We should calm down about the ENH changes

Shaman
I think we should all agree it's good blizz is taking a look at our spec and we should probably wait to see how the changes play before we start attacking them too critically.

Remeber these are the first iteration and what hits live is probably going to be different but on top of that no amount of theory crafting is going to change how something feels once they're in players hands.

I'm far from a blizzard shill, but for real this is one of those "lets wait and see" moments.
Eff that. We waited long enough and deserve to get more than a simple hotfix. None of our concerns that we've been pointing out since beta were even addressed.
I think the tuning is a good change, but let’s emphasize the fact that this is merely “tuning” change.
I’d like to see an overhaul where the talent tree really gets shaken up.
Perhaps even making some things baseline like Feral Lunge and giving us a Stone Bulwark totem or something in its place.
Overall I think it was good to see the cookie cutter build get broken in favour of bringing up weak talents, but the underlying issue is that all the talent options feel mundane and flat.
It really doesn’t help with the fact that we feel like we’re suffering and paying for the “hybrid tax” where our talent tree feels really bogged down by trying to make space for utility options as well as trying to satisfy our fantasy of having powerful options.
11/09/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Astrae
Eff that. We waited long enough and deserve to get more than a simple hotfix. None of our concerns that we've been pointing out since beta were even addressed.


What concerns do you have? Legit interested in what people have to say here. Without the salt though.
11/09/2018 10:32 PMPosted by Alyuzandro
I think the tuning is a good change, but let’s emphasize the fact that this is merely “tuning” change.
I’d like to see an overhaul where the talent tree really gets shaken up.
Perhaps even making some things baseline like Feral Lunge and giving us a Stone Bulwark totem or something in its place.
Overall I think it was good to see the cookie cutter build get broken in favour of bringing up weak talents, but the underlying issue is that all the talent options feel mundane and flat.
It really doesn’t help with the fact that we feel like we’re suffering and paying for the “hybrid tax” where our talent tree feels really bogged down by trying to make space for utility options as well as trying to satisfy our fantasy of having powerful options.


I think you have some good points honestly. Feral Lunge should most defiantly be baseline. I don't really understand the hybrid tax thing though. Our off healing is a legitimate thing in both pve and pvp(though the nerf in pvp makes it feel pretty weak there compared to where it was). To think utility from our healing and other spells shouldn't play any roll in balancing is wrong imho.

Personally I like the idea of being able to contribute more to a group then just damage. Tremor totem and earth elemental along with purge are all pretty big deals situationally. Just kinda with the player base at large would understand how the contribute to a groups success. Can't tell you how many times an earth ele has saved me from a wipe in a keystone saving us some valuable time. I've have my off heals come in clutch when a healer is falling behind. Moments like those are highlights of the class and have made me feel more valuable then pushing big damage ever does.
What? You mean we shouldn't spazz out over every little change that come across the ptr and totally go full dramarama without actually testing the changes or waiting to see what other changes are being made.

The nerve of this guy
First off, Kek totally has a blizzard name tag. or maybe your just star eyed and hopeful cause you been a shaman for 2 months and only run mythic +s so your not as invested as people who really love the class and put time and weather the storms and null spots.

I get it, its easy to be hopefully when this is your first go.

People asked for competitive raid buffs and we waited, we waited when we were told we wouldn't be ready at launch. We waited til 8.1 and the first thing tossed out is just a bad roll out. Changes to our talents should have been rolled out after something was done about our lack of raid competitiveness. BUT instead blizzard told us we were fine. It was our fault we preform bad and that no one wants to take us. Then they roll this out. Your gonna get people ticked off and frustrated.

I understand people want a complex rotation but we cant have all classes just shells of each other but cosmetically different. You have burst windows and pooling resources, sustained dps styles and then proc based rotation that enh have that is hard to do. Feels easy but its not, not forgiving to miss those procs, if your spamming not watching your global cds. Im bad at it lately. lol
11/10/2018 09:34 AMPosted by Hoodwinks
First off, Kek totally has a blizzard name tag. or maybe your just star eyed and hopeful cause you been a shaman for 2 months and only run mythic +s so your not as invested as people who really love the class and put time and weather the storms and null spots.


The best way to get your point across is to insult the person you're conversing with or make wild assumptions.
11/10/2018 05:18 AMPosted by Madalynn
What? You mean we shouldn't spazz out over every little change that come across the ptr and totally go full dramarama without actually testing the changes or waiting to see what other changes are being made.

The nerve of this guy


Ehh, not much with this community but sometimes logic and reason prevail.
Sadly, the wait and see approach doesn't work with blizzard. Everytime that kind of things happen "It's alpha, give it time", "It's beta give it time", "it just launched give it time", "It's just 8.1, give it time". It's an infinite cycle that happens as long as you let blizzard do.

I am honestly fed up with it. I did cancel a few hours ago when I saw the post. I'm already logging in only to raid so !@#$ it really. Azerite armor, reputation rep grinds for new races, class design is really at a low... Maybe that will send a message.
The spec is gutted in pvp. Yes the triple storm strike talents couldn't last but we got NOTHING in compensation. We have terrible damage and healing in 8.1. But hey, wind shear is good... kind of?
You will probably see a little more viability in talent choice, landslide and boulderfist might even be better then LS and FFW for single target but not a lot of fights this tier are single target fights your probably gonna run the same talents as now for mythic pluses and aoe fights in raids. So again I really think this handles none of our issues. Its lazy. You can be a fan boy all you want with your 2week shaman, Im sure you'll jump to a new class soon anyways Kek.
11/09/2018 10:07 PMPosted by Kekunbound
I think we should all agree it's good blizz is taking a look at our spec and we should probably wait to see how the changes play before we start attacking them too critically.

Remeber these are the first iteration and what hits live is probably going to be different but on top of that no amount of theory crafting is going to change how something feels once they're in players hands.

I'm far from a blizzard shill, but for real this is one of those "lets wait and see" moments.


How long exactly do you want to keep waiting? I'm no enh main, I'm the sad old ele shaman people pity. We hoped for a rework, since ele is lackluster in so many areas, we waited till 8.1 since blizzard ADMITTED the spec (as well as enh mind you) didnt get the attention and love others did before bfa. We waited for blizzard to respond to questions in q&a's and all we got was "learn to play" more or less.

Four whole months have passed since BFA launched, even longer if you count the feedback blizzard got in alpha/beta that our specs are under performing, and these changes are acceptable to you? There must be a point in which a line is drawn, that "waiting" is no longer acceptable and we passed that point long ago.

If you can't understand the frustration, then don't bother trying to douse the flames with "just wait". The only one who will get burnt... is you.
No wonder Shaman's get the shaft when the community rips on someone who is trying to be the voice of reason.

If i was a Dev after reading this thread i would nerf the Shaman into the damn ground and leave it for dead ( LOL not really ). You guys need to calm down and not be jerks to posters plain and simple. Also i am not saying they should nerf them into ground just saying when you come and read this BS it could make them go -- screw the shaman we will get around to them when we can.
11/10/2018 02:39 PMPosted by Kalarm
Sadly, the wait and see approach doesn't work with blizzard. Everytime that kind of things happen "It's alpha, give it time", "It's beta give it time", "it just launched give it time", "It's just 8.1, give it time". It's an infinite cycle that happens as long as you let blizzard do.

I am honestly fed up with it. I did cancel a few hours ago when I saw the post. I'm already logging in only to raid so !@#$ it really. Azerite armor, reputation rep grinds for new races, class design is really at a low... Maybe that will send a message.


It has been 14 years of this with shaman, and the only things people can point at is the introduction of DW, and the introduction of maelstrom. Other than that, it's been a slow evolution to what it is now. Anyone that believes this company is going to do anything decent for this class is delusional, and stupid (including myself for thinking they would do something smart to take care of us in 8.1).
11/10/2018 05:18 AMPosted by Madalynn
What? You mean we shouldn't spazz out over every little change that come across the ptr and totally go full dramarama without actually testing the changes or waiting to see what other changes are being made.


"Don't worry guys it'll be fixed, it's just beta."

"Don't worry guys it'll be fixed, it's just pre-patch."

"Don't worry guys, it'll be fixed, they said so for 8.1."

"Don't worry guys, it's just 8.1 PTR, they'll give us more stop complaining."

"Don't worry guys, we'll get attention during 9.0, just you wait!!"

You people are like abuse victims coming back, thinking that Blizzard will change. I've just moved on from my Shaman since I'm 99% sure they have no real idea of what makes the core kit not fun (hint hint it was the full rework in Legion).
ya I def didnt like the legion rework as much as others T.T Even WoD was more fun :(
How many years have we had to "wait and see" only to be disappointed over and over? Removal of static cling now in pvp... I mean really?!?
11/09/2018 10:07 PMPosted by Kekunbound
I think we should all agree it's good blizz is taking a look at our spec and we should probably wait to see how the changes play before we start attacking them too critically.

Remeber these are the first iteration and what hits live is probably going to be different but on top of that no amount of theory crafting is going to change how something feels once they're in players hands.

I'm far from a blizzard shill, but for real this is one of those "lets wait and see" moments.


It's only Alpha, just wait...
It's Beta, the changes are still coming...
It's PTR, relax. it'll get fixed...
well, don't worry, 8.1 will see us sorted..

hmmm
11/11/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Drunkgnarble
11/09/2018 10:07 PMPosted by Kekunbound
I think we should all agree it's good blizz is taking a look at our spec and we should probably wait to see how the changes play before we start attacking them too critically.

Remeber these are the first iteration and what hits live is probably going to be different but on top of that no amount of theory crafting is going to change how something feels once they're in players hands.

I'm far from a blizzard shill, but for real this is one of those "lets wait and see" moments.


It's only Alpha, just wait...
It's Beta, the changes are still coming...
It's PTR, relax. it'll get fixed...
well, don't worry, 8.1 will see us sorted..

hmmm


Actually everyone was on the enhance bandwagon in Alpha and beta and claiming how ele was horrible and we should all play enhance.

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