintained between both sides.

As all things should be.
11/05/2018 02:54 PMPosted by Ollin
The Kul'tiran human allied race are a human sub-race that originates from Drustvar, and are descended from humans who cross-bred with the original native Drust population before they were wiped out (you learn this while questing in Drustvar). Judging from the last boss of Waycrest Manor, the Drust were probably some kind of Vrykul subrace, and at the very least were physically larger and stronger than "normal" Arathi humans (which further suggests some kind of Vrykul subrace, since the Arathi humans are descended from Vrykul, which might make the two races capable of bearing half-breed children in the first place.)
It was confirmed in an interview with Afrasiabi that the Drust were seafaring Vrykul. Vrykul have never had a problem with using the Light, and two of the paladin artifacts were even theirs.

Regarding mages, reminder that Baradin Hold was built and established as a prison by Tirassian mages.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350863774787567618/509255755413585920/unknown.png
I think we've proved beyond any doubt Kul Tirans have mages beyond Dalaran Archmages from Warcraft 3 to BFA.

@As for Warcraft reforged I really doubt any new new lore will come out considering they will essentially be the same game bar graphics.
11/05/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Leowulf
The justification for Race-Class availability is not the realm of possibilty, this is a video game, anything is possible.

But it is not however practical, to give Paladins to a Race that is rooted in worship of the Sea.

That would make the Kul Tiran more akin to an overweight Paladin from Lordaeron, and obliterate Race identity.


Blizzard already obliterated the identity of kul tirans with this expansion and "worship of the sea". Kul Tirans of Proudmoore are sea-faring humans, sea dogs, and marines. There's no reason they can't also have an order of paladins. The tidesages are a fringe group of nutties.
11/05/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Divium
11/05/2018 11:46 AMPosted by Drede
Game mechanics.

Garithos was a Paladin/Mountain King because they didn't have a Hero that fit him.


What does that have to do with OP? Can you state your argument instead of just saying game mechanics, are you for or against this and why in a full sentence.


Just because they were labeled as paladins for the sake of the game does not mean according to lore those characters are paladins. Maybe they were just skilled warriors, but since there wasnt really an alliance hero that fit that they ended up paladins. Maybe that archmages was a tidesage, but since that concept hadn't been thought of yet they just used mage skills.

I honestly don't care either way what happens to them, but don't go dismissing people's arguments just because you want to force your narrative and opinion.
I didnt dismiss him when I asked him to explain it was because I really didnt understand his argument at the time of the post.

The post did make people upsetti so I guess ai could have worded it better.
11/06/2018 05:11 AMPosted by Oimate
11/05/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Leowulf
The justification for Race-Class availability is not the realm of possibilty, this is a video game, anything is possible.

But it is not however practical, to give Paladins to a Race that is rooted in worship of the Sea.

That would make the Kul Tiran more akin to an overweight Paladin from Lordaeron, and obliterate Race identity.


Blizzard already obliterated the identity of kul tirans with this expansion and "worship of the sea". Kul Tirans of Proudmoore are sea-faring humans, sea dogs, and marines. There's no reason they can't also have an order of paladins. The tidesages are a fringe group of nutties.


I mean is it that hard to understand that kul'tirans got a bit recontextualized on BfA about being all about sea worship?

I think at this point I'm just getting a bit vexxed at people being so ride or die about paladins. Yes, they would be nice I like their mechanics, but to want every race and their mom to be paladins specially when the Lore kinda isn't there tbh is like you only care about paladins.
Kul'tirans being paladins makes MUCH more sense than friggin trolls being paladins!
11/05/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Lemres
In that map you fight A paladin that is working for Daelin. That's all we know - he might be one of those Theramore citizens rallied by him.

And I don't see a single paladin in Kul Tiras during the expansion storyline, or at least some kind of warrior that uses Light spells. Do you?


Dont try to reason with him. It's Ryzos. He's too far gone as is.

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