Locking quests behind Rep grind is lazy

General Discussion
11/01/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Bastinelli
11/01/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Vaeana
So you're saying that if you could do everything all at once and blow right through all the current content, you wouldn't come on to the forums to cry about there being nothing to do?

Because this is the situation Blizzard (and any MMO runner) has to deal with.


They can rep grind whatever they want that's optional. Like I said, flying, allied races etc. I don't care. Don't halt my progress when I'm half way through the story. What benefit would I get by completing it?

When you halt the story midway, do you really care to come back and finish?


So that's a no then. Got it.
Isn't Blizzard adding big chunks of rep to the War Campaign quests in 8.1 to address this very issue?

11/01/2018 08:30 AMPosted by Kwashiorkor
Also do you remember most tedious and time consuming rep grind we had to endure to unlock the Blood elf and Draenie? It was so brutal it scarred me for life. I'm glad they're *never* doing something like that again.


I remember having to do both Nelf campaigns in WC3 and having to get to exalted with Darnassus to unlock Night Elves. Now that was brutal.
11/01/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Zipzø
Obviously I’m talking about the context within the game, under a logical determination of what it means to progress.

Life is also optional.


But we can't just shift the word "optional" around to mean different things and expect to have any kind of reasonable discussion. The way you're using the term is very relative.

There were parts of Argent Tournament that were required to progress within the tournament. To your definition of optional - no, it wasn't optional. It was optional in regard to running Icecrown.
11/01/2018 08:32 AMPosted by Æschere
Isn't Blizzard adding big chunks of rep to the War Campaign quests in 8.1 to address this very issue?


They might be but the OP is still going to run into the same issue of having the "You need to be X with Honorbound before you can continue"
I like the rep gated progression. The rep grinds are pretty much always mundane, whether it was Netherwing or the China dragon people. I think the only exception for me were the Wrath factions you could wear a tabard for. With that you just went about your business and collected rep.

But it gives me something to look forward to and a reason to keep going. BFA feels content lite as is and if I could plow through everything in a weekend I would have stopped playing much earlier than I did.
Rep gating/grinding has been around since Vanilla, it's a major part of WoW.
Heroics were locked behind rep in BC. Had to have a key you could only buy at a certain rep (don't remember now hat it was) but there were no rep dailies. You did dungeons and raids for turn in items.
Actually questing with rep gates makes sense. Progressively get more quests when you prove your worth. The locking races behind random reps, or flying behind reps is what is stupid...
11/01/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Izuul
Actually questing with rep gates makes sense. Progressively get more quests when you prove your worth. The locking races behind random reps, or flying behind reps is what is stupid...


Restricting content behind rep grinds is stupid period. It's boring and tedious. No one with a life enjoys doing it. This might have been fun when we were kids back in 04 05 but most of us are adults now, the game needs to evolve.

I have maybe 2 hours a night to play, you think I'm going to grind rep or do my millionth world quest? Hard pass.
11/01/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Izuul
Actually questing with rep gates makes sense. Progressively get more quests when you prove your worth. The locking races behind random reps, or flying behind reps is what is stupid...


There is one awesome example of it that everyone loved- the 5.1 Landfall questlines on Horde and Alliance (Lion's Landing and Domination Point)

It felt really natural to gain rep and unlock more story quests. As you progressed through the story you also gained rep which unlocked more story and more rep and then once you had the badge it went really fast and you got a bunch of quests in a row and at the end you got a sweet mount.

Honestly the War Campaign could have followed that model a little more closely and people wouldn't be as annoyed by it.

In MoP, it felt natural. In BfA, it feels forced and arbitrary.
11/01/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Bastinelli
I get it Blizz, you need to milk whatever player base you have left by forcing them to stay in game.

You've not played WOW very long, have you, otherwise you'd know this is nothing new .. THERE'S BEEN REP. GATING SINCE VANILLA.

/thread
11/01/2018 08:00 AMPosted by Thagrium
11/01/2018 07:39 AMPosted by Sorelai
In Wrath, progression with the Argent Tournement quests was locked behind Reputation. This isn't new.

While true, the Argent Tournament was a supplemental event tied to the third raid tier of the expansion, and had no content directly tied to it beyond cosmetic rewards and catch-up gear. By contrast, the following is currently locked behind completion of the War Campaign:

- Pathfinder Part One
- Two Allied Races (per faction)
- The other faction's mythic-only dungeon
- All mission table champions


You also forgot:

- Flight Paths - you can't unlock some flight paths until you are at a certain point in the War Campaign (or even normal quest chains).
- Little Pets - they are not only locked behind a rep grind, they are also lock behind a separate currency grind.

While I understand the need to parse out gameplay and features, it truly has become absurdist the level at which they have gone. It makes me not want to level alts - which is very bad since that's a main component of my gameplay. I just don't see myself doing the grind I've done on this character on a dozen alts. Which leaves me... where?

(puts out a little tray of cookies for thought)
11/01/2018 08:20 AMPosted by Zipzø
11/01/2018 07:39 AMPosted by Sorelai
In Wrath, progression with the Argent Tournement quests was locked behind Reputation. This isn't new.
The argent tournament is a largely optional affair with fluff rewards. Terrible comparison.


Guess it depends on your perspective. I feel that raids are optional content with largely fluff rewards. Mounts, Pets and Toys don't need to be replaced every six months.

Though, I also have 89 exalted reputations and none of the ones in BfA were difficult or a grind to get.
11/01/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Bastinelli
I get it Blizz, you need to milk whatever player base you have left by forcing them to stay in game.


You mean do what they have been doing since at least BC? Quests, dungeons, items, mounts, etc. Have all been gated behind rep grinds. This isn't new in WoW and it sure as hell isn't new in MMO's.
11/01/2018 08:06 AMPosted by Sivil
11/01/2018 08:00 AMPosted by Zule
...

Yeah but its getting old and people are starting to get sick of it...


Are the ones getting sick of it the same ones who blow through content and then complain there is nothing to do because theyve finished it already?
i am doing bfa for 3 alts. I did not plow thru bfa but i am gated now
11/01/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Bastinelli
I get it Blizz, you need to milk whatever player base you have left by forcing them to stay in game.

You want to lock allied races behind rep grind? Fine.

You want to lock flying behind rep grind, timegrind. FINE.

What I'm not fine with is locking my War Campaign behind difficult rep grind. Just as I'm starting to roll, completing quests here and there I'm halted by my lack of rep requirement. You know what will happen next right? I just won't care anymore. I won't go grind rep to keep questing. I'll just go do something else more enjoyable with my time and trust me it's hard finding something worthwhile to do anymore in this game.

Stop slowing our progress behind bad mechanics.


actually you sound like the lazy one....do you get mad when you log in and your character has no 370 gear just randomly on them or in our mailbox? I bet you are....
I hate to tell you this, but even if you DID have your reps currently maxed out, you won't be able to complete the full story yet. They ALSO lock parts of the story behind future patches, and we haven't even seen 8.1 released yet.

It's almost like if you really like the Harry Potter movies. BUT when you go to see the final movie, they released it as a Part 1 AND Part 2.
OR when you're really enjoying a television series like Game of Thrones. BUT you have to wait until next week, or even next year to get a new episode.
11/01/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Oimâk
11/01/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Bastinelli
I get it Blizz, you need to milk whatever player base you have left by forcing them to stay in game.

You want to lock allied races behind rep grind? Fine.

You want to lock flying behind rep grind, timegrind. FINE.

What I'm not fine with is locking my War Campaign behind difficult rep grind. Just as I'm starting to roll, completing quests here and there I'm halted by my lack of rep requirement. You know what will happen next right? I just won't care anymore. I won't go grind rep to keep questing. I'll just go do something else more enjoyable with my time and trust me it's hard finding something worthwhile to do anymore in this game.

Stop slowing our progress behind bad mechanics.


actually you sound like the lazy one....do you get mad when you log in and your character has no 370 gear just randomly on them or in our mailbox? I bet you are....


I could care less about gear, this is my 4th lvl 120. I enjoy playing the game leveling more than I do grinding gear so when I can't complete the story it bothers me. I have zero desire to grind rep I just want to enjoy the aspects of the game that I want to play.
I actually think rep is a nice way to pace out questlines at max level /shrug

It feels less artificial than a pure time-based unlock schedule, and I can make an effort to grind all the WQ if I want to get it faster. But it prevents the whole "spam it all day 1 and get bored" thing.
To play a Zandalari troll you must,

Level 120 hero. Exalted with Zandalari Empire, Friendly with Voldunai and Talanji's Expedition (to unlock world quests), 7.5k honored with honorbound (in order to finish the war campaign quests) and the war campaign completed.

That's 67,500 total rep + completing the war campaign JUST to unlock a race???

And I thought the Nightborne rep grind was bad...

I could understand completing the Zandalari storyline to play them, get to know the race and their story and all that...But rep & time gated content that you have to repeat over and over?

Cash grab.

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