WoW seems too far gone

General Discussion
1 2 3 10 Next
Attempting to endure BFA content tonight was intolerable.

I honestly have zero hope for this game and its design team.

Well past the point of no return.

This game has been 'wildstarred' to the maximum degree.

I don't see how you can correct the mistakes you've made at this stage.

With Blizzcon coming up I know I won't even bother watching (bought the virtual ticket and everything else in your silly Blizzard store with BlizzBux thanks to your hemorrhaging wow token system) and the classic demo, while "neat" feels like it's about 5+ years too late for me to care.

I tried to hook someone I know up with a free Blizzcon virtual ticket to try out the classic demo, and they literally were not even interested...

...I've been giving away games to random people on my bnet list just because I have nothing else to do with all this worthless Blizzard Balance.

That's not a good sign.

Ultimately, I think the current team botched things up so bad that they know there's no fixing it themselves, which is why we've basically had to siege Blizzard to get them to listen to our feedback, and now they're either going to go too little, too late (nothing really changes) or they'll end up getting a new team to finally turn this game around a few years from now.

Either way, there's just so much work to be done from their current position I don't see how any human could dig their way out of such a deep, vast essential hole, especially when it's probably all for naught (how many expansions does this game have left in it anyway?)

Every day for them must feel like a bigger pile of tickets, to-do's, meetings, and negative fan feedback than the day before.

Lord knows how bad Mondays are compared to the rest of the week...

Point is, I don't see how anyone inside the current WoW design team is going to make it out of the pit that is warcraft's current state and I'll be amazed if even half of them stick around for the next expansion with a likely reduced budget, major constraints from management (to create pressure and a detriment for the same mistakes happening again)... I mean...

As a longtime Blizzard fan (Diablo was the first PC game I ever picked up) I don't see how you're going to correct, and honestly I can see BFA and WoW's current state negatively affecting the whole of Blizzard for years to come.

You're the ones stuck with the massive, exponentially increasing mess you've made as you try to slowly work your way out of it with basic, linear solutions.

My professional advice would be: find new jobs before the holiday season.

Good luck!
10/30/2018 02:27 AMPosted by Nagelring
Every day for them must feel like a bigger pile of tickets, to-do's, meetings, and negative fan feedback than the day before.

They ignore all this stuff. Seriously, the people who deal with the tickets have no connection to the people who dreamed up this mess and thought players would love it even if it was broken all to heck on implementation.

I agree with what you've written, but I'm busy running old content atm, so I won't comment more.
Ah the Nagelring. Iconic in Diablo II, useless in WoW.
10/30/2018 02:27 AMPosted by Nagelring
Attempting to endure BFA content tonight was intolerable.


do you care to get specific?

what were you attempting to do, and why was it intolerable?
Let's not get too histrionic.

What I'm getting out of this, given the pattern, is that the next expansion will be absolutely amazing.

The one after that might cause the downfall of Western civilization, but we'll worry about that when we get there.
10/30/2018 02:35 AMPosted by Nobully
do you care to get specific?
If I thought it would help even the least bit I'd give it a go.

For the sake of accepting your essential inquiry, I'll give you this...

Let me just say that the very basis of even mob interaction has become aversive to me rather than enticing because of the fluctuating combat experience (level scaling, ilvl scaling, etc.).

There's no foundation for "power" in this game.

Literally no solid experience to count on even with a mob's red HP bar.

That's just the tip of the penguin's a**feather, to speak nothing of the iceberg.
10/30/2018 02:37 AMPosted by Pranda
What I'm getting out of this, given the pattern, is that the next expansion will be absolutely amazing.
I'd love to have hope past the event horizon too.
This is the destiny of all theme park mmos. When your development cycle includes abandoning entire mechanics and huge zones to create new ones until the servers shut down you're going to be left with a widening debt of maintenance. Blizzard will continue making instances, mounts, pets, and player gear / skins until the game stops being profitable and nothing more.
I feel like WoW isn't doomed. But there's an incredible amount of work to be done and the current strategy of "don't-listen-and-pretend-it's-not-happening" isn't helping.

BfA is flawed from the very foundation up. Legion had some real issues, but the foundation of it was solid. With BfA?

Azerite Armor is really underwhelming. The powers are crucial enough that there are only certain pieces of armor worth getting, but so passive and unexciting that they don't feel like you're getting stronger.

Warfronts and Island Expeditions are painfully boring. No dynamic events, no way to change them up, no way to appreciate the scenery. Just show up and kill stuff brainlessly and then you win.

The story is awful. Easily the worst it's ever been. The Horde are doofy villains and the Alliance are boring weaklings. No one is having fun.

Azerite is a boring grind. Artifact Power made you feel like you were getting stronger. Azerite just feels like a barrier to playing the game.

The actual content is locked behind so many gates, it's just not worth doing.

WoW isn't dying, but it has been knocked flat on its butt, and the developers are in no rush to get it on its feet.
10/30/2018 02:48 AMPosted by Enekie
WoW isn't dying, but it has been knocked flat on its butt, and the developers are in no rush to get it on its feet.
I don't disagree I just think the ref already counting to three probably should register to them somehow.
10/30/2018 02:48 AMPosted by Enekie
WoW isn't dying, but it has been knocked flat on its butt, and the developers are in no rush to get it on its feet.


Okay, but this is the second month of the expansion. We're not getting new expansion features from here on out, just new instanced content. For the next year and a half at minimum we will be dealing with azerite, the faction war story, islands, and warfronts. Mythic plus can't be tuned down without just moving the problem up a couple key levels. If you think the burnout is bad now imagine what's going to be left after 3 more months of this. Six? Twelve? There are secondary effects as well. Further population loss makes the game feel dead and slows down pugs and the group finder which causes more people to leave the system. There's no way out from under this and I would definitely call that dying.
10/30/2018 02:54 AMPosted by Rairdar
If you think the burnout is bad now imagine what's going to be left after 3 more months of this. Six? Twelve? There are secondary effects as well.
I honestly thought I could endure if I just put my head down and farmed out the expansion, but I've literally mined out the value of the Blizzard Balance to the degree where I'm not even getting fun from the "meta" game anymore.

I'm even all capped out on Overwatch skins at this point (thank you, loot boxes).

I really tried to endure this expansion which is why tonight I tried to really give the content another go, hoping maybe I could find something I could use as a way to grow some fun, but I feel like Maara trying to get at the Buddha right now... just a crow pecking at a rock until I get frustrated and peace out, with my lute in tow, to find mischief and fun elsewhere...

...not going to get anything out of this one probably ever again.
From the players' perspective, the only thing that can salvage this expansion is old content. From the devs' perspective, they'd better make sure we continue to have access to that old content, because that's the only thing keeping a lot of us playing.
10/30/2018 02:54 AMPosted by Rairdar
Further population loss makes the game feel dead and slows down pugs and the group finder which causes more people to leave the system. There's no way out from under this and I would definitely call that dying.
"Wow has been "ruined" according to people unhappy with one or two aspects of the game since its inception. Since it began, it's been ruined by...

rooftop camping
the removal of rooftop camping
the lack of honor
the implementation of honor
the lack of dishonor
the implementation of dishonor
the removal of dishonor
the removal of wall walking
rank rewards
decaying rank
the removal of rank decay
the removal of PVP titles
Ahn'Qiraj
Scourge Invasion
Zul'Gurub
the cost of mounts
the lack of information about TBC
all information released about TBC
playable Blood Elves
playable Draenei
Horde Paladins
Alliance Shamans
flying mounts
the timing of the release of TBC
the cost of flight
Jewelcrafting
the LFG channel
holding people accountable to the Terms of Use
meeting stones
arenas
the number of arena teams one player can have
arena-based gear rewards
the lack of battlegrounds
the addition of battlegrounds
everything about battlegrounds
Illidan being killable
Daily quests
instance-based reputations
the Darkmoon Faire
/pizza
playable wisps
the Armory
Warden
the lack of information about Wrath
all information about Wrath
a failure to revamp old world areas
the inability to transfer from PVE to PVP servers
hero classes
siege engines
cold weather flying
Wintergrasp being a PVP zone
death knights
the inability to start a new character of any class at 55 or higher
the lack of a dance studio
character recustomization
the inability to change race or faction
the cost of mammoths and motorcycles
the fall damage negation of mammoths and motorcycles
the removal of fall damage negation from mammoths and motorcycles
the ability to transfer from PVE to PVP servers
dual specs
Achievements
holiday events
Mountain Dew Game Fuel
streaming Blizzcon ’09 on pay per view
the revamping of Onyxia’s Lair
Worgen for the Alliance
Goblins for the Horde
revamped old world areas
the ability to change faction
the ability to change race
new race/class combinations
purchasable vanity pets
garrisons
level 90 boost
level 100 boost
Killing Varian
no flight
flying
Pathfinder achievement
Killing Tirion
Allied Races
7.3.5 server changes
Anniversary event
anniversary statue as well as weekly maintenance and patches 1.1 through the current one inclusive.

--Credit to Palehoof for this lists creation.

TLDR; The game isn't dying any more than it was killed off by any of the 87 listed changes above.
10/30/2018 03:14 AMPosted by Crowlay
TLDR; The game isn't dying any more than it was killed off by any of the 87 listed changes above.
I don't know if having an "unkillable" mindset makes for good game design decisions.

Skillful decision making is often wrought with concern for the outcome.
10/30/2018 03:22 AMPosted by Nagelring
10/30/2018 03:14 AMPosted by Crowlay
TLDR; The game isn't dying any more than it was killed off by any of the 87 listed changes above.
I don't know if having an "unkillable" mindset makes for good game design decisions.

Skillful decision making is often wrought with concern for the outcome.
There is a difference between concern for the outcome and living in fear that any and every choice you make will be met with hostility. The game isn't "unkillable". It's just not any more likely to die today, next week, next month, next year than it was at any point in the last 14 years. Too many worldwide players, too much worldwide interest, too much financial backing from one of the largest publishers on the planet, and too little in terms of legitimate problems.

If you don't believe me there is a small event next weekend that might change your mind.
https://blizzcon.com/en-us/
10/30/2018 03:30 AMPosted by Crowlay
It's just not any more likely to die today, next week, next month, next year than it was at any point in the last 14 years.
Technically, death becomes more likely for all things over time.
10/30/2018 03:30 AMPosted by Crowlay
If you don't believe me there is a small event next weekend that might change your mind.
Yeah, I know, I noted in my OP that I won't even be bothering to watch Blizzcon, and I tried to give away a virtual ticket to no avail.
10/30/2018 03:30 AMPosted by Crowlay
It's just not any more likely to die today, next week, next month, next year than it was at any point in the last 14 years.
Technically, death becomes more likely for all things over time.
Bold words for an undead warlock.
10/30/2018 02:54 AMPosted by Rairdar
Okay, but this is the second month of the expansion. We're not getting new expansion features from here on out, just new instanced content. For the next year and a half at minimum we will be dealing with azerite, the faction war story, islands, and warfronts. Mythic plus can't be tuned down without just moving the problem up a couple key levels. If you think the burnout is bad now imagine what's going to be left after 3 more months of this. Six? Twelve? There are secondary effects as well. Further population loss makes the game feel dead and slows down pugs and the group finder which causes more people to leave the system. There's no way out from under this and I would definitely call that dying.


Fine. We're stuck with this expansion's content methodology for the next year and a half.

Solution?

Make our characters fun to play again. Class design. That's the key. All of the things we're doing - and not having fun with - would be a lot more fun if our characters were actually fun to play again.

They went too far with the pruning. Three expansions in a row of pruning was overkill x 3.
Combat slowness and story are the 3 biggest negatives. Combat, scrap what they have now and bring back legions system then build up from there. Story might be tougher to fix they always botch it.
IDK how they thought this was a good direction to take this game, but they were horribly wrong, and it has cost them.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum