ESO made me realize how far behind WoW is...

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Interesting. I'll give it a try.

I won't give up on WoW, it's a fun game when I'm in the mood for it.

But i'm not so obtuse as to be opposed to new experiences. I've heard the game really redeemed itself after it's failure to launch.
I'd imagine the counter point is that ESO does not have a very well established end-game scene, especially no where near as competitive as WoW's.
Would you disagree?

Obviously, even though this game is massive, there are always going to be things that are focused on in terms of development.
Outside of an entire remake of the leveling system, what do you suggest they do to make it better?
10/14/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Wrathu
Your response isn’t much better. They are MMOs. Both of them are farming simulators. You get to the end and grind out whatever until the next new bits launch. Yes the game play is different. Yes eso talks to me. But the actual mechanics to keep you coming back in either game aren’t that different.


Well he did say " ESO will never touch WoW until it's on its death bed," but ESO already touching WoW before it reaches its deathbed. Your post sounds more reasonable to agree on.
10/14/2018 05:32 PMPosted by Metrohaha
what do you suggest they do to make it better?


I would start with:

  • Find someone with a better "vision".
  • Get rid of titanforging and warforging.
  • Get classes back to MoP design.
  • Remove War Mode and bring pvp servers back.
  • Fix the guild controls.
  • Stop giving welfare gear handouts so fast.
  • Fix class balance or hire competent developers who can.
  • Hire developers and CM's with thick skin so they aren't scared to talk to players.
  • Edit:
  • get rid of CRZ, sharding, and cross-server grouping so we can have a sense of server communities again.
  • 10/14/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Ifianozim
    And GW2 made me realize how trash WoW's open world content is


    Along with other features, that is where GW2 really shines in comparison to WoW. Leveling through the open world doesn't feel like doing a set of chores. There's tons of side areas with fully voiced NPCs, events that are interesting, and the long quest chains are served up in manageable chunks. To top it off, exploration is a real thing in GW2 unlike WoW. You can quest through an entire area, come back at a later time and find an area, event or quest chain you didn't even know existed the first time you came through. And that content will still be relevant to your character with the scaling system.

    GW2's open world feels huge and real.

    In WoW, it's daily quests or bust for the open world.
    It is really odd. There are three MMOs out there that I would rate as "better" than WoW overall, and yet WoW is the game I still play the most. The main reasons are friends, group content, and GW2's lack of the trinity.

    WoW raids and dungeons are just simply better. The combat systems in GW2, FF, and ESO just don't translate as well to group play in my opinion. WoW still maintains a higher level of polish when it comes to group synergy and combat.
    10/14/2018 12:52 PMPosted by Warstrike
    10/14/2018 11:01 AMPosted by Ågnarr
    Why are you here if eso is so great?


    Because people play more than one game? Yes ESO is awesome. I played for 2k hours so came back to WoW for a break. Thought I would give BFA a go to see how its going...that was a mistake.


    I just noticed that you're wearing field marshal armor AND an ARATHOR tabard. It would be 50 counts treason to not /salute you.
    10/14/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Brutalistica
    10/14/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Wrathu
    Your response isn’t much better. They are MMOs. Both of them are farming simulators. You get to the end and grind out whatever until the next new bits launch. Yes the game play is different. Yes eso talks to me. But the actual mechanics to keep you coming back in either game aren’t that different.


    Well he did say " ESO will never touch WoW until it's on its death bed," but ESO already touching WoW before it reaches its deathbed. Your post sounds more reasonable to agree on.


    Except ESO has nothing on WoW except player housing and the appeal to people you never want to actually progress a character.

    So until you give a counter argument of how ESO is even remotely close to WoW as an mmorpg you got nothing but bias. I play both and understand they are two complete different games and appeals.
    I really, really enjoyed ESO PvP in the first several months of the game. Then they started nerfing all the fun stuff and ignoring exploits. Pops dwindled and it wasn't worth it to stay. I would be surprised if it's anywhere as fun now as it was after launch.

    The PvE part I didn't like much, though I would think WoW PvE players would find it more challenging and rewarding than this game.
    The thing that made me quit ESO was that horrendous decision they made for character voices, where they decided to just mix up a bunch of different voice actors for your toon. Totally immersion-breaking to the point that I couldn't stand it anymore.
    ESO is not that great.

    And I must say neither are any of the other MMORPGs. I haven’t played a game hardcore in awhile nor do I care too. But if a new great MMORPG ever comes out, I would be very interested. Everything else is stale.

    I still have lil moments of good WoW time so I stick around. I did recently unsub and will pay for wow via gold. So it’s a win win.
    10/14/2018 05:41 PMPosted by Tornado
    It is really odd. There are three MMOs out there that I would rate as "better" than WoW overall, and yet WoW is the game I still play the most. The main reasons are friends, group content, and GW2's lack of the trinity.

    WoW raids and dungeons are just simply better. The combat systems in GW2, FF, and ESO just don't translate as well to group play in my opinion. WoW still maintains a higher level of polish when it comes to group synergy and combat.


    That's an assessment that I would agree with. WoW's dungeon and raid game play structure is superior to the other MMOs out right now. I think that's actually the only thing holding the game together in its current iteration for many players. Take away WoW's instanced PvE content and what are you left with in the game right now?

    Personally, I actually prefer GW2's non-trinity concept given the extent of the character customization it provides but it does contribute to the issues you stated with raid and dungeon content.
    I have played Wow since release, i played EQ1 before that.i played Asheron's call, o played DaOC, I played eq2, i played skyrim, i played Eso, I played Rift.

    None of them, except maybe EQ1 and i left that to play WoW hesitantly mind you.
    because to me at the time nothing compared to Everquest.

    World of Warcraft caught my attention and caught it fast. All these games listed above are great. I think Skyrim took me away from WoW for the longest time. A few months. Something always brings you back to this game.
    10/14/2018 10:59 AMPosted by Grellos
    On the leveling, crafting and atmosphere portion of a MMO.

    The questing in ESO is amazing. I cannot believe how much better it is than WoW. Crafting in ESO is okay, but its 5x better than WoW. I tohught BFO had decent atmosphere, but it does not touch ESO. I actually feel like a part of the game and world.

    WoW is obviously better at end game raiding, but the rest? Why would I play WoW as a casual player when ESO just does that portion so much better?

    WoW needs to up its game, or its going to be a hardcore niche game imo.


    HeelVsBabyface has some great videos on this, doing a comparison of different aspects of the different MMO's out right now. he doesn't try to berate WoW, but instead tries to create a dialogue about things that he feels need improvement, which I can respect.
    10/14/2018 05:45 PMPosted by Paladan
    Except ESO has nothing on WoW except player housing and the appeal to people you never want to actually progress a character.

    So until you give a counter argument of how ESO is even remotely close to WoW as an mmorpg you got nothing but bias. I play both and understand they are two complete different games and appeals.


    I don't need to give you an counter argument when ESO getting a influx of players as we speak. Both games have their pros and cons. I suppose now since ESO is in the top 10 or 5 that's a sign they're kind of close to WoW?
    10/14/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Kittredge
    10/14/2018 10:59 AMPosted by Grellos
    On the leveling, crafting and atmosphere portion of a MMO.

    The questing in ESO is amazing. I cannot believe how much better it is than WoW. Crafting in ESO is okay, but its 5x better than WoW. I tohught BFO had decent atmosphere, but it does not touch ESO. I actually feel like a part of the game and world.

    WoW is obviously better at end game raiding, but the rest? Why would I play WoW as a casual player when ESO just does that portion so much better?

    WoW needs to up its game, or its going to be a hardcore niche game imo.


    HeelVsBabyface has some great videos on this, doing a comparison of different aspects of the different MMO's out right now. he doesn't try to berate WoW, but instead tries to create a dialogue about things that he feels need improvement, which I can respect.


    I love HeelsVsBabyface because out of all the people who do content on YouTube that criticize the game, HVB does it in such an eloquent, sarcastic, and hilarious way. He's like the firebrand preacher at the pulpit.

    He's more calm and objective in the one you're talking about though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqQzshaBlwI
    I've played ESO, and the questing experienced bored me so hard before I was even level 30. Not sure how that equates to it behind behind WoW. The combat in ESO even is very rigid compared to WoW, my character literally has to minimally rubberband and "snap" to a stop, just to do any combat action with a ranged attack. Like the hell?
    10/14/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Smadinker
    10/14/2018 05:32 PMPosted by Metrohaha
    what do you suggest they do to make it better?


    I would start with:

  • Find someone with a better "vision".
  • Get rid of titanforging and warforging.
  • Get classes back to MoP design.
  • Remove War Mode and bring pvp servers back.
  • Fix the guild controls.
  • Stop giving welfare gear handouts so fast.
  • Fix class balance or hire competent developers who can.
  • Hire developers and CM's with thick skin so they aren't scared to talk to players.
  • Edit:
  • get rid of CRZ, sharding, and cross-server grouping so we can have a sense of server communities again.


  • haha, thanks for the detailed response! I should have been more specific though. I meant fix leveling.
    Welcome to the honeymoon phase of trying a new MMORPG. I've caught myself thinking I'll play GW2 forever and it's the best thing imaginable and then I'll be bored after two months. Same thing with ESO. It's fun, but it doesn't have a lot of lasting appeal.
    ESO sucks, questing is boring, end game is bad, combat feels absolutely terrible. I forced myself to play that game and did not like it at all.

    Crafting also felt terrible. PvP as well.

    The only thing I could say about it that wasn't negative is it had better character customisation.

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