It's been 73 Days

BFA Dungeons, Island Expeditions, and Raids
Since Uldir was released.

In that time:

1454x 20 man guilds WORLDWIDE have cleared heroic G'huun
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#metric=progress&difficulty=4&search=size.20.20&boss=2122&page=30

434x 15 man guilds WORLDWIDE have cleared heroic G'huun
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#metric=progress&difficulty=4&search=size.15.15&boss=2122&page=9

162x 12 man guilds WORLDWIDE have cleared heroic G'huun
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#metric=progress&difficulty=4&search=size.10.12&boss=2122&page=4

32x 10 man guilds WORLDWIDE have cleared heroic G'huun
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#metric=progress&difficulty=4&search=size.10.10&boss=2122&page=1

There is an obvious scaling issue going on here with smaller teams.
There definitely is an scaling issue on some bosses.

However, those numbers are also not a fair comparison, 20-man is the ONLY raid size for Mythic while for Heroic you have all the range from 10 to 40. Groups doing Heroic usually go for a larger size, typically the "smaller" groups aim for something like 2/3/9 which is 14 players, or 2/4/12 which is 18.

Anyway, as I said at the start, there are some bosses that are clearly designed for larger groups and if despite the fixes they are still overtuned then even more fixes are needed.

I know my guild had quite a difficult time when clearing Heroic Vectis the first (or second) week, we managed to do it anyway and since then I've seen some fixes on the patch notes aimed at that but haven't actually done it again with a small group.
I'm part of a 10-man raid group of friends and this scaling issue has made some serious damage to the group's motivation. Some bosses, like Mythrax, are just plain too painful for us without pugging a few more. And considering you don't have as much control and coordination with them, and they tend to leave after 1-2 wipes anyway (which is the standard nowadays), it often just made things worst.

In the end it just discouraged half of us from even finishing this content, where Legion had seen us beating the Heroic level of every raid. That half is now playing other games while we wait for the next two raids.

I tend to be patient and give a lot of chances to these things, but on this one I'm 100% sure this is not a good formula for raid balance. It just fails to keep you thrilled about your next raid night. The strange weaving of boss difficulties between Normal, Heroic and Mythic is already an indicator that something's off. By the time you're progressing on the last Normal bosses, you're on the same challenge level as, say, Heroic Zul or Vectis and Mythic Taloc. That means you more than often don't have anything to gain loot-wise on those few last Normal bosses. You're just there for the achieve... or !@#$ and giggles I guess. Not much to keep all your troops motivated on.

Barring that small power boost we give ourselves by killing the first Heroic boss, skilled groups should not have to progress halfway though Heroic to gain the required gear for any Normal bosses. Mythic is unquestionably for the competitive tier of players, but Normal... it should be a lot more accessible than that. It should give more room to mistakes and let you bring your gamer friends without having to drill them into the army first.

My two cents.
11/13/2018 06:59 AMPosted by Deyrdriss
I'm part of a 10-man raid group of friends and this scaling issue has made some serious damage to the group's motivation. Some bosses, like Mythrax, are just plain too painful for us without pugging a few more. And considering you don't have as much control and coordination with them, and they tend to leave after 1-2 wipes anyway (which is the standard nowadays), it often just made things worst.

In the end it just discouraged half of us from even finishing this content, where Legion had seen us beating the Heroic level of every raid. That half is now playing other games while we wait for the next two raids.

I tend to be patient and give a lot of chances to these things, but on this one I'm 100% sure this is not a good formula for raid balance. It just fails to keep you thrilled about your next raid night. The strange weaving of boss difficulties between Normal, Heroic and Mythic is already an indicator that something's off. By the time you're progressing on the last Normal bosses, you're on the same challenge level as, say, Heroic Zul or Vectis and Mythic Taloc. That means you more than often don't have anything to gain loot-wise on those few last Normal bosses. You're just there for the achieve... or !@#$ and giggles I guess. Not much to keep all your troops motivated on.

Barring that small power boost we give ourselves by killing the first Heroic boss, skilled groups should not have to progress halfway though Heroic to gain the required gear for any Normal bosses. Mythic is unquestionably for the competitive tier of players, but Normal... it should be a lot more accessible than that. It should give more room to mistakes and let you bring your gamer friends without having to drill them into the army first.

My two cents.


I agree with you.

I think theres more to do with the raid boss design than difficulty. well, it is the difficulty but in the current game, most of the bosses you need to cordinate some mechanics.
The second boss in lfr is still burning people nowadays.

From what I hoped, they should make lfr or normal difficulty much more of a dummy health sponge fight. Then increases the mechanics and difficulties on heroic and mythic which is pretty much what happened in Legion.
Even fewer have done 10H Zul.

I fear the new raid will be more of the same with all the split-group mechanics.

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