"Dungeon finder killed the social aspect"

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I keep seeing that statement get thrown around from time to time but I'm calling it out.

I remember the days of pre-dungeon finder. Here's how it went:

[Trade] Monrith: "LF tank for Gundrak" x 38
DiabloMeme: "I'll join"
DiabloMeme has joined the group.
Monrith: "someone help summon plz"
DiabloMeme: "okay"

*summons*

*facerolls dungeon*

Random player: "thanks everyone"

Group disbanded.

That was it. It was virtually the same exact thing as dungeon finder with the only difference being you having to spam trade chat for 40 something minutes to form a group and having to argue with people to come summon.

It wasn't a sprawling utopia of high quality conversations where everyone are bestest friends. It was just running with randoms who were as silent back then as they are now.

If you're looking for community a guild is the way to go, same thing for back then in ye olden pre-LFD days.
I'll try.

11/11/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Monrith
[Trade] Monrith: "LF tank for Gundrak" x 38
DiabloMeme: "I'll join"
DiabloMeme has joined the group.
Monrith: "someone help summon plz"
DiabloMeme: "okay"

*summons*


-> Wipes

-> Doesn't get kicked because they just spent 15 minutes looking for a tank

-> They talk about it and figure out what was causing the wipe and the problem.

-> DiabloMeme joins the guild

-> DiabloMeme continues to build a relationship with the players in the group since they're all on the same server.

Both of these were potential outcomes. Your anecdote is just as valuable as mine.
I used to hate it when people add me as friend just because i've been friendly during a run. I'm like i'm friendly but no, i dont want to see you or hear from you again. You're just a one night stand for me. It was good but i want to run with other people.
I'm a wrath baby so when I was playing catch up...
Dungeon Finder was a god send when I was leveling in outlands
The social aspect was dead and buried long before launch due to you being able to solo level. This how I made most of my friends, many I still have, in vaniller EQ.
I fail to see why those who value the social aspect of pre-lfd can't continue to uphold their desires after. Have there perhaps been attempts to adapt to the change since it was made?
11/11/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Vãrick
I'll try.

11/11/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Monrith
[Trade] Monrith: "LF tank for Gundrak" x 38
DiabloMeme: "I'll join"
DiabloMeme has joined the group.
Monrith: "someone help summon plz"
DiabloMeme: "okay"

*summons*


-> Wipes

-> Doesn't get kicked because they just spent 15 minutes looking for a tank

-> They talk about it and figure out what was causing the wipe and the problem.

-> DiabloMeme joins the guild

-> DiabloMeme continues to build a relationship with the players in the group since they're all on the same server.

Both of these were potential outcomes. Your anecdote is just as valuable as mine.


In my many LFD dungeons I've never seen a tank get insta-kicked for a wipe

And when we do wipe there's often people pointing out mechanics.
11/11/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Monrith
In my many LFD dungeons I've never seen a tank get insta-kicked for a wipe

And when we do wipe there's often people pointing out mechanics.


I've seen both. Thing is people are vicious when there's an automated system that'll just automatically replace and summon players to their dungeon. If you're on boss 3 in your dungeon, the likelyhood of them considering a kick is much less since they would have to search for the player and then summon them, or wait for them to arrive.
If you need a social aspect to this game for dungeons and raids join a guild!
I've been around since 2004. Pre-LFG was superior because the majority of people -- oftentimes complete strangers -- actually spoke with each other. The stakes were high, too, because failure meant time was wasted heading back to town in order to find another player.

It was inconvenient, sure, but the investment of time and patience yielded a much more satisfying reward in the end -- everytime.

There are no consequences in the new paradigm. You fail, you kick, nothing is relevant... nobody cares about it. Convenience without stakes. All people care about now is item levels instead of the adventure and trials, and taking the time to get there is part of the journey.

When you're "making whoopie" (thx Chuck Woolery), do you want it to be instantaneous? Nope. You want it to be an adventure.

Part of the problem, too, with the azerite system is that it just makes a sound for some number in the background that you aren't calculating at all -- instantaneously; you don't open your bag to see the reward for your efforts, or see that the number increased with research, it just goes *bleep*. Sure, it's convenient not to have to click on tokens constantly but that fact is part of the reason why most people are abandoning the game -- no sense of reward.
Some what but it wasn't exactly like that in my experience. Likely you'd see these players again around your server, unlike with LFD. Maybe do dungeons again, help with a hard quest, play pvp, go to a PUG raid like Gruul, or something like that.

Plus, you couldn't just kick players whenever you felt like it. It didn't work like that. Now replacements are always seconds away. Everyone is instantly disposable. Many enjoy the convenience, but you can't say it's the same.
No kidding. Sometimes you get a few hellos and you respond back if you wanted. In my case, I often run into many that start up conversations (Which often screws me up tbh) but it isn't bad. Heck, it is quite a distraction for me and I like it. I dunno where this "Social Aspect" being removed because of Dungeon Finder.
Pre-Dungeon Finder I would be in-zone spamming for a run, or in trade. I met people, joined the best guild I was ever a part of, and met some of the coolest people that way. I don't even care if there is a dungeon finder, I just hate cross realm. It cheapens community in the name of faster queue times.
11/11/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Monrith
I keep seeing that statement get thrown around from time to time but I'm calling it out.

I remember the days of pre-dungeon finder. Here's how it went:

[Trade] Monrith: "LF tank for Gundrak" x 38
DiabloMeme: "I'll join"
DiabloMeme has joined the group.
Monrith: "someone help summon plz"
DiabloMeme: "okay"

*summons*

*facerolls dungeon*

Random player: "thanks everyone"

Group disbanded.

That was it. It was virtually the same exact thing as dungeon finder with the only difference being you having to spam trade chat for 40 something minutes to form a group and having to argue with people to come summon.

It wasn't a sprawling utopia of high quality conversations where everyone are bestest friends. It was just running with randoms who were as silent back then as they are now.

If you're looking for community a guild is the way to go, same thing for back then in ye olden pre-LFD days.


I disagree completely. LFG UIs did not kill the social aspect 100%.

Cross realms did.

People operate according to consequence. If you're a prig with no cross realms, people remember you. Because you're within the server only. Then there's an incentive to behave.

With cross realms, there's no consequence, people invite and kick you without a word.

Pugs are consequentially not humans to interact with. LFG tools were never to blame.
11/11/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Kathyna
If you need a social aspect to this game for dungeons and raids join a guild!


This just sends my social anxiety haywire, thinking of just randomly joining a guild for social aspects of WoW. You can't just start speaking to random people and think they care about what you say with social anxiety ruling your brain XD.
Mythic dungeons havent changed the social aspect, and yet the people that complain about dungeon finder dont bother with forming groups for it anyways. Mythic dungeons are the old heroics.. Still very easy. Try some. It's not the same as a mythic raid at all.
classic as a warrior tank:

"yo, tank strat?"

"what's the group like?"

"[name], mage...[name], paladin healer, [name], rogue...and [name], hunter

"nah, [hunter] is a keyboard turner and likes to take everything, no ty"
11/11/2018 10:49 PMPosted by Cirramaru
11/11/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Kathyna
If you need a social aspect to this game for dungeons and raids join a guild!


This just sends my social anxiety haywire, thinking of just randomly joining a guild for social aspects of WoW. You can't just start speaking to random people and think they care about what you say with social anxiety ruling your brain XD.


And that's a good reason why dungeon finder needs to stay. Have the harder dungeons group required and the rest queable.
LFD did not kill the social aspect, being grouped with every other server in your local cluster did. I made the most friends in WoW when it was still just my server. Even if it were just your server and the connected realm that goes with it (In my case, Whisperwind and Dentarg), that's a much more tightly knit community than "I'll never see this fool again so TROLOLOLOL!" like it is today.

The main problem with going back to even a dual-server community via connected realm only is that the population is spread so thinly on some servers that it would be virtually impossible to get groups at non-peak times. Maintaining LFD functionality in a single/dual server community would definitely be essential in terms of wait times for sure. I suspect Classic will end up with LFD functionality at some point as well, though if they do I kind of hope it's done via the oooooooold Call to Arms addon method, which added a bit more granular group finding support than just "fill'er up please!" from LFD.

Community identity is what made WoW so much more engaging than other MMOs. I'd love to see that come back. But sadly I'm at a loss as to how to do it with the current population dispersion since so many would lose their character names in the condensing of servers/communities. Blizzard kind of painted themselves into a corner on this one and there doesn't look like a truly happy way out of the lack of community right now. :(
Jerks killed the social aspect.

Not having a group finder wasn't quite the check people say it was on anti-social behavior in instances.

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