Did We Make Toxicity?

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10/29/2018 07:08 AMPosted by Stripendella
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivWY9wn5ps

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you want to make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself, and then make a change


Good old michael.
I don't think it has anything to do with the playerbase 'growing up' and becoming jaded as someone mentioned above. Wow has simply attracted new young players consistently over its life and holy !@#$ something has happened to kids in the last 10 years.

In my late 20s and manage a restaurant and the most popular kids I employ see themselves as 'spicy memelords' who speak almost exclusively in regurgitated memes and consider 'memeing with the boys' a hobby. I haven't had a real conversation with an employee in like 2 years. I'm obviously losing touch but I'm really ok with that.

I just imagine that behind every troll post is one of these weird kids and many players who started with the game are now older and generally confused about the perceived toxicity. Being told to get cancer or drink bleach isn't mean or meant literally at all, it's just memes bro.
It's a human nature thing man. You start seeing it and understanding it more the older you get. People are....just awful.
Yes.

Gamers are to blame for gamers being terrible people. Sure, the environment encourages it, but it doesn’t force us to be jerks.

Whenever some decides to not be a nice person, it is a choice. A choice they make.
And we are all responsible for our choices, and we also, to a limited extent, bear responsibility for the after effects of those choices. So many gamers suck at being decent people in part because other gamers make it so easy to CHOOSE to accept that as a path of least resistance.

Blizzard CHOOSES not to intervene because they are afraid of lost revenue.

Other players CHOOSE not to intervene because of peer pressure, apathy, fear, or futility.

We all “choose” to tolerate it because what’s the alternative? Stop playing?

Some choice.
10/29/2018 07:16 AMPosted by Plainswander
Some choice.


But even the terrible choices are still a choice nonetheless. Thicker skin is also a choice too.
10/29/2018 07:10 AMPosted by Forsetî
I don't think it has anything to do with the playerbase 'growing up' and becoming jaded as someone mentioned above. Wow has simply attracted new young players consistently over its life and holy !@#$ something has happened to kids in the last 10 years.


Has it though? Are there really even that many people under 25 playing?
I feed on toxicity.
The world in general man. Zero accountability anymore. Facts don't matter and people can get away with doing and saying basically anything.

That being said we used to have a set of balances and checks. Servers where if you were a douche people would blacklist you and maybe you'd learn. Now people just spam lfg stuff and never build any relationships and have zero accountability. Can't really go back in time though. I'm interested to see how classic turns out. The private servers were pretty successful.
10/29/2018 03:49 AMPosted by Mandrel
I think it's a reflection of society, not WoW.

Just read the news.


I agree 100 % with you that we "in general" as a society have completely gone of the rails in regards to many things and if it has not been done already I think many a thesis could be written on the hows / whys this has happened but will not enter my own opinions on this here as that will only fuel more debates and take away from the OP's initial question.

With the above being said, it is very clear that that the net, FB and gaming for a few examples tend to bring out the worst in "some" people (and I had no idea the net would become this way as it literally could have made us more connected and educated beyond belief) if we "as a society" had chosen to use this wealth of information for creativity, learning and positive communication instead of whatever it is that we have done with what could have been the most amazing tool of our time.

However, getting back to the OP, yes, although we can blame society as mentioned in the 2nd post, that sadly is almost an excuse for us in the gaming community to not call out the incredibly selfish and immature behavior we all see from time to time in our "community" which is a word I use very lightly these days.

In the end, we can blame Blizzard, we can blame society for some of this BUT if we do not take steps here and there to make it better in whatever ways we can then in the end, "we" are the ones to blame. The silent ones who ignore then wonder what went wrong in the end.
The first online game I played was Doom II. Someone had set up a BBS type server not too far from where I lived and sold time for playing over dial up. It was pretty new still, it was in PCWorld or whatever PC gaming magazine was big back then as the new thing. I don't really remember anyone being bad to others, it was still new connecting with random people to play games.

Next game I remember playing online was Quake 2. You set up on a table then started the game, giving everyone a chance to talk before and after matches. Most of the people by far were chill, but you'd get that guy who got slaughtered who would tell everyone off after the battle. We'd shrug it off, wasn't too common but it happened.

I think some people associate heavy with their characters, like you killing their characters was killing them which caused them to go off. As we increase our virtual presence we start to associate our identity more with our virtual self, so I don't think it's anything but changing culture that we're seeing.
It's the society in general, nowadays we have a society filled with cowards and snowflakes, ppl just get offended for everything and actually the hypocrisy is huge cause u CAN'T attack them if they express what they are thinking but they can actually offend u if they want cause u are being a "disrespectful, racist, homophobic scum" if u don't agree with their opinion, just go and read the youtube comment box on almost every vídeo, we just have tolerated things that were not supposed to be tolerated, and now we have the consequences, now u can't say anything or do anything without being attacked for it, just read this forum, take a look at warbringers Sylvannas tweets and YouTube vídeo, there's the answer u are looking for, nowadays we have a selfish snowflake society, and judging it by the way it is right now, things are gonna get worst
All of the above, tied to being a mainly single-player game tied to CRZ.

You don't need a good name/rep anymore to get in a pug. Your name and guild affiliation are meaningless now. You don't need, not to get booted from your guild because no one else will have you. Guilds, don't need to keep/retain people anymore, or be able to work with other guilds for 25s or other raids. You don't need to be able to advertise in trade chat looking for a group/members for something, and people go "hey James whatcha need?" and drop what they're doing because you've got a good server rep. Your name/rep used to mean something concrete, whether it was your ability to get in groups, or to put one together.

We're paying the price for convenience. Lots our collective fault, lots Blizz's fault for refusing to bite the bullet and consolidate low pop realms.

I don't see it changing, because now this esports stuff is big. Which is a shame, because quite a bit of this new content like islands and warfronts, if implemented just a little better, would be excellent good group/guild content to play. Instead, it's join a queue and play mindless content with strangers, wham bam, without any thank you ma'am. With the reward the same no matter how it turns out, or what your contribution was.

Lots Blizz could do...like finally consolidating realms. Sharply reducing the use of LFG, like only being able to use it for entry level dungeons. Doubling down on CRZ and making CRZ connected realms functionally the same realm. Then reduce LFG to only those CRZ connected realms. Making guilds worth joining again.
It's an internet forum by nature it will be toxic.
Communities, ultimately, need to police themselves. This can only truly happen if people know each other well enough to make standing within the community matter.

As we continue to isolate ourselves and value the opinions of people we don't know over the people that we do, you begin to destroy the very threads that hold a community together.
10/29/2018 03:47 AMPosted by Crookedmán
Is this our fault?

Yes. Yes, it is "our" fault (or the fault of players rather than the game).

Blizzard gave us tools "we" (players in general) asked for that would make grouping easier and make servers "feel" fuller in the way of CRZ and LFG/LFD/LFR. We took those tools, and the anonymity that goes with it, and decided it would be a great idea to treat each other like garbage.

Blizz can't fix player attitudes. The only way they can "fix" the toxicity would be to remove all game features that allow for grouping with anyone outside of your own, singular, server...like it was in Vanilla and TBC, and Wrath before LFD queues were added. They can't, and probably wouldn't even if they could, do that. Players would riot. Definitely in the forums, and probably at Blizz HQ in Irvine.
10/29/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Xianwae
Communities, ultimately, need to police themselves. This can only truly happen if people know each other well enough to make standing within the community matter.

As we continue to isolate ourselves and value the opinions of people we don't know over the people that we do, you begin to destroy the very threads that hold a community together.


I agree100%! Bring back that meaningful feeling of being in a guild. Turn this game back around from a single player game to a multiplayer game. Blizzard really needs to go back to their roots.
10/29/2018 07:48 AMPosted by Hylianlich
It's an internet forum by nature it will be toxic.


Of course. But what lets it be toxic? Anonymity. I bet if there was mandatory REALID on the internet, it'd clean up fast. People WANT to be toxic without repercussions.

Your in-game personna used to be important on your server. The toxic peoples damage could be mostly limited because everyone knew them, had them on ignore, and didn't invite them into groups.
10/29/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Síenna
10/29/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Xianwae
Communities, ultimately, need to police themselves. This can only truly happen if people know each other well enough to make standing within the community matter.

As we continue to isolate ourselves and value the opinions of people we don't know over the people that we do, you begin to destroy the very threads that hold a community together.


I agree100%! Bring back that meaningful feeling of being in a guild. Turn this game back around from a single player game to a multiplayer game. Blizzard really needs to go back to their roots.


I have to admit, I'm completely torn about it. While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, it is hard to deny that the tools we have been given have also been beneficial. Humans tend to take the path of least resistance, and it isn't easy to find a balancing point between quality of life improvements and detachment from relying on community.

It applies to things outside of WoW, too. No one can deny that it's easier to send a text than call someone on the phone. No one is stopping you from making a phone call, but we overwhelmingly choose to use the simpler/quicker form of communication. Even though many would argue that such informal communication is destroying some levels of human relationship, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone saying we should get rid of text messaging altogether.

Honestly not sure where I stand. I've benefited a great deal from the ease of things like Group Finder because of my schedule, but I absolutely see how it has destroyed the need for/sense of community. It's hard to not see the correlation there.
While we are the community, and in a sense we made the community, Blizzard destroyed communities.

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