A request to the Story Forum

Story Forum
Can we actually start discussing lore instead of having faction partisan bickering over who's the favorite or why Blizzard is literally Satan.

Let's discuss the Troll Wars.
Blizzard wants us to bicker with eachother though.

That's why they have been lying to the 2 factions more and more recently.
Who's eviler, Sylvanas or Satan?
Why would we discuss the Troll Wars?

Actual history, and fictional history that has a lot of thought behind it, is huge. Hundreds or thousands of years of stories, from the large stories of kings and nations down to the tiny stories of peasants and soldiers. A single war could fill a hundred books and inspire countless hours of discussion.

The Troll Wars is a few paragraphs. That's it. That's not just what we know about the period, that's literally it. Blizzard may choose to add more later, but for now, it's a few paragraphs.

There is nothing interesting to say about the troll wars.

The only lore that's actually worth conversing about is the lore that is unfolding before us in real time. That's the only lore with any real uncertainty, any real mystery, any real depth.

So no, we're not going to stop discussing the part of the lore that's actually interesting to discuss an event that two people each put two hours thought into.
11/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Demontê
Can we actually start discussing lore instead of having faction partisan bickering over who's the favorite or why Blizzard is literally Satan.

Let's discuss the Troll Wars.


It's funny, due to the troll wars and Anasterian Sunstrider negotiations is how the humans learn arcane magic, thus the first human mages of the history.
I for one would love to have lore discussions.

And I loathe the partisanship bickering with a passion.

So I am right there with you on that page.
11/08/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
Who's eviler, Sylvanas or Satan?


I'm going to have go with Satan. Dude's just a petty man child trying to break daddy's toys because he's no longer the favourite.
I love it, there's so many Forsaken and Sylvanas topics, I feel like a kid in a candy store. I'm completely overwhelmed.

Honestly I don't think they've ever received this much buzz.
The Amani did literally nothing wrong.
11/08/2018 06:08 PMPosted by Solythn
Why would we discuss the Troll Wars?

Actual history, and fictional history that has a lot of thought behind it, is huge. Hundreds or thousands of years of stories, from the large stories of kings and nations down to the tiny stories of peasants and soldiers. A single war could fill a hundred books and inspire countless hours of discussion.

The Troll Wars is a few paragraphs. That's it. That's not just what we know about the period, that's literally it. Blizzard may choose to add more later, but for now, it's a few paragraphs.

There is nothing interesting to say about the troll wars.

The only lore that's actually worth conversing about is the lore that is unfolding before us in real time. That's the only lore with any real uncertainty, any real mystery, any real depth.

So no, we're not going to stop discussing the part of the lore that's actually interesting to discuss an event that two people each put two hours thought into.


I can see the confusion, but I meant the literal war of trolls on the story forum
11/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Demontê
Can we actually start discussing lore instead of having faction partisan bickering over who's the favorite or why Blizzard is literally Satan.

Let's discuss the Troll Wars.


Because so many people are in love with their head-canon and want to rage any time Blizzard differentiates from it

And most of the die-hard faction loyalists don't actually play characters of the opposite faction so they have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to lore because they're missing half the story
The Troll Wars? Well, alright.

The Amani did nothing wrong. Really, it's just Alliance favoritism that the High Elves and HUMAN POTENTIAL were allowed to win by firestorm Deus Ex Machina. Blizzard's framing of the events as morally just for the Alliance side of the fight is pretty horrific when you consider the extreme pro colonialist connotations it represents, which proves that Blizzard feels the mass extermination of native peoples by colonial powers across history were completely morally justified.

Where is the "morally grey" they keep talking about? All I see is Blizzard framing LITERAL GENOCIDE against an indigenous peoples as somehow something that should be applauded! I, for one, find it deeply disturbing.

... Am I doing it right?
11/08/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Multke
Because so many people are in love with their head-canon and want to rage any time Blizzard differentiates from itAnd most of the die-hard faction loyalists don't actually play characters of the opposite faction so they have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to lore because they're missing half the story


I did level a Horde toon to see their story but, ugh, the prospect of having to do that stupid Honorbound rep a second time is just really putting me off doing it.
11/08/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Galenar
11/08/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Multke
Because so many people are in love with their head-canon and want to rage any time Blizzard differentiates from itAnd most of the die-hard faction loyalists don't actually play characters of the opposite faction so they have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to lore because they're missing half the story


I did level a Horde toon to see their story but, ugh, the prospect of having to do that stupid Honorbound rep a second time is just really putting me off doing it.


They did say in 8.1 the war campaign quests themselves will give bunches of rep so waiting till then works.
11/08/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Multke
And most of the die-hard faction loyalists don't actually play characters of the opposite faction so they have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to lore because they're missing half the story
Decided to actually start making Alliance toons to level this expansion. Even made a new Draenei hunter and level boosted her to witness the War of Thorn event on both factions. In hindsight, it does make it so I'll have to make a new Draenei toon for the Heritage gear, whenever that comes out.
11/08/2018 06:19 PMPosted by Galenar
I did level a Horde toon to see their story but, ugh, the prospect of having to do that stupid Honorbound rep a second time is just really putting me off doing it.

If it's just an alt, you don't really need Honorbound rep for anything.
11/08/2018 06:18 PMPosted by Kisin
Blizzard's framing of the events as morally just for the Alliance side of the fight is pretty horrific when you consider the extreme pro colonialist connotations it represents


I know this is largely a joke post. But for real, whenever Humans go anywhere in Azeroth, the natives are always evil and force the Humans to wipe them out.

And I find it hilarious. Terrible, but hilarious.
11/08/2018 06:18 PMPosted by Kisin
Blizzard's framing of the events as morally just for the Alliance side of the fight is pretty horrific when you consider the extreme pro colonialist connotations it represents, which proves that Blizzard feels the mass extermination of native peoples by colonial powers across history were completely morally justified.

Where is the "morally grey" they keep talking about? All I see is Blizzard framing LITERAL GENOCIDE against an indigenous peoples as somehow something that should be applauded! I, for one, find it deeply disturbing.


I mean, it's not like the trolls (non-Zandalari/non-Darkspear) are friendly. Unlike the other native races where it's mostly land wars, Trolls are borderline Wild God cultists.

It isn't just the humans or dwarves that kill trolls, but the blood elves, and even other trolls.

I get being critical on the portrayals of tribes, but for better or worse, Tauren and Orcs are treated differently.
11/08/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Demontê
Can we actually start discussing lore instead of having faction partisan bickering over who's the favorite or why Blizzard is literally Satan.

Let's discuss the Troll Wars.


You can't actually discuss the lore. Discussing lore means working from a set of known facts and it's been clear for years, and made explicit in the last few days, that there are no facts in Blizzard lore. Because Blizzard sometimes writes things from two different POVs (which is not in and of itself bad) that cannot be logically reconciled (which is bad) there will never be a 'real' lore. There are dozens of places in WoW lore that can't be anything but headcanon.

Even worse, Blizzard remakes 'facts' midstream. Things you knew, because you literally witnessed them on the screen, didn't happen. All lore discussion is just... gone. It's always been the case that WoW lore is headcanon, it's just that it's Blizzard's headcanon and, more importantly, dozens of different people within Blizzard. All you can do is try to figure out their headcanon.
11/08/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
Who's eviler, Sylvanas or Satan?
Well Satan hasn't killed anywhere near as many people, I'm going to go with Sylvanas.

He's actually a pretty interesting chracter. Guy only ever killed at YHWH's behest, constantly plays the counter to YHWH's shinanigans, makes logical points, etcetera. Not sure the mythos actually supports YHWH being "omnipotent" to the degree some fictional characters are without fan wank, but Satan has the balls to actually call the guy out.

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