As a Father I have Had Enough!

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As a tank you need a thick skin. I never have cared what people say in LFD or whatever. But let me put this into perspective ... you are teaching your daughter on learning to tank in a dungeon and basically were wasting 3 other peoples time. When you queue, whether as DPS, TANK, or HEALER there is an unwritten contract that you know how to play your class for the role. I'm sorry, but your daughter did not fulfill her end of the bargain on this. Does that mean she should be insulted, ridiculed, etc.? no, of course not.

However, does that mean you carry some of the blame on this? Yes, you do carry some of the blame for bringing her into a situation that you knew she wasn't able to fulfill adequately. This is why you have friends and create a group out of friends and players that they realize she is new and learning and to expect difficulties. You don't bring it to LFD and expect everyone to be OK with it.
Better to teach her to toughen up and handle online name calling gracefully like the rest of us.

Can't just go running to teacher every time someone's mean, especially today with anonymous social media.

We need fewer snowflakes, not more
All these people that saying LFD isn't the right place to learn tanking are completely wrong. Queable content is casual and the place they should be learning.

Just goes to show how out of touch the player base has come with the content! Seems like all these players want to do the dungeon "their" way and have complete disregard for anyones else reason for being there! The community should be ashamed of how it treats new or learning players!
Okay, so idk if you know, but dungeons were indirectly buffed by scaling, which means no more enchanted-BOA laden DPS tanking and downing everything 10 seconds or less.......I think all the impatient ppl who play this game would have been a lot more understanding before the buff since they could cover her mistakes seeing as how your healer could afk, the dps could carry, and the tank could afk longer than the healer lolol

But now, now that people have to OMG SPEND 1-2MINUTES ON A BOSS vs. 10 seconds, and healers gather slightly more aggro, and it's not a total faceroll 5 minute experience to be in a dungeon, all the impatient people are jerks with much shorter limits.

But the person who said "this isn't new" - is right.
And it's more so annoying to these impatient idiots(like the ones who yelled at your daughter) to have a TANK who's a newbie vs. any other role....tho a newbie healer would trigger some people too.

Nevertheless, your best bet would be to try and run with a healer who can cover your daughter's mistakes and be that majority 3rd vote you need to kick an a-hole DPS if need be......but most dps will shush tf up when they realize the tank AND healer are grouped, seeing as how they have to wait much longer for another dungeon pop than a tank or healer does.

To everyone posting here, I do want to make a point to say: please don't chop this behavior up to kids and younger adults.....because that's a TOTAL cop out! A TONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN of 30-50yo men get on this game and act like moronic immature hormonal boys who treat their male counterparts like frat boy besties/rivals and women like incompetent children or objects, and there are a TON of grown women who get on this game and act like a bunch of Jr. High mean girls who ignore, and are catty/rude/dismissive of, their female counterparts all in the name of some cliqueish HS-like competition of being "THE MAIN GIRL" in the guild clique, and so on........
A LOT of the people who have been the worst offenders towards me in terms of insults and toxicity, have been grown adults over the age of 35......SO PLEASE, LETS NOT ACT like all this toxicity is coming from the 15-25yo's who play, that's nonsense. It's coming from everywhere, it is FAR too hard to find niceness and understanding in this game, or any game really, anymore.....people are mean, snobby elitist........who have such little time for newbies, being helpful, and positive.


OP, I doubt you'll see this - but if you do, please feel free to send me a message on this toon in-game, or back here, and drop me your discord or whatever if you'd like, I'm an alt-a-holic and have a healer or two at you and your daughters level and wouldn't mind being that healer that tags along with you guys while you teach her how to tank!

Just PLEASE don't give up on the game, it took me YEARS to find a guild like the one I'm in now with a solid raid team and genuinely nice people.......honestly, it took YEARS... I almost gave up multiple times, but a few good people from this very forum, and in-game, kept encouraging me and you know - they were right! This game is great, and there ARE great ppl who still play this game, they're just harder to find, but it is SOOOO worth it to put in the effort to find them!!!!

Also, as a female who has mainly tanked and healed since joining WoW, and tanked all of Legion, PLEASE don't let your daughter give up on being a tank if she actually does enjoy it.......yes it will be harder for her as a girl, and yes people will be a lot more short with a female tank than a male tank, and yes some idiots will automatically assume she's bad because she's a female tank, but please just tell her to ignore those type of people, they're NOT the only type of ppl who play!!! She needs to learn to take the negativity and trolls in stride, and not let them actually get to her or ruin the game for her! i HATE seeing so many women bullied out of Tank positions......and feeling like they HAVE to heal or dps. I'd be tanking BFA if I could have found a guild that needed a tank!! Q.Q lol
Somewhere being Deadmines and Ragefire Chasm.

I don't get why this is such a complicated concept.

Why do people insist on "learning tanking" in friggin' Stonecore.

There's such a thing as gradations of difficulty... Stonecore is harder than DM and RFC. +10 Shrine is harder than Stonecore... And I don't care how experienced you are. If you go up against ozruk and don't know his mechanics you're going to die. Period. It's why I routinely see melee die every single time on that fight.
10/08/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Beraaht
Two wrongs don't make a right, but I don't believe you shouldn't "victim blame" either.

Darwinism isn't victim blaming. You go in and try to abuse others, they will abuse you right back. Don't want people to curse you out ? Don't try to co-opt their playtime for your personal endeavours.
I'm sorry, but are you seriously stating that simply joining a dungeon as a new tank is the equivalent of "abusing" other players? Abuse so great that it's valid AND appropriate to curse them out? Really? That's the hill you're going to die on?
10/08/2018 07:59 AMPosted by Xanastus
As unfortunate as it is, it's the internet and anonymity encourages it. My advice is to group up with friends or guildmates when learning to avoid random lfg people that just want to faceroll through dungeons.


This exactly op, most of these players are total jackhats, dont pug if you can help it. Maybe take her to some lower dungeons and you can show her the ropes.

Im sorry that you child was exposed to that, i am familiar with the type of nasty trash these players can spew in a dungeon. Blizzard really does not do anything about single reports, they only care about the spam reports that silence people.
10/08/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Synsha
I'm sorry, but are you seriously stating that simply joining a dungeon as a new tank is the equivalent of "abusing" other players? Abuse so great that it's valid AND appropriate to curse them out? Really? That's the hill you're going to die on?


Yes. I am saying queuing into content levels way above your play level, knowing you're going to be a negative for the run for the other people in there is "abusing" other players.

I also never said it was valid or appropriate. Quote me where I said that. Keep your feigned outrage to yourself, it's unbecoming of you.

I said it's EXPECTED. Not valid or appropriate. EXPECTED. You abuse others, they will abuse you right back. Is any of it valid or appropriate ? No. But if you didn't want to get stung, don't kick the hornet's nest.

Is it appropriate that hornets sting you and inject you with venom ? No. Did you bring it upon yourself by kicking their nest ? Yes.

Too nuanced for you ?

10/08/2018 11:05 AMPosted by Iskandi
This exactly op, most of these players are total jackhats, dont pug if you can help it.


Pretty sure in this case the "pugs" would have also appreciated the OP not use them for his little teaching experiment.
Yes. I am saying queuing into content levels way above your play level, knowing you're going to be a negative for the run for the other people in there is "abusing" other players.
The only way to know that something is above your play level is to go in there and try it out. It's impossible to know otherwise. And for your information, there are people in the RANDOM queue who are perfectly fine with someone learning the ropes. It is afterall a RANDOM queue.
I also never said it was valid or appropriate. Quote me where I said that. Keep your feigned outrage to yourself, it's unbecoming of you.

Oh give me a break Beraaht. I'm not the one here equating a new player joining my group to abuse of that group. If anyone is being "outraged" or "delicate" here it's you. I on the other hand don't have an issue with someone new joining the group, and if I'm not up for it then I can kindly show them the door.

I've already stated that I have no problem with that. I don't see a new player as some form of abusive element in my game time that requires the EXPECTED result of me calling them all forms of vulgarity.
Is it appropriate that hornets sting you and inject you with venom ? No. Did you bring it upon yourself by kicking their nest ? Yes.
If you go in there as a new player, and then start throwing stones at them when they state your inadequacies, fair enough... You're kicking the hornets nest. I have no issue with a response. For you though, their mere existence in your group is enough to start stinging.
Too nuanced for you ?

/eyeroll
For a moment I thought "why not have a queue for beginners/those learning to heal and tank" with no expectations on a fast run, but chances for others to teach people so we have more tanks and healers once they learn.

Then I came back to earth, this is WOW with its toxic community, people would join to jeer at the people trying to learn and then they would all quit.
No you aren't wrong.
Unfortunately, and it's quite sick, but statements like..

"It was a risk to take. You probably knew this could happen, unless you're new to online gaming yourself. But putting her in a leading role? That's just asking for it."

..as cold and crappy as they are, they are none the less the norm now.

People are b@stard covered b@stards with b@stard filling.
10/08/2018 08:04 AMPosted by Dfat
“She wasn't pulling fast enough or keeping aggro or doing what everyone else wanted” then teach her alone or with your group of friends. People have only so much time and they don’t wanna waste it watching your daughter doing mistakes just for your information.

And then you reported them for not wanting to waste time and actually play the game? Salty much?

Don’t victimize your daughter, and make the other 3 people look evil. In reality they wanted to play the game and not waste time, that’s it.

Oh no, he's exactly right. Leveling dungeons is where you learn. And if you read entire post, you sould see there was name calling and harrasment. I don't understand people, just form your own grp? That's telling the trolls they are right or they win. Zero accountability in that. How about we as a community say enough is enough? Instead of just ignore them and things continue to get worse.
10/08/2018 09:53 AMPosted by Blightfall
... I'm not so sure about that. People wanted CC in their groups back then, if you didn't have it your chances of getting into a group were significantly decreased. Classic is not necessarily the answer to this problem, doing something about the queue probably is.

Edit: Or stealth groups with Druids and Rogues.


This is partially untrue. The only reliable (at best) CC in the game was a mage or a hunter, besides that there wasn't any CC unless you are running a specific dungeon with undead or beasts. You didn't 'need' a lot of cc in dungeons, you just had to pull a lot more carefully and focus better if you didn't have it. As for stealth groups, I don't remember a lot of people running these at all.


Wrong. Warlocks had banish and Succubus seduction, and there were plenty of elemental dungeons. Improved sap was loads better but you could still make use of stealth-breaking sap. Eventually wyvern sting became a thing. It wasn't until BC when paladin tanks just pulled everything held it with consecration, and lived with ardent defender.

Strat was a common stealth run. You also had the Dire maul tribute stealth run which I came up with myself. I farmed a boss in the prison section of BRD and soloed mother smolderweb after stealthing to her for two items i needed. You either didn't play vanilla or you didn't play very well. Which is ironic given that little "don't talk about vanilla" condescension.
Ya we should have more safe spaces in wow lol.....
At the start of the run, inform the rest of the group of what is going down. Then they can leave if they wish.

Unless I am mistaken, do you get deserter or something if you get booted? If not...shes a tank...should be able to reQ real fast.
10/08/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Beraaht
10/08/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Synsha
I'm sorry, but are you seriously stating that simply joining a dungeon as a new tank is the equivalent of "abusing" other players? Abuse so great that it's valid AND appropriate to curse them out? Really? That's the hill you're going to die on?


Yes. I am saying queuing into content levels way above your play level, knowing you're going to be a negative for the run for the other people in there is "abusing" other players.

I also never said it was valid or appropriate. Quote me where I said that. Keep your feigned outrage to yourself, it's unbecoming of you.

I said it's EXPECTED. Not valid or appropriate. EXPECTED. You abuse others, they will abuse you right back. Is any of it valid or appropriate ? No. But if you didn't want to get stung, don't kick the hornet's nest.

Is it appropriate that hornets sting you and inject you with venom ? No. Did you bring it upon yourself by kicking their nest ? Yes.

Too nuanced for you ?

10/08/2018 11:05 AMPosted by Iskandi
This exactly op, most of these players are total jackhats, dont pug if you can help it.


Pretty sure in this case the "pugs" would have also appreciated the OP not use them for his little teaching experiment.

Just ghe fact that you think learning to tank for grps in LOW LEVEL LEVELING CONTENT is considered abuse proves how ignorant you are. Anything else you say is moot. GJ.
this example among many other experiences and examples are why I avoid pug dungeons and raids. That is unless I need something really really badly, and even then there maybe a grindier option and I'd rather do that instead of pug with randos.
10/08/2018 07:49 AMPosted by Gryff
So yesterday I took the day to level with my daughter threw Pandaria content. Me on my 88 Mage and her on her 87 Druid. We decided to do a few random dungeons. No harm it is only leveling content I thought.

Well I was wrong. What has happened to the player base? It is leveling content! My daughter was queuing as a Guardian Druid. I was teaching her how to tank. I tank on a Guardian Druid all the time.

Anyway I was telling her how to pull a few encounters and she made a few mistakes. But then it just went too far. She wasn't pulling fast enough or keeping aggro or doing what everyone else wanted at the speed they wanted.

They then began to call my daughter names. I would simply say that she is learning it is leveling content and if they don't like it to simply leave but then the vote kick goes off and my daughter is removed from the group for doing nothing wrong but trying to learn to play.

I have already reported the abusive name callers. I hope some form of action does get taken when it comes to this. Again it is learning to play leveling content. Not even that difficult and she was doing decent.

I am proud of the progress she is making. Then people go and call her retard and sped. Way to ruin her confidence. I mean is it really that damaging to your schedule and plans to wipe in leveling content that players have to resort to name calling?

I want these verbally abusive players punished! Am I wrong?


esrb: online content not rated, perhaps you should read that on the back of your wow bfa box and or on the website. I can understand your frustration however you cant expect other players to sit there and wait while you teach. If you want to teach you need to do that on your own time base.
10/08/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Beraaht
10/08/2018 10:25 AMPosted by Synsha
Agreed, it's not hard. But everyone has to start somewhere. What you take for granted others are still figuring out.


Somewhere being Deadmines and Ragefire Chasm.

I don't get why this is such a complicated concept.

Why do people insist on "learning tanking" in friggin' Stonecore.

10/08/2018 10:25 AMPosted by Synsha
Either way, this back and forth is irrelevant. I already stated that majority rules, no matter what. I was fine with them being removed from the dungeon, I'm not fine with them being cursed out in the process.


Two wrongs don't make a right, but I don't believe you shouldn't "victim blame" either.

Darwinism isn't victim blaming. You go in and try to abuse others, they will abuse you right back. Don't want people to curse you out ? Don't try to co-opt their playtime for your personal endeavours.


Players like you are the reason why there's a shortage of tanks and in general the very reason why WoW losers players on the daily. Players like you are a plague on mmo gaming in it's entirety and need to stick to games like LoL where your self centered egotistical and arrogant behavior has a place to grow and fester.
As a parent, I know it is my responsibility to know what I am exposing my child to before I expose them to it. Certainly, mistakes have been made, but I don't use my child as a banner.

I'd have respected the post more if you'd left the child part out and addressed the community in regards to players who are learning.

All the same, a shame this happened, and hope that you both recover from it and move forward.
10/08/2018 08:04 AMPosted by Dfat
“She wasn't pulling fast enough or keeping aggro or doing what everyone else wanted” then teach her alone or with your group of friends. People have only so much time and they don’t wanna waste it watching your daughter doing mistakes just for your information.

And then you reported them for not wanting to waste time and actually play the game? Salty much?

Don’t victimize your daughter, and make the other 3 people look evil. In reality they wanted to play the game and not waste time, that’s it.


Right.. so it is okay to call someone names? Just because that other person is not performing or moving to other's standards? Get real.

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