Would the Orcs be better if...

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As someone who pretty much says Elder Scrolls Lore and Philosophy >>> Abyss >>> everything blizzard has shat over the last 10 years

Would The Orcish society be better if Malacath became their Deity and God King?

For those who Doesn't know, Malacath is the Daedric Prince of the Orcs in The Elder Scrolls lore, the Father of the Pariah race, and the former Elven Aedric god known as Trinimac.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Malacath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REpJ1GopKog

if we take from Post War3 and onwards, would the Orcs accept his philosophy?

because if we look at it, Pre-MoP Garrosh was pretty much his "Champion"
Considering the deities in WoW are starting to play second banana to mortal characters, sure. Let's bring in some third party ones and see what happens.
If Malacath was real, I'd set up a shrine to him so fast it'd make the Light-worshippers feel inadequate.

But the problem with bringing one Daedric lord over is that it lets others in too. So we get madcaps like Clavicus Vile, Mephala, Molag Bal and other unsavoury types sneaking through as well.

We don't need some idiot to bring Molag Bal into Azeroth. Sylvanas is bad enough.
10/22/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Grandblade
Considering the deities in WoW are starting to play second banana to mortal characters, sure. Let's bring in some third party ones and see what happens.

10/22/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Kregor
If Malacath was real, I'd set up a shrine to him so fast it'd make the Light-worshippers feel inadequate.

But the problem with bringing one Daedric lord over is that it lets others in too. So we get madcaps like Clavicus Vile, Mephala, Molag Bal and other unsavoury types sneaking through as well.

We don't need some idiot to bring Molag Bal into Azeroth. Sylvanas is bad enough.


Well its not the 1st time that people jokes that ELUNE is no one else than Meridia or Azura, due to how they treat the NElves and how their philosophies are mix of both.

or how Azshara is The Anticipation of Boethiah, Tyrande is Azura, and Maiev is Mephala.

Sylvanas being Literally a Daughter of Coldharbour of sorts, since most of her actions fits Molag-bal's Sphere of Dominance, Slavery and Undeath, though she didn't committed @#!!@#!% to create vampires as he did... yet.

Paladins for an Extent are Devotes of Stendarr mixed with Daedric Prince Meridia, due to their hatred against Necromancy, Undeath and Demons, the Original Order of the Silver hand Being the Knights of the Nine, though they were spared of Pelinal Whitestrake(Garithos doesn't count).

Mages are servants of Julianos and MAGNUS is the father of Magic

and the list goes on.
But since blizzard is making use of the idea of the warcraft gods being more "present" of late, i wouldn't be surprised if the Deity who rules death, or even Elune are what i said.
Seriously though - ES orcs are essentially the same "noble savage" trope orcs in WoW are trying to be, and their moral outlook is pretty similar. I don't think bringing Malacath would actually change the orcs all that much from what they are now.

But i would take Sheogorath...
ALTERAC SWISS CHEESE! FOR EVERYONE!

The whole point of Malacath is do it yourself, and if you can't, die trying and fall like the weakling that you are. And if Malacath was in WoW, he would have smacked Garrosh so hard his tattoos would fall off. Not for being a warmongering mass murdering psycho, but for relying on an outside source - Old God juice - instead of his own brawn and strength, and for sending a rogue to assasinate Vol'jin instead of challenging him himself.
As long as he drops good loot when we eventually raid him.

I could use a Voldendrung transmog.
10/22/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Hackbrew
As long as he drops good loot when we eventually raid him.

I could use a Voldendrung transmog.
That'd go well with the Siege of Zuldazar plate set.
10/22/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Kyiwani
Seriously though - ES orcs are essentially the same "noble savage" trope orcs in WoW are trying to be, and their moral outlook is pretty similar. I don't think bringing Malacath would actually change the orcs all that much from what they are now.

But i would take Sheogorath...
ALTERAC SWISS CHEESE! FOR EVERYONE!

The whole point of Malacath is do it yourself, and if you can't, die trying and fall like the weakling that you are. And if Malacath was in WoW, he would have smacked Garrosh so hard his tattoos would fall off. Not for being a warmongering mass murdering psycho, but for relying on an outside source - Old God juice - instead of his own brawn and strength, and for sending a rogue to assasinate Vol'jin instead of challenging him himself.


this is why i said that pre-MoP garrosh would be his champion, Post MoP Garrosh would be a shame and he would send someone to murder him for his failure.

just look at the Cursed tribe Quest in Skyrim, or the Fall of Orsinium in ESO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6MX8qG3Jg8

he would see the Demon raged orcs from the 1st and second war as failures, but he would consider a few orcs like the Frostwolves, the Uncorrupted Mag'Har or even Doomhammer for an extent, as Worthy of his Blessing and Teachings.
10/22/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Diomades
Would The Orcish society be better if Malacath became their Deity and God King?


NO.

Malacath fits the ES. He doesn't fix the orcs of Warcraft.
10/22/2018 05:54 PMPosted by Treng
10/22/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Diomades
Would The Orcish society be better if Malacath became their Deity and God King?


NO.

Malacath fits the ES. He doesn't fix the orcs of Warcraft.


seeing how blizzard's lore department, player NPC drone fanboyism and years of Kosak's shenanigans did to the the old race...

i disagree
10/22/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Diomades
seeing how blizzard's lore department, player NPC drone fanboyism and years of Kosak's shenanigans did to the the old race...

i disagree
Trinimac was eaten by Boethia and defecated out as the Daedric Prince whose sphere is the patronage of the spurned and ostracized. His elves were likewise cursed to be of similar form and function. The rejected refuse pile.

Telling orc players that orcs are fecal matter does not fix orcs. It doubles down that there's no getting better from here.
I don't like the idea of the Orcs having a particular deity to worship, even a daedric one.

The Orcs are meant to worship their ancestors and reviere the Elements. While the elementals may be mercurial to say the least and ancestor worship has been used against the Orcs on more than one occasion, it's a part of their identity that ties them thematically to shamanism far closer than almost any other race, including the other races of the Horde.

Setting them up with a specific deity feels like it would be moving them towards a kind of monotheism that would make them too close to what the Alliance was in the first few warcraft games before they switched from worshiping 'god' to worshipping the Light.

Although I could be persuaded to accept a duotheistic religion if we were to bring in Mork and Gork from the warhammer franchise. I think the orcs could use more cunningly brutal and brutally cunning characters.
I actually like the way WoW has handled religion. For the most part, there are no gods -- only wellsprings of primordial power that respond to different mythic archetypes. The fundaments are more like Platonic Forms than divine wills.

This allows for a lot of interesting subtlety in terms of how religion works out. For example, I always find it confusing when like-aligned clerics and inquisitors do battle in D&D; aren't they wielding the same gods' wills? But it makes perfect sense why the Light serves Faol and Anduin and the Scarlet Crusade and Xe'ra.

I'd be loath to mess with that facet of WoW.
Actually, seeing your arguments, I changed my mind.

Just because one universes deities are proving lackluster doesn't mean another universe's deities will be any better, especially when there's such a conflict of culture. Elder Scrolls Orcs =/= Warcraft Orcs.
10/22/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Feldaran
I actually like the way WoW has handled religion. For the most part, there are no gods -- only wellsprings of primordial power that respond to different mythic archetypes. The fundaments are more like Platonic Forms than divine wills.

This allows for a lot of interesting subtlety in terms of how religion works out. For example, I always find it confusing when like-aligned clerics and inquisitors do battle in D&D; aren't they wielding the same gods' wills? But it makes perfect sense why the Light serves Faol and Anduin and the Scarlet Crusade and Xe'ra.

I'd be loath to mess with that facet of WoW.


To add to this, it gets away from neatly tracking onto real world allegories. which could cause even worse toxic fighting than is already present in the setting.
10/22/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Kregor
If Malacath was real, I'd set up a shrine to him so fast it'd make the Light-worshippers feel inadequate.

But the problem with bringing one Daedric lord over is that it lets others in too. So we get madcaps like Clavicus Vile, Mephala, Molag Bal and other unsavoury types sneaking through as well.

We don't need some idiot to bring Molag Bal into Azeroth. Sylvanas is bad enough.


I say bring it on. Hircine would make for an excellent wild god.

Then I could be a druidic troll werewolf and show the Worgen how it is done.

Or dare I say it... A weredinosaur?
No, orcs from TES are different from orcs from Warcraft, to which I prefer the latter even despite their many narrative flaws in recent years.

AKA I don't wanna play some mutant elf.
10/22/2018 11:50 PMPosted by Vivette
No, orcs from TES are different from orcs from Warcraft, to which I prefer the latter even despite their many narrative flaws in recent years.

AKA I don't wanna play some mutant elf.


Not to question your preference itself, but... Every race in WoW is a mutated something or other.
10/22/2018 11:56 PMPosted by Kisin
Not to question your preference itself, but... Every race in WoW is a mutated something or other.


Fair but mutated rock > mutated elf. We already have so many variants of elf in Warcraft.
10/22/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Hackbrew
As long as he drops good loot when we eventually raid him.

I could use a Voldendrung transmog.


Raiding and beating a daedric prince? Ok

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