"Dungeon finder killed the social aspect"

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Social aspects for anything require people. If something social is broken, people broke it or are just not participating.

There are a lot of things that get blamed for the downfall of people not being social, but it isn't the game itself. Maybe it stretches from the amount of time people have, to the everyday life of communication thru a small hand held device. How do you think it will be 200 years from now? Will everything be totally impersonal? Will we not even have to see but a few humans in day to day life?

(sorry for drifting there.)
There's got to be a happy medium somewhere. Can't they add a check option to keep searches 100% to the server? That way, you choose between trying to be among those of your community vs I-just-want-to-find-a-group-and-go.

Course, I could say the same thing about sharding...

That, or even though rejection rates are much higher, move to the newer group finder system.
I remember like it was yesterday before dungeon finder. I would create a message and copy it.

"Hello, I'm making a group for x dungeon. So far we have a, b, c, and are wondering if you would like to join us."

I would then do a /who "x class" and then paste it to every one of the players on the list.

I guess that's considered social...
I think one of the big differences is if you made a group, you better have had a warlock and guildies on hand to deal with them if you ended up not wanting them.

It was much harder to replace, so you had to learn to deal with people instead of removing them for whatever reason. Kick was used a lot more carefully than it is now.

Communication was a bigger necessity. Heck, the small "going to summoning stone" you just did is still more than most people do. And we're not even including before then when everyone had to go to the stone.

But it wasn't just LFD. It was a bunch of little things that came together to make it harder and harder to deny the social aspects of the game. You had a server you had a community you had people you had to deal with more than once. People were more difficult to replace, more difficult to find.

It was kindof a thing where all these little things put value in people, enough to treat them replacable only when they were a serious enough issue. Because when you had to replace them, it could often become a huge waste of time.
11/11/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Vãrick
I'll try.

11/11/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Monrith
[Trade] Monrith: "LF tank for Gundrak" x 38
DiabloMeme: "I'll join"
DiabloMeme has joined the group.
Monrith: "someone help summon plz"
DiabloMeme: "okay"

*summons*


-> Wipes

-> Doesn't get kicked because they just spent 15 minutes looking for a tank

-> They talk about it and figure out what was causing the wipe and the problem.

-> DiabloMeme joins the guild

-> DiabloMeme continues to build a relationship with the players in the group since they're all on the same server.

Both of these were potential outcomes. Your anecdote is just as valuable as mine.


More than anything pre-group finder rewarded people for being bad, because putting up with a bad player was better than having to wait another hour to replace them. I remember slogging through many dungeons with an idiot group member, but we put up with it because it was either that or wait forever for a replacement.

Also the whole "if players were bad they never found groups because word of mouth on the server" thing is absolutely false as well. It always boiled down to he-said they-said, and the friends of each party involved would come to their defense, and in the end it was no better or worse than group finder. Bad players and jackholes never had problems finding groups like is asserted.

As far as the social aspect goes, nothing is standing in the way of players assembling and playing with like-minded people, and all it boils down to is the people against LFD want their hands held socially, and wants blizzard to force others to associate with them and play the way they want to play. LFD gives players a choice to play how they want to play, if you want to get on do a quick dungeon and log, LFD provides the ability to do that. If you want to get on, socialize with guild members, assemble a run with people the old fashioned way, LFD is not stopping you from doing that. Maybe if you have a hard time playing that way, and assembling a group that way, then maybe you need to realize you are in a minority, and its not okay to force a majority of people to play how you want.
11/11/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Vãrick
I'll try.

11/11/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Monrith
[Trade] Monrith: "LF tank for Gundrak" x 38
DiabloMeme: "I'll join"
DiabloMeme has joined the group.
Monrith: "someone help summon plz"
DiabloMeme: "okay"

*summons*


-> Wipes

-> Doesn't get kicked because they just spent 15 minutes looking for a tank

-> They talk about it and figure out what was causing the wipe and the problem.

-> DiabloMeme joins the guild

-> DiabloMeme continues to build a relationship with the players in the group since they're all on the same server.

Both of these were potential outcomes. Your anecdote is just as valuable as mine.


#rekt #facts
11/12/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Gorelight


#rekt #facts


#opinions
Dungeon finder may have not been the sole contributor neither was classic full of beautiful social interactions but when you have a queue system, cross realm, and zero consequences/accountability whereby you can simply be a pain in the behind whilst never be seen again or drop a player 'cause you can get another one in a few seconds then it is pretty clear that while some changes were made for convenience... it really bred the societal degeneracy that we can witness today.
I disagree wholeheartedly.

100% random grouping with people you'll never see again utterly destroys a significant social aspect of the game. In BC, I had a full friends list of people I could run dungeons with because we actually interacted in forming the group and clearing the dungeon. And now that M+ is a thing (and communities), that feeling has returned somewhat.
Ok you don't like group finder. Then don't use it. Your free to look for groups in trade or via the dungeon finder tool cross server.

Why does your good time involve taking stuff away from the rest of us?

Mythic Plus is still as vile and un-personalized as group finder is. And Mythic plus is doing everything in the system you like. Does this give you the hint that maybe it's not so much the system but the people.

We can actually help this. Maybe make a few macro's with some greetings or some random jokes on it. This way you can press them quickly and re-insert some of the fun back into dungeon runs.
dungeon finder made things easier but it didnt it kill anything or make anything worse given taht people could still friend each other over battlenet and do !@#$ together if they wanted to other wise you sit in LFG or trade chat forever looking to a get a group that wont kick you out as soon as they see whatever the alternative is for gear score was at the time

LFD/LFR just made getting groups easier for people who dont have the time to sit in chat waiting for a group
11/12/2018 08:44 AMPosted by Tialari
There's got to be a happy medium somewhere. Can't they add a check option to keep searches 100% to the server? That way, you choose between trying to be among those of your community vs I-just-want-to-find-a-group-and-go.


The happy medium would be: Declare an un-official "community" server and congregate there and choose to not use LFX tools. There is literally nothing stopping people who complain about the "community" from doing so. And hasn't been anything stopping them from doing so for the last decade. You see them flock places to do nonsense like "Project 60" or whatever.

Or the pristine server concept, that was promptly shot down by all the "community is gone!!!" people who really were just using this as an excuse for classic servers.

That neither of those gets support, or happens, tells me everything I really need to know. "Community" is nothing more than a dog-whistle to rile people up and trash on current WoW.

In my experience, I was more social before LFX tools. Out of boredom. What else was I going to do while I sat at the stone waiting for that person in town to find that tank/healer finally? While talking is nice and all, I'd rather have better access to actually being able to play.

One of the things that really killed SWtoR for me was how hard finding groups was after using the LFX tools in WoW. I found I had little desire to sit around not doing anything while trying to find groups, so I just didn't.
and tbh the community it self was already killing the community slowly as it was i can remember when i first started raiding in wotlk i think i did nax one or two times at the time cause i was still learning but i had a grasp on the game as a whole

ME: "lfg 10 man icc" (i was geared for that at the time busted my !@#)
ME: -gets group-
Group lead: What fights do you know?
ME: None of them i just started icc
Group lead: -kicks-
Group lead: -whispers me- go learn the fights dont waste peoples time (not a joke or over exaggeration it was pretty much said that way to me)
Me: Why cant you just tell me what to do when i get there?
Group lead: go use youtube stop being lazy

and this was often a theme while raiding and stil was uptill i quit raiding in mists sure sounds stupid but its minor $%^- like that guy was doing that slowly started to burn down the community people where more willing to tell yo uto go screw your self than actually teach anyone anything
people have zero patience in this era.
having em take 3 hours to form a group wouldn't go well i think.
They'll be zoned-out even before you reach a boss.

we'll see in classic though, right?

*mobile phones ruined many social aspects and it's still banging ;)
People killed the social aspect not lfg
As a healer I made a lot of my friends through looking for dungeons. We'd add each other after a decent group so they could find me later. Then we'd end up running a number of dungeons and getting to know each other in the process.
I was a very casual tank, had a friends list full of solid DPS that could work as a team and keep a target CC'd, and a few good natured healers that could get the job done. We would go on impromptu adventures whenever someone needed help with a tough quest that could not be soloed. I remember sitting at my computer with a huge grin on my face numerous times.

Now I have a few characters in a large guild. Sometimes I see a notification that someone in the guild has queued for a dungeon. I post dad jokes and nonsense in /g sometimes. Usually no one responds. I always answer if the odd person actually speaks.
That's how I built a long lasting guild (10 years now). Spam for raid members in Dalaran. They were good at their role, looking for a guild, friendly, mature. I would then send them over to my website that described the guild, made them read our raid/guild rules and code of conduct (yes, very important). They agreed, we invited, we grew.

Friends (in game) to this day.

Worked out great! Loved building the guild that way.

However, I don't miss it. I like LFG because I don't play when the members play most of the time anymore.
11/12/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Junò
Me: Why cant you just tell me what to do when i get there?
Group lead: go use youtube stop being lazy


I'm sorry. But it's completely reasonable to expect someone to have at least looked up a fight before signing up for a raid. Especially back then where we didn't have the brain dead easy tier that was LFR. You were absolutely being lazy and difficult and expecting the people who knew what they were doing to hold your hand.
11/12/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Sibenice
11/12/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Junò
Me: Why cant you just tell me what to do when i get there?
Group lead: go use youtube stop being lazy


I'm sorry. But it's completely reasonable to expect someone to have at least looked up a fight before signing up for a raid. Especially back then where we didn't have the brain dead easy tier that was LFR. You were absolutely being lazy and difficult and expecting the people who knew what they were doing to hold your hand.


and this right here is the type of attitude that is killing the community as a whole

why bother being the community when you can shove it onto something like youtube for you instead its not "lazy" to expect help from the community thats what its suppose to be here for but again people dont want to do that they would rather not deal with you

but hey thanks for proving the point

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