If Sylv Got Mak'gora'd, Would She Mak'gora?

Story Forum
11/12/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Totemfiend
Why don't they just have 3 people challenge Sylvanas to Mak'gora at the same time?
Even if she cheats she'd be too tired by the time she got around to fighting the third person.

1. Because Mak'gora is singular combat and bringing in three people is cheating. There's no point in surviving Mak'gora as a challenger when you yourself cheat. Sylvanas cheating on her own would be a political pyrrhic victory, but if you bring in three people to fight her, it justifies whatever she does to beat you. 2. She's undead. Physical exhaustion is a non-issue.
11/13/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
If she's not allowed to use ANY magic, then she's being unfairly crippled, like a warrior dueling a mage and demanding no spells, only melee. There's no honor in that.
Why is it that every. single. time. the magic argument comes up, it's to defend the possibility of magic use for someone who doesn't need it? It's happened every time since Thrall cheated.

Sylvanas is a ranger. To act like being denied magic is crippling for her is selling her, her family, and one of the most iconic elven factions pitifully short. Rangers are elite warriors on their own, deadly in melee and peerless as archers. Between their physical abilities, rigorous training, and unfathomable years of experience, they might as well be supersoldiers. That's not even factoring in the physical bonuses that being undead brings to the table. If Sylvanas is crippled by not being able to use magic during an honor duel against an old warrior, that would call into question how she even became a Ranger-General to begin with.
11/13/2018 10:48 AMPosted by Conmar
Why is it that every. single. time. the magic argument comes up, it's to defend the possibility of magic use for someone who doesn't need it? It's happened every time since Thrall cheated.

Sylvanas is a ranger. To act like being denied magic is crippling for her is selling her, her family, and one of the most iconic elven factions pitifully short. Rangers are elite warriors on their own, deadly in melee and peerless as archers. Between their physical abilities, rigorous training, and unfathomable years of experience, they might as well be supersoldiers. That's not even factoring in the physical bonuses that being undead brings to the table. If Sylvanas is crippled by not being able to use magic during an honor duel against an old warrior, that would call into question how she even became a Ranger-General to begin with.
So you expect Saurfang to say "I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL TO THE DEATH FOR HONOR! But you can't use your 10 most effective skills to attack or defend yourself while I will be using all of my skills. You can't turn to mist, or supercharge your weapons with your power, or fly, or scream, or, or, or..."
11/13/2018 10:48 AMPosted by Conmar
11/12/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Totemfiend
Why don't they just have 3 people challenge Sylvanas to Mak'gora at the same time?
Even if she cheats she'd be too tired by the time she got around to fighting the third person.

1. Because Mak'gora is singular combat and bringing in three people is cheating. There's no point in surviving Mak'gora as a challenger when you yourself cheat. Sylvanas cheating on her own would be a political pyrrhic victory, but if you bring in three people to fight her, it justifies whatever she does to beat you. 2. She's undead. Physical exhaustion is a non-issue.
11/13/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
If she's not allowed to use ANY magic, then she's being unfairly crippled, like a warrior dueling a mage and demanding no spells, only melee. There's no honor in that.
Why is it that every. single. time. the magic argument comes up, it's to defend the possibility of magic use for someone who doesn't need it? It's happened every time since Thrall cheated.

Sylvanas is a ranger. To act like being denied magic is crippling for her is selling her, her family, and one of the most iconic elven factions pitifully short. Rangers are elite warriors on their own, deadly in melee and peerless as archers. Between their physical abilities, rigorous training, and unfathomable years of experience, they might as well be supersoldiers. That's not even factoring in the physical bonuses that being undead brings to the table. If Sylvanas is crippled by not being able to use magic during an honor duel against an old warrior, that would call into question how she even became a Ranger-General to begin with.


thrall never cheated.
11/13/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
So you expect Saurfang to say "I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL TO THE DEATH FOR HONOR! But you can't use your 10 most effective skills to attack or defend yourself while I will be using all of my skills. You can't turn to mist, or supercharge your weapons with your power, or fly, or scream, or, or, or..."
Then you freely admit that Sylvanas is a god-awful ranger and a disgrace to the Farstriders. Neat. That said, if he actually grew a spine and challenged her, I'd expect either "But you have to fight me like a ranger, not a banshee" or far more aptly: "But no 'rule of cool' BFA-era superhero bull$#!+ powers you didn't have until the Blood War kicked off. Hell, I'll even let you use enchanted arrows if you choose your bow as your one weapon so long as you abide that rule."
11/13/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Zanjin
thrall never cheated.
Before he was a shaman that could topple strongholds just by telepathically asking the elements nicely, Thrall was a peak performance warrior who handed Doomhammer's !@# back to him on a silver platter. Unless Garrosh hit him in the head so hard that he actually forgot he was a bad!@# not all that long ago, calling upon the elements for an instant-kill when the fight wasn't going well for him is underhanded at the very least.
11/13/2018 12:02 PMPosted by Conmar
Before he was a shaman that could topple strongholds just by telepathically asking the elements nicely, Thrall was a peak performance warrior who handed Doomhammer's !@# back to him on a silver platter. Unless Garrosh hit him in the head so hard that he actually forgot he was a bad!@# not all that long ago, calling upon the elements for an instant-kill when the fight wasn't going well for him is underhanded at the very least.


But that wasn't our bada$$ Warchief Thrall... it was Worldshaman Go'el.

Such a disappointment.
11/13/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
So you expect Saurfang to say "I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL TO THE DEATH FOR HONOR! But you can't use your 10 most effective skills to attack or defend yourself while I will be using all of my skills. You can't turn to mist, or supercharge your weapons with your power, or fly, or scream, or, or, or..."
Then you freely admit that Sylvanas is a god-awful ranger and a disgrace to the Farstriders. Neat.
Why challenge someone to a duel of "honor" if you cannot defeat them without demanding massive handicaps? Seems rather honorless to me, but I guess we are talking about Saurfang...
I'm not going to re-litigate the spell casting in mak'gora thing again, except to point out that more than half of the lore examples involve one or two spell casters and no one has ever been accused of cheating. The only suggestion of cheating of which I am aware was when Magatha poisoned Garrosh's blade against Cairne, but he didn't know about it (and was angry when he found out).

As for challenging Sylvanas to mak'gora...Saurfang would lose, obviously. And then the Horde would be stuck with Sylvanas, which is the last thing he wants. I interpret it as him being willing to suck up his honour in service of the bigger picture.

Which is kind of inconsistent with his past characterization, but let's assume that characters are allowed to grow and change.
11/13/2018 12:07 PMPosted by Degas
But that wasn't our bada$$ Warchief Thrall... it was Worldshaman Go'el. Such a disappointment.
I miss him so much. I just want the true Thrall back, but I know he's gone out for a pack of cigarettes and is never coming home.
11/13/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
Why challenge someone to a duel of "honor" if you cannot defeat them without demanding massive handicaps?
You're being intentionally obtuse. Experienced rangers can beat the crap out of warriors without the use of any magic at all, much less one of a Windrunner's stature. Telling someone who is fully capable of (and would likely be) winning fair and square with sheer skill to not use on-the-spot superpowers is hardly a handicap when it's ritualistic combat in a one-on-one duel.
Seems rather honorless to me, but I guess we are talking about Saurfang...
If a broken clock can be right twice a day and cats and dogs can go five minutes without antagonizing each other, then it's no surprise we at least agree on something.
11/12/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Jakkø
I actually have my own theory for how a Mak'gora would go down.

Saurfang challenges Sylvanas to a Mak'gora for control of the Horde, and she accepts. During the duel, she does something nobody was expecting...

She concedes almost immediately.

She vows that she will not make the same mistake that Garrosh made. When the Horde demanded a restoration to their honor, Garrosh resisted. In doing so, he turned the Horde against itself, which not only cost them the war in Pandaria, but also lead to Garrosh's undoing.

Thus, Sylvanas concedes the mantle of Warchief to Saurfang, in the interest of keeping the Horde whole rather than allow it to tear itself apart during a crucial phase in the war. If the Horde truly demands a new Warchief, she will not resist.

In truth, this is simply another plan. Sylvanas knows that Saurfang would have many supporters, and that trying to fight back against him and his camp would result in yet another Horde Civil War - which is the LAST thing she needs on her plate right now. Yes, the demotion is unfortunate, but ultimately, it does little more than delay her plans. Besides, she never really cared for her position as Warchief. The spotlight can be a restricting place. She works better in the shadows...

I actually think this will happen. It kind of fixes most of the story problems and allows our 'choice' to exist without messing the story up.

Saurfang fans will get him as Warchief, which will make them happy

Sylvanas fans will see it for the plot it is and see how it benefits them, which keeps them happy

Also the people who just don't want another Horde civil war, which includes me, get what they want as well. It's honestly a win-win-win situation.
Imagine now if Saurfang sought out Ayir for help to end Sylvnnas? Giving him Valkyr of light to aid him. Ayir is the only one at this point that can event the playing field . Introducing the light Valkyr would cause balance and be a threat to Sylvannas.
No. Because that would mean she'd have to wear slimpy clothes. And making sure women don't wear anything that exposes too much thigh is no. 1 on Blizz's priority list right before "Make Horde players happy" and "Give Sylvanas more plot armor".

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