What does Blizzcon offer Horde players?

Story Forum
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11/05/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Kaylae
But hey, good news guys, on top of having like 90% of the top pve players, 70% of the arena ladder, and an overall higher population at 120, you also get a branching story with choices and such.
Every time an Alliance player randomly brings up entirely unrelated gameplay imbalances during Horde story complaints, a kitten cries.
11/05/2018 02:37 AMPosted by Kharinak
11/05/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Kaylae
But hey, good news guys, on top of having like 90% of the top pve players, 70% of the arena ladder, and an overall higher population at 120, you also get a branching story with choices and such.
Every time an Alliance player randomly brings up entirely unrelated gameplay imbalances during Horde story complaints, a kitten cries.


Well, it is important because I think it plays into the demoralization part of the problem. When one side gets all the narrative focus, and that side also happens to basically be the favored side when it comes to gameplay - both mechanically and with visual coolness - it's really demoralizing for the other side. While I think narrative focus would ideally be shared and satisfying to both sides, when you have to compromise the story of one side it shouldn't be to kick the faction that's already way down. But what do I know...hopefully the next horde focused cinematic looks really cool.
11/05/2018 02:37 AMPosted by Kharinak
11/05/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Kaylae
But hey, good news guys, on top of having like 90% of the top pve players, 70% of the arena ladder, and an overall higher population at 120, you also get a branching story with choices and such.
Every time an Alliance player randomly brings up entirely unrelated gameplay imbalances during Horde story complaints, a kitten cries.


Right. We are discussing the story - who cares about mounts in a story discussion?

I would trade a Horse mount for a coherent story that didn't diminish EVERY CHARACTER in my Faction.

Jaina and Genn are becoming more compassionate - while everyone in the Horde is acting out of character or worse, acting nonsensically hypocritical.

We have seen the Alliance story move like a solid page turning novel. The Horde story is a jumble of failures that only seems to bolster our own eventual defeat. (We literally spend every day in a place the Alliance is about to smash).

I don't expect Alliance fans to know or even care and I don't think the Horde fans deserve compassion. It is all just a video game story. But we are discussing the Story here - not gameplay.
11/05/2018 02:56 AMPosted by Kaylae
Well, it is important because I think it plays into the demoralization part of the problem.


It's so important it probably deserves its own thread.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769769129

Oh look, it has one.
11/05/2018 03:10 AMPosted by Cursewords
I don't expect Alliance fans to know or even care and I don't think the Horde fans deserve compassion. It is all just a video game story. But we are discussing the Story here - not gameplay.


this.

also, i think that i am glad to not have buyed a virtual ticket this year if blizzard loves to insult alliance players, but i also understand that blizzard intents to be funny, so it doesn't really bothers me. maybe people needs to chill out.. but to be honest i don't really care much about gameplay.
11/05/2018 03:10 AMPosted by Cursewords
<span class="truncated">...</span>Every time an Alliance player randomly brings up entirely unrelated gameplay imbalances during Horde story complaints, a kitten cries.


I don't expect Alliance fans to know or even care and I don't think the Horde fans deserve compassion. It is all just a video game story. But we are discussing the Story here - not gameplay.


R I C H
11/05/2018 03:10 AMPosted by Cursewords
11/05/2018 02:37 AMPosted by Kharinak
...Every time an Alliance player randomly brings up entirely unrelated gameplay imbalances during Horde story complaints, a kitten cries.


Right. We are discussing the story - who cares about mounts in a story discussion?

I would trade a Horse mount for a coherent story that didn't diminish EVERY CHARACTER in my Faction.

Jaina and Genn are becoming more compassionate - while everyone in the Horde is acting out of character or worse, acting nonsensically hypocritical.

We have seen the Alliance story move like a solid page turning novel. The Horde story is a jumble of failures that only seems to bolster our own eventual defeat. (We literally spend every day in a place the Alliance is about to smash).

I don't expect Alliance fans to know or even care and I don't think the Horde fans deserve compassion. It is all just a video game story. But we are discussing the Story here - not gameplay.


No it isn't. You can focus on me bringing up all the myriad gameplay imbalances if you like, but I brought up plenty of story issues as well. The OP literally raises gameplay issues, so you can put your fingers in your ears and go la la la if you like, but it's 100% on topic. She says that the story is impacting her enjoyment of the raid and it 100% impacts mine as an alliance player because I didn't get a story, and it's hard to find people to do content with because everyone's re-rolling horde.

I don't give 2 craps about dazar'alor. I have zero story introduction in bfa to who king rastakhan is, why I should care about taking him down, and why it's relevant at all to me. The point of the raid is to advance the horde story of talanji, and the alliance are once again cast as NPCs to move the horde's story along. That's why all the meta plots like saurfang and vol'jin's spirit are entirely horde quests. You're the protagonists of the story. Meanwhile, you're fighting 2 alliance racial leaders and successfully throwing the alliance out of your prospective ally's home, in fact gaining their allegiance in the process.

Jaina's story isn't at all interesting. It's literally her saying "Was I wrong after all?" followed by "Nope, I was right people shoulda listened, mom loves me again." All of this is told through minimal zone storylines followed up with a trip back through most of the dungeons you've probably already run to get "object 1/3" to go save Jaina from spirit realm (why wouldn't Ashvane just kill her? What?) I thought we were going somewhere interesting, but nope it looks like compassion and forgiveness again, just like MoP. Maybe we'll formally give darkshore and ashenvale to the horde after we forgive them at the end of BFA so we can complete the mop circle. What does Genn even do besides lose battles? It's like he learned nothing from Gilneas.

As an alliance player, every story beat in BFA has felt bad, and there's basically no way back from this. I'd been pretty unimpressed with legion's story, but it never actively inhibited my enjoyment of the game like BFA's does. I can forgive a bad story if gameplay is good, but when gameplay is bad and the story sucks, it's hard to get excited.
11/05/2018 08:56 AMPosted by Kaylae
No it isn't. You can focus on me bringing up all the myriad gameplay imbalances if you like, but I brought up plenty of story issues as well. The OP literally raises gameplay issues, so you can put your fingers in your ears and go la la la if you like, but it's 100% on topic. She says that the story is impacting her enjoyment of the raid and it 100% impacts mine as an alliance player because I didn't get a story, and it's hard to find people to do content with because everyone's re-rolling horde.

I don't give 2 craps about dazar'alor. I have zero story introduction in bfa to who king rastakhan is, why I should care about taking him down, and why it's relevant at all to me. The point of the raid is to advance the horde story of talanji, and the alliance are once again cast as NPCs to move the horde's story along. That's why all the meta plots like saurfang and vol'jin's spirit are entirely horde quests. You're the protagonists of the story. Meanwhile, you're fighting 2 alliance racial leaders and successfully throwing the alliance out of your prospective ally's home, in fact gaining their allegiance in the process.

Jaina's story isn't at all interesting. It's literally her saying "Was I wrong after all?" followed by "Nope, I was right people shoulda listened, mom loves me again." All of this is told through minimal zone storylines followed up with a trip back through most of the dungeons you've probably already run to get "object 1/3" to go save Jaina from spirit realm (why wouldn't Ashvane just kill her? What?) I thought we were going somewhere interesting, but nope it looks like compassion and forgiveness again, just like MoP. Maybe we'll formally give darkshore and ashenvale to the horde after we forgive them at the end of BFA so we can complete the mop circle. What does Genn even do besides lose battles? It's like he learned nothing from Gilneas.

As an alliance player, every story beat in BFA has felt bad, and there's basically no way back from this. I'd been pretty unimpressed with legion's story, but it never actively inhibited my enjoyment of the game like BFA's does. I can forgive a bad story if gameplay is good, but when gameplay is bad and the story sucks, it's hard to get excited.


You don't like the story you're getting. That's fair, and you have legitimate complaints. But you seem to think that this somehow obliges us to like the story we're getting.

You have legitimate complaints. So do we. Trying to delegitimize our complaints, or to bicker over who has it worse, will not fix your complaints.
11/05/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Balloonfish
11/05/2018 08:56 AMPosted by Kaylae
No it isn't. You can focus on me bringing up all the myriad gameplay imbalances if you like, but I brought up plenty of story issues as well. The OP literally raises gameplay issues, so you can put your fingers in your ears and go la la la if you like, but it's 100% on topic. She says that the story is impacting her enjoyment of the raid and it 100% impacts mine as an alliance player because I didn't get a story, and it's hard to find people to do content with because everyone's re-rolling horde.

I don't give 2 craps about dazar'alor. I have zero story introduction in bfa to who king rastakhan is, why I should care about taking him down, and why it's relevant at all to me. The point of the raid is to advance the horde story of talanji, and the alliance are once again cast as NPCs to move the horde's story along. That's why all the meta plots like saurfang and vol'jin's spirit are entirely horde quests. You're the protagonists of the story. Meanwhile, you're fighting 2 alliance racial leaders and successfully throwing the alliance out of your prospective ally's home, in fact gaining their allegiance in the process.

Jaina's story isn't at all interesting. It's literally her saying "Was I wrong after all?" followed by "Nope, I was right people shoulda listened, mom loves me again." All of this is told through minimal zone storylines followed up with a trip back through most of the dungeons you've probably already run to get "object 1/3" to go save Jaina from spirit realm (why wouldn't Ashvane just kill her? What?) I thought we were going somewhere interesting, but nope it looks like compassion and forgiveness again, just like MoP. Maybe we'll formally give darkshore and ashenvale to the horde after we forgive them at the end of BFA so we can complete the mop circle. What does Genn even do besides lose battles? It's like he learned nothing from Gilneas.

As an alliance player, every story beat in BFA has felt bad, and there's basically no way back from this. I'd been pretty unimpressed with legion's story, but it never actively inhibited my enjoyment of the game like BFA's does. I can forgive a bad story if gameplay is good, but when gameplay is bad and the story sucks, it's hard to get excited.


You don't like the story you're getting. That's fair, and you have legitimate complaints. But you seem to think that this somehow obliges us to like the story we're getting.

You have legitimate complaints. So do we. Trying to delegitimize our complaints, or to bicker over who has it worse, will not fix your complaints.


Did you not read the OP? It's "Why don't the horde get wins?" immediately after a bunch of back to back wins. Like really? She's also upset about some actual nuance in Saurfang's character, calling him an Alliance stooge and such. That's debatable, but you're gonna need more than just that assertion if you want a legit discussion. I'm not angrily responding to threads where the op is discussing horde story shortcomings in a reasonable manner.
11/05/2018 09:44 AMPosted by Kaylae
Did you not read the OP? It's "Why don't the horde get wins?" immediately after a bunch of back to back wins. Like really?


This is what I'm talking about. You're attempting to dictate to Horde players what sort of narrative we should appreciate.
It's one thing when a lot of people make similar complaints...

But I get a little suspect when the exact wording of other posts is used. Brigading the WoW forums evidently is a thing.
11/05/2018 11:04 AMPosted by Balloonfish
11/05/2018 09:44 AMPosted by Kaylae
Did you not read the OP? It's "Why don't the horde get wins?" immediately after a bunch of back to back wins. Like really?


This is what I'm talking about. You're attempting to dictate to Horde players what sort of narrative we should appreciate.


Or, maybe, giving you a sense of reality? Maybe you are just asking for too much.
Can I rejoin the Alliance please?
11/05/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Demontê
Or, maybe, giving you a sense of reality? Maybe you are just asking for too much.


The OP, who has established herself over many threads as not liking this expansion story, didn't find anything reassuring from Blizzcon. That's asking too much?
11/05/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Demontê
11/05/2018 11:04 AMPosted by Balloonfish
...

This is what I'm talking about. You're attempting to dictate to Horde players what sort of narrative we should appreciate.


Or, maybe, giving you a sense of reality? Maybe you are just asking for too much.


If many Horde players feel the Story is showcasing them as hypocritical villains - working towards bad ends and then admonishing ourselves... Hearing Alliance Players cry about Horses does not change that.

Blizzcon only reinforced that the Horde is going to be torn apart further. That our story has only just begun to sink.

So when the OP asks if there is anything for Horde players to enjoy from Blizzcon... Your *Alliance Poster* answers are basically "the Alliance is ignored - better to be mistreated than ignored."

I disagree. As do many.
11/05/2018 09:44 AMPosted by Kaylae
Did you not read the OP? It's "Why don't the horde get wins?" immediately after a bunch of back to back wins. Like really?

I'm pretty sure she meant wins in the sense of general positive things, not military actions per se. Besides, a lot of us Horde posters in the Story Forum saw the War of Thorns as a loss for what it did to our story, even if it was technically wins in the military sense (at least until the counteroffensive).
11/05/2018 11:49 AMPosted by Cursewords


So when the OP asks if there is anything for Horde players to enjoy from Blizzcon... Your *Alliance Poster* answers are basically "the Alliance is ignored - better to be mistreated than ignored."

I disagree. As do many.


This. Oh my god, this so much.

Stagnation is better than development in this expansion.
That feel when you get more hype for being able to play as a potted plant in a fighting game then the horde story and diablo announcement.
11/05/2018 08:56 AMPosted by Kaylae
The OP literally raises gameplay issues, so you can put your fingers in your ears and go la la la if you like, but it's 100% on topic. She says that the story is impacting her enjoyment of the raid and it 100% impacts mine as an alliance player because I didn't get a story, and it's hard to find people to do content with because everyone's re-rolling horde.


That's not a gameplay issue, that's a story issue. The raids have been fine - the best part of the game for some time now.

You're really reaching. We know what are gameplay issues and what are story issues. What good does it do to go on about gameplay issues here? If you are that concerned about them, you should post about them where it matters, not in the story forum.
11/03/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Roghter
I was actually out the door, trying different MMO's, calling the 6 month sub they'd gotten me to pay for a sunk cost and moving on. Even discovering that they had programmed a 'choice' into betraying the Warchief or not left me indifferent.

Then Lost Honor was just so bug !@#$ crazy that it got me back.


I got talked back in from unsubscribing by a friend.

But I'm not why we put up with it. Clearly Blizzard will never do anything different unless something happens.

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