I Really Want to Play Moonkin

Classic Discussion
11/09/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Moonblade
11/09/2018 05:07 PMPosted by Tarrash
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My question is... doesn't anyone see this as a problem?
Why have a spec in the game that just does not work?

Who would be against slightly buffing them with maybe one or two pieces of gear specifically addressing this problem?


boomkin is really best for solo/questing and leveling.

because they are not viable, but requires a lot more work and determination, and skill, on the players part, to be viable.

carrying, defeats the purpose of team work. even if exceptions are made along the way. that also does not mean that they can not work on gear for their boomie, but that being viable along the way- until they do. remember, this was back when off spec gear could be obtained and kept.

so this is just arguing over semantics, just for the sake of arguing.

It might be best for soloing and questing, but feral is much stronger and more efficient.
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boomkin is really best for solo/questing and leveling.

because they are not viable, but requires a lot more work and determination, and skill, on the players part, to be viable.

carrying, defeats the purpose of team work. even if exceptions are made along the way. that also does not mean that they can not work on gear for their boomie, but that being viable along the way- until they do. remember, this was back when off spec gear could be obtained and kept.

so this is just arguing over semantics, just for the sake of arguing.

It might be best for soloing and questing, but feral is much stronger and more efficient.


as i explained earlier, yes. that is true.

its just surprising to see someone come in here and be so hateful. when no one was doing/saying anything to deserve it.

every class, has their strengths and weaknesses. ALL classes do. getting offended because someone points out that druid does have a weakness, is asinine.

you would think that someone crapped in their yard or something.
Then you should playa moonkin. I'll want all the pocket healers I can find and it's much easier to socially pressure a moonkin into healing than it is a mage.
11/09/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Moonblade
every class, has their strengths and weaknesses. ALL classes do. getting offended because someone points out that druid does have a weakness, is asinine.


It's kinda ironic too because out of all the classes druids tend to have the least weaknesses in open world pvp and are easily the best flag carriers and AB point watchers in the game.
11/09/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Phiza
From everything I've seen it seems Moonkin are subpar and undesirables in Vanilla. I'm wondering how true that is, am I going to be shunned and never be able to find groups? Is it so bad that even in open minded guilds I'll bring detriment to my allies? Will every clothie despise me for needing their gear? These are the questions I need to answer before I commit to leveling one whenever Classic finally drops.

I never raided too much in Vanilla, so I'm wondering if raids are really that difficult that we must be optimized? Is it really just irredeemably bad or will I (hopefully) find a cool guild to accommodate my snowflakes. :P
Do it anyways. laugh as people scream at you and wonder why you do it.
11/09/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Mightylink
Moonkin's have a raid wide buff exclusive to that spec so I would imagine every raid would want at least one of them no matter what the dps. If everyone just played Warriors, Rogues and Priests then the raid composition would be really weak.
its group-wide, not raid-wide
so raids don't want oomkins
I've heard if you gear yourself in a certain way (lots of cloth gear, for example), you'll do just fine.
11/09/2018 03:47 PMPosted by Neokolzia
Boomkins just aren't viable unfortunately in Vanilla.
Many people have tried, you do you,


My question is... doesn't anyone see this as a problem?
Why have a spec in the game that just does not work?
...


I think the answer to this is by adding content to the game...

or by adjusting loot tables and items to give itemization to those specs.

I think in terms of the content and changes I would like to see added to WoW is not spec balancing but to optimize item drops.

That change alone I think will make Classic amazing.
11/09/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Hermywerm
Moonkin had significant mana problems. Probably the worst of any spec in the game; this does become manageable with higher gear as your mana pool naturally increases but early(pre naxx/aq) you are oom after about 40% boss health most of the time.

You can certainly find a guild as a moonkin just be mentally prepared to have poorly itemized pvp sets, and no gear given to you as there is little spell damage leather gear in the game at all.


Only an issue if you don't gear MP5 or spirit offset cloth. There are a few ways to attack the problem, but before AQ in PVE, cloth gear is the solution.

Not like you're getting hit any how, so it's not a problem to be down armor class.

This the same solution used by Elemental shaman, Holy paladin, and hybrid DPS melee that use leather with attack power over primary stat.
11/09/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Härländ
11/09/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Hermywerm
Moonkin had significant mana problems. Probably the worst of any spec in the game; this does become manageable with higher gear as your mana pool naturally increases but early(pre naxx/aq) you are oom after about 40% boss health most of the time.

You can certainly find a guild as a moonkin just be mentally prepared to have poorly itemized pvp sets, and no gear given to you as there is little spell damage leather gear in the game at all.


Only an issue if you don't gear MP5 or spirit offset cloth. There are a few ways to attack the problem, but before AQ in PVE, cloth gear is the solution.

Not like you're getting hit any how, so it's not a problem to be down armor class.

This the same solution used by Elemental shaman, Holy paladin, and hybrid DPS melee that use leather with attack power over primary stat.


It is a problem to get cloth though. Because you're taking off-set gear from mages and warlocks who do double your damage, if not more. Many guilds won't care about that but many others will. Just have to find the right one.
Apparently they're usable to a degree if a group's DPS is high enough for fights to not outlast their poor mana bars.
11/09/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Hermywerm
11/09/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Härländ
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Only an issue if you don't gear MP5 or spirit offset cloth. There are a few ways to attack the problem, but before AQ in PVE, cloth gear is the solution.

Not like you're getting hit any how, so it's not a problem to be down armor class.

This the same solution used by Elemental shaman, Holy paladin, and hybrid DPS melee that use leather with attack power over primary stat.


It is a problem to get cloth though. Because you're taking off-set gear from mages and warlocks who do double your damage, if not more. Many guilds won't care about that but many others will. Just have to find the right one.


One boomkin is not such a big deal that he's going to starve for gear. It's prudent to gear one be because of you have an even class distribution to avoid problems with tier loot so that you can maximize raid drop potential, then it makes no sense to have more than 5 magesmages of any other class. With that said you also don't need 15 healers (using vanilla thinking on classes), so in practice you have room for a boomy, and they are useful even if they don't bring the samesame DPS because innervate is damn good, and in Vanilla super awesome to keep your healers running, and boomkin aura is fantastic for mages, paladin and shaman.
Let me reiterate what others have said and add my own twist to it...

Originally, I wanted Blizz to do some class tweaking so that every "spec" from each class was viable in raids...

I've changed my mind. I want them left as they were in 1.12. The more I think about it.

As others have said... Find a guild that will let you have the role you want, and then put all you can into learning how to do it the best that you can. Everyone has a different floor and ceiling, but there is gear you can get, macros and timers you can get, and other things to help make you more valuable.

Don't be afraid to throw out heals and remove status ailments when asked to.

Remember that Leather specialization was not a thing in Vanilla (if I remember correctly), so you aren't completely penalized for wearing cloth armor.

Most of all, just have fun and don't let some elitist tell you what you can and can't do. :)
11/09/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Mightylink
Moonkin's have a raid wide buff exclusive to that spec so I would imagine every raid would want at least one of them no matter what the dps. If everyone just played Warriors, Rogues and Priests then the raid composition would be really weak.


False.
11/09/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Härländ
One boomkin is not such a big deal that he's going to starve for gear. It's prudent to gear one be because of you have an even class distribution to avoid problems with tier loot so that you can maximize raid drop potential, then it makes no sense to have more than 5 magesmages of any other class. With that said you also don't need 15 healers (using vanilla thinking on classes), so in practice you have room for a boomy, and they are useful even if they don't bring the samesame DPS because innervate is damn good, and in Vanilla super awesome to keep your healers running, and boomkin aura is fantastic for mages, paladin and shaman.


Hey. Thanks for the reply. Much of what you said can be brought via resto druids as well (innervate/brez. etc) as they do not need to innervate themselves due to the incredibly efficient nature of HT rank4(IIRC). The only unique thing a moonkin brings is 3% crit for spellcasters, as you rightfully mentioned, but having this active does not require the moonkin to be fed gear. The moonkin only needs to stay alive which can be done with quite poor gear for most encounters pre AQ40.

I'm sure there are guilds out there that will gear a moonkin without a second thought but it is certainly not a requirement to benefit from their unique aura.. which is of debatable usefulness.
11/09/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Hermywerm
11/09/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Härländ
One boomkin is not such a big deal that he's going to starve for gear. It's prudent to gear one be because of you have an even class distribution to avoid problems with tier loot so that you can maximize raid drop potential, then it makes no sense to have more than 5 magesmages of any other class. With that said you also don't need 15 healers (using vanilla thinking on classes), so in practice you have room for a boomy, and they are useful even if they don't bring the samesame DPS because innervate is damn good, and in Vanilla super awesome to keep your healers running, and boomkin aura is fantastic for mages, paladin and shaman.


Hey. Thanks for the reply. Much of what you said can be brought via resto druids as well (innervate/brez. etc) as they do not need to innervate themselves due to the incredibly efficient nature of HT rank4(IIRC). The only unique thing a moonkin brings is 3% crit for spellcasters, as you rightfully mentioned, but having this active does not require the moonkin to be fed gear. The moonkin only needs to stay alive which can be done with quite poor gear for most encounters pre AQ40.


True, but there's enough gear to go around. The only time I do see it being a problem ironically is not in a progression guild, but in a disorganized guild who has a tough time filling raid slots.

Sounds funky I know, but players in guilds that are not doing so well tend to have loot drama. That's where it would get nasty for the boom because the pure DPS players are not looking at the full contribution, but only the DPS values.

That's the trouble with the hybrids, their buffs and non DPS contributions dont tend do show up on meters.
I remember maining a raiding moonkin in vanilla. I was mostly in non-class specific cloth epics for the +spell damage (ya gotta save up all those DKP points. I had a spreadsheet and everything for what gear to get from where and priority weighting, etc. This was so long ago, though...). It was an odd look while outside of moonkin form, but no worries. I also had a full set of fire resist gear and a "leftover" set of healer tier epics for when all the other druids had the drop already. There were a couple places I was asked to heal where we would take a lot of fatalities usually (lava packs in molten core, mostly), but generally I was DPS'ing (or if something very bad happened, battle rez had already been used, and a bunch of healers dropped, then I'd jump into healing for a little bit). If I recall I was on improved Mark of the Wild duty for the guild as well, so I took those talent points so the healing druids could focus elsewhere.

The cute /dance made it all work, I had consumables, I had my aqual quintessence, I was social on Ventrillo, and mages and warlocks would fight over the spots to group with me for the crit buff (there was a caster arms-race going on, so I was very much wanted to help them with that arms-race). During some periods I would downrank spells to bring mana back up, but generally it wasn't a problem. It was definitely a raiding guild, but we only got as far as Molten Core and Onyxia usually (if we finished up in good time, we started to touch BWL, but we usually didn't get that far since it took so long to gear folks). Two raid nights each week (or more if we had a bad night of wipes) took quite a tole physically and emotionally (these were very long events, with a lot of organizing and prep-work). Some bad drama split the guild and caused a half-baked merger and things didn't go so well at one point. Still, I got to raid MC and Onyxia as a moonkin for a good part of a year or so, so it's definitely doable. You do it, though, because it's something you love, and you can bring humor, baked goods, and a lot of dedication. If you take the same "juice" and apply it to, say, a frost mage, then you'll get "better" results DPS wise, but if raiding as a moonkin in vanilla is what intrigues you, then go for it. Totally doable from my experience and memory.
11/09/2018 07:32 PMPosted by Härländ
11/09/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Hermywerm
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Hey. Thanks for the reply. Much of what you said can be brought via resto druids as well (innervate/brez. etc) as they do not need to innervate themselves due to the incredibly efficient nature of HT rank4(IIRC). The only unique thing a moonkin brings is 3% crit for spellcasters, as you rightfully mentioned, but having this active does not require the moonkin to be fed gear. The moonkin only needs to stay alive which can be done with quite poor gear for most encounters pre AQ40.


True, but there's enough gear to go around. The only time I do see it being a problem ironically is not in a progression guild, but in a disorganized guild who has a tough time filling raid slots.

Sounds funky I know, but players in guilds that are not doing so well tend to have loot drama. That's where it would get nasty for the boom because the pure DPS players are not looking at the full contribution, but only the DPS values.

That's the trouble with the hybrids, their buffs and non DPS contributions dont tend do show up on meters.


I certainly agree that you should be rewarded for attendance and more outside of raw DPS. I'd happily give any spec their gear if they were a reliable player. Many guilds will give every cloth item to the top 2 mages and be equally correct; different guilds are looking for different things and OP should find a off-meta friendly environment.
You won't get into 5 mans unless healing or tanking. You will be harassed in PVP and will have to join one of the worst guilds on the server if you want to raid. Not many people want to waste a raid slot on someone that wants to play owl dress up and do nothing all raid.
I'm optimistic for you OP.

I hope you'll be able to turn yourself into an awesome Boomkin. Some mage class leader is probably gonna really want you so he can stack a mage party.

40 man raiding has lots of spots to fill. If you want to maintain a good attitude and work with the demands of the different boss fights you'll probably be able to get what you want.

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