We should calm down about the ENH changes

Shaman
11/09/2018 10:07 PMPosted by Kekunbound
I think we should all agree it's good blizz is taking a look at our spec and we should probably wait to see how the changes play before we start attacking them too critically.

Remeber these are the first iteration and what hits live is probably going to be different but on top of that no amount of theory crafting is going to change how something feels once they're in players hands.

I'm far from a blizzard shill, but for real this is one of those "lets wait and see" moments.


No. They knew the problems since beta. They had more than 5 months to rework the class. There is no excuse this time. They deserve the backlash.
11/11/2018 01:22 AMPosted by Crimsonita
ya I def didnt like the legion rework as much as others T.T Even WoD was more fun :(


The legion rework was the best iteration enh shaman has ever gotten. We should be moving forward not back into WoD and worse.
11/12/2018 07:11 AMPosted by Kalgromash
The legion rework was the best iteration enh shaman has ever gotten


MoP was better

Cata was better

Wotlk everyone played Ele anyway so it didn't matter, but Enhance was still fun to play

Even WoD was better and that's setting the bar pretty low. In Legion, Enhance is literally pruned down to nothing

From a Class Design/PVPer POV, Enhance is awful compared to it's past iterations.

11/10/2018 04:08 PMPosted by Hùntakahn
If i was a Dev after reading this thread i would nerf the Shaman into the damn ground and leave it for dead


The last dev who did that didn't last very long, let's just say he took the bus ride home
Thank you guys for making a shadow priest feel at home in this thread. You could replace ‘shaman’ with ‘spriest’ and you’d find this exact thread in the priest forums
11/12/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Slimeseason
Thank you guys for making a shadow priest feel at home in this thread. You could replace ‘shaman’ with ‘spriest’ and you’d find this exact thread in the priest forums


That's because the devs just dont understand what is good for the specs, what is fun, and what is too OP. If something seems fun, but maybe too OP, they scrap it instead of try to get it working. They would rather have bland specs that mirror each other than put any real work into. The effort to make enh exactly like fury is very minimal (I don't want that, just pointing out the homogenization we live in now).

They are quick to nerf things, as well, but very slow to buff what needs it. When the do buff things, it tends to be a blanket/band aid buff, that doesn't fix the real problems, and they hide behind "class fantasy" while taking away so much of it. If we control the elements, and enh has frost damage as part of their mastery, why don't we actually use frost spells? We have one, with limited use in PvP when earthbind is on CD, and we have an azerite trait that uses it, unless you have a trait higher than half way up the list.

The problem seems to be that they don't want to take any suggestions from the community, because all we want is to be OP, not to help the game out. I play many classes, and I don't want to come up against one that just dominates me because I've suggested too much power. I would like to have the game balanced. The only way that seems to work for them is to remove things out of the ordinary, which takes away from class fantasy.
11/09/2018 10:40 PMPosted by Kekunbound
11/09/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Astrae
Eff that. We waited long enough and deserve to get more than a simple hotfix. None of our concerns that we've been pointing out since beta were even addressed.


What concerns do you have? Legit interested in what people have to say here. Without the salt though.


Baseline DoT so I can spec out of searing assault. I PvP almost exclusively so having a DoT is key for stealthies and forcing say a rogue to use cloak in order to vanish rather than just using vanish. I think Frostbrand would be perfect for this so it is incorporated into normal rotation.

Also AoE is a huge issue. Even with ride the lightning I would like say an AoE totem I can place down. One without having to target someone.

Some damage redistribution to Lava Lash baseline. As a spender its rather underwhelming and really to make maelstrom matter, it should be either #1 or #2 damage wise. I would actually care about maelstrom at that point. Currently I only care about it for off heals.

Those would be the things I would change.
I have ONE simple question -- Have any of you gone on the PTR and TRIED the changes ? not seen sims that say this or that but gone on the PTR and REALLY played it.

I have not but that's because i am only thinking of really lvling one again - have not played one since beginning to mid of legion. Some are saying these changes are just shifting numbers around and that might be true but do you really expect them to really remake a spec / class AFTER a xpac was launched.

Remember they screwed Demo lock into the ground in legion so much then they even came out in a Q and A i believe and Ion said Do not play it pretty much. If your expecting radical changes for a spec i would not hold your breath. Shifting numbers around and such is pretty much all they can do atm.
11/12/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Hùntakahn
I have ONE simple question -- Have any of you gone on the PTR and TRIED the changes ? not seen sims that say this or that but gone on the PTR and REALLY played it.

I have not but that's because i am only thinking of really lvling one again - have not played one since beginning to mid of legion. Some are saying these changes are just shifting numbers around and that might be true but do you really expect them to really remake a spec / class AFTER a xpac was launched.

Remember they screwed Demo lock into the ground in legion so much then they even came out in a Q and A i believe and Ion said Do not play it pretty much. If your expecting radical changes for a spec i would not hold your breath. Shifting numbers around and such is pretty much all they can do atm.


I dont think its hit PTR yet so that ability to actually play isnt there. And yes they can do more than shift numbers around. They did for ELE by removing talents and creating two brand new ones as well as adding things to existing talents outside of a numbers shift. The ELE changes are scheduled to be released in 8.1 and on PTR right now.
11/12/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Klowdywilde
11/12/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Slimeseason
Thank you guys for making a shadow priest feel at home in this thread. You could replace ‘shaman’ with ‘spriest’ and you’d find this exact thread in the priest forums


That's because the devs just dont understand what is good for the specs, what is fun, and what is too OP. If something seems fun, but maybe too OP, they scrap it instead of try to get it working. They would rather have bland specs that mirror each other than put any real work into. The effort to make enh exactly like fury is very minimal (I don't want that, just pointing out the homogenization we live in now).

They are quick to nerf things, as well, but very slow to buff what needs it. When the do buff things, it tends to be a blanket/band aid buff, that doesn't fix the real problems, and they hide behind "class fantasy" while taking away so much of it. If we control the elements, and enh has frost damage as part of their mastery, why don't we actually use frost spells? We have one, with limited use in PvP when earthbind is on CD, and we have an azerite trait that uses it, unless you have a trait higher than half way up the list.

The problem seems to be that they don't want to take any suggestions from the community, because all we want is to be OP, not to help the game out. I play many classes, and I don't want to come up against one that just dominates me because I've suggested too much power. I would like to have the game balanced. The only way that seems to work for them is to remove things out of the ordinary, which takes away from class fantasy.


I know what you mean. Surrender to Madness was an awesome talent in legion, and it was incredibly unique. You get to feel like a god for those 2-3 minutes you were in voidform, but with how broken haste scaling was for shadow it was a nightmare to balance it. It became pretty OP for most emerald nightmare fights, so it got nerfed into irrelevancy. Now it languishes in the final tier, as a dps loss compared to Legacy of the Void and Dark Ascension.

They took a fun talent and made it beyond worthless, and shadow priest won’t be the only martyr for this example
In legion they basically dumbed enhance shaman all the way down to just being a rng fury warrior. Which I know alot of people liked, I personally just hated it. We lost our idenity/utility in exchange for higher damage numbers which ofc were nerfed to !@#$ by the second raid tier.
11/12/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Hùntakahn
I have ONE simple question -- Have any of you gone on the PTR and TRIED the changes ? not seen sims that say this or that but gone on the PTR and REALLY played it.

I have not but that's because i am only thinking of really lvling one again - have not played one since beginning to mid of legion. Some are saying these changes are just shifting numbers around and that might be true but do you really expect them to really remake a spec / class AFTER a xpac was launched.

Remember they screwed Demo lock into the ground in legion so much then they even came out in a Q and A i believe and Ion said Do not play it pretty much. If your expecting radical changes for a spec i would not hold your breath. Shifting numbers around and such is pretty much all they can do atm.


Do I expect it if there are fundamental flaws with the spec? Hell yes. Pardon me for having standards.

Furthermore, it was during WoD that they made the demo statement.

Also you're a fool, to put it kindly, if you think all they're capable of doing in a patch cycle is shift numbers around. Well, you're not only a fool, but demonstrably wrong.

Go piss in someone else's sorrow wine.
11/12/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Romulisp
Go piss in someone else's sorrow wine.


More like sorrow WHINE Am I right? ....

But on the plus side the ele changes probably won't do much for ele.. so, you will still be the top shaman dps spec! Woo woo enh!

Sometimes.. being a shaman makes me sad....

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