BGs are broken

Battlegrounds
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11/14/2018 08:43 AMPosted by Jugajr
You're 357. If I can do fine in BGs at 348, you can do so as well at 357...


I never said I don't do well.

I don't even agree with the OP.
I like the 2 min queue time the alliance has..if we start splitting the bgs into ilevel brackets that queue time will jump to 10 maybe 20 minutes... I don't have that sort of time spare to sit around waiting to play.

It just a pet hate of mine when people call others or insinuate others are lazy for only doing something they enjoy.. I really enjoy wow and its battle grounds, but video gaming is not high on my priority list of things I must do in life.. I jump on play.. if someone knocks at my door I turn it off... If someone calls me I turn it off....its a game.
11/14/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Justeria
It just a pet hate of mine when people call others or insinuate others are lazy for only doing something they enjoy..


I get that point. It's fair enough. But do you agree with:

11/14/2018 02:24 AMPosted by Zharja
If you disagree it means you have a high item level and you want to be over powered.


this type of stereotype? It's almost the same thing just from another pov...
11/14/2018 02:24 AMPosted by Zharja
If you have 360+ ilvl then you have a serious advantage. Casuals and hardcore raiders/pvpers are currently mixed and it sucks. If you disagree it means you have a high item level and you want to be over powered.

The reality is that not everyone is hardcore and has endgame gear yet.


I'm about as casual as it gets. I probably average 6-10 games a week (only play 2-3 days a week, after kid goes to sleep, for an hour, maybe 2 if I'm lucky). My ilevel is 351. I guess I probably do "want to be overpowered", but I can't see how my ilevel could be interpreted as "overpowered" given my very limited play time.
11/14/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Jugajr
11/14/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Justeria
It just a pet hate of mine when people call others or insinuate others are lazy for only doing something they enjoy..


I get that point. It's fair enough. But do you agree with:

11/14/2018 02:24 AMPosted by Zharja
If you disagree it means you have a high item level and you want to be over powered.


this type of stereotype? It's almost the same thing just from another pov...


No I don't agree with that statement its too black and white.
I don't doubt these players exist, you see it in world pvp all the time.. players won't engage unless they think they have an advantage.

But I think for the majority its is simply they have earnt that gear why shouldn't they get to use it and they should
11/14/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Utterly
I think any reasonable person understands logically, from actual experience, there is some disparity in gear power. How big is the disparity? I'm not sure we know. But let's look at what blizzard said on the issue:


"A player who is higher level than you and/or has a higher iLevel than you are going to have an advantage."

That's pretty darn clear.

I'm a bit conflicted in my opinion on the matter for max-level BGs. I know there is scaling to make things less difficult for fresh 120s/lower-ilvls, but I would still like to see a much faster catch-up gearing system for such folks (or alts) at this stage in the game. If my "main" is already receiving 370 ilvl rewards from grinding conquest, fresher casually-played 120s should at least be able to get to a 330-340 ilvl extremely quickly rather than have to plod toward 320 for a few weeks. After that fast catch-up, I would still expect each toon to have to do the same conquest grind for the 355 pieces before 370 ones though.
.

Oh thats so false if the devs even played the game . Like oh yeah fresh 120 monk at the time yeah such an advantage

https://imgur.com/a/q88sirI

https://imgur.com/a/4UcIvPH

When she started she was way below ilvl 300 and i was pulling 2 mil healing like its nothing,same with the 10 mil and outhealing my priest in an av . Tell me how as a fresh 120 horriable gear that im able to preform so well . I wasnt even a disc priest so i dont even want to hear the anti disc priest bias of you are an "op" healer !

Explain that and it was solo Q .
11/14/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Kitanana
11/14/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Utterly
I think any reasonable person understands logically, from actual experience, there is some disparity in gear power. How big is the disparity? I'm not sure we know. But let's look at what blizzard said on the issue:


"A player who is higher level than you and/or has a higher iLevel than you are going to have an advantage."

That's pretty darn clear.

I'm a bit conflicted in my opinion on the matter for max-level BGs. I know there is scaling to make things less difficult for fresh 120s/lower-ilvls, but I would still like to see a much faster catch-up gearing system for such folks (or alts) at this stage in the game. If my "main" is already receiving 370 ilvl rewards from grinding conquest, fresher casually-played 120s should at least be able to get to a 330-340 ilvl extremely quickly rather than have to plod toward 320 for a few weeks. After that fast catch-up, I would still expect each toon to have to do the same conquest grind for the 355 pieces before 370 ones though.
.

Oh thats so false if the devs even played the game . Like oh yeah fresh 120 monk at the time yeah such an advantage

https://imgur.com/a/q88sirI

https://imgur.com/a/4UcIvPH

When she started she was way below ilvl 300 and i was pulling 2 mil healing like its nothing,same with the 10 mil and outhealing my priest in an av . Tell me how as a fresh 120 horriable gear that im able to preform so well . I wasnt even a disc priest so i dont even want to hear the anti disc priest bias of you are an "op" healer !

Explain that and it was solo Q .


Revive and other monk things. Besides that ilvl doesn't matter as much for healers imo. What matters is how much damage your team is taking and how much the other team is locking you down.
11/14/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Meyka
11/14/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Kitanana
....

Oh thats so false if the devs even played the game . Like oh yeah fresh 120 monk at the time yeah such an advantage

https://imgur.com/a/q88sirI

https://imgur.com/a/4UcIvPH

When she started she was way below ilvl 300 and i was pulling 2 mil healing like its nothing,same with the 10 mil and outhealing my priest in an av . Tell me how as a fresh 120 horriable gear that im able to preform so well . I wasnt even a disc priest so i dont even want to hear the anti disc priest bias of you are an "op" healer !

Explain that and it was solo Q .


Revive and other monk things. Besides that ilvl doesn't matter as much for healers imo. What matters is how much damage your team is taking and how much the other team is locking you down.


See this is the thing "oh you heal so your evidence is invalid."
11/14/2018 06:25 AMPosted by Justeria
11/14/2018 05:28 AMPosted by Tavlina
Because the 330 players are too lazy or too stubborn to do any anything besides random BG's. At this point, if you are stuck at 330, it's on you.


yeap... laziness in a video game... I think people forget its a recreation activity and shouldn't needed to be treated like a job to keep up...

Work an 8 hour day... then come home cook dinner, clean catchup with friends, look after children / pets plus what ever your choice is to keep fit....

No some of us don't have time to be organised enough to play rated pvp.. but no they are the lasy ones... good laugh ;)


Oh god this argument is so old and irrelevant. Pisses me off. This is a MMO game. You know full well what it is about. You also know full well that to acquire gear you need to do actually play the game (shocker wow). Nobody cares about you, your activities and your family. If you actually want to play, you will find time to do it. You want recreation activity which require no effort? Go play Candy Crush. Just because you cannot manage your time does not mean you qualify for free handouts. Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you do dungeons/WQs/arenas for gear, that is your choice. But also accept the consequences of your choice.
11/14/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Tavlina
11/14/2018 06:25 AMPosted by Justeria
...

yeap... laziness in a video game... I think people forget its a recreation activity and shouldn't needed to be treated like a job to keep up...

Work an 8 hour day... then come home cook dinner, clean catchup with friends, look after children / pets plus what ever your choice is to keep fit....

No some of us don't have time to be organised enough to play rated pvp.. but no they are the lasy ones... good laugh ;)
My comment is not directed at people like this. I totally understand real life and it's priorities.

I'm specifically calling out players who are "too lazy and stubborn to do anything besides random BG's." They post all over these forums about how randoms are the only thing they want to do. Then complain because they are out geared by other players who put in more time and more effort.

So, why should my time and effort be diminished because someone else is lazy. Especially in this expansion where gear is so easily obtainable.


The philosophy is that your gear rewards are a reflection of the difficulty of your chosen content, with the flip side being that you don't need higher ilvl gear to do easier content. That's why LFR shouldn't drop Mythic gear - it's not hard, and you don't need it at that level.

Casual PVP drops the lower gear like LFR but then allows geared players in. Casual PVP is the one area in the game where players are punished for not doing content beyond what is fun for them. We have to face geared players in our chosen content but can't get sufficient gear to compete in that same content, the only area of the game where this is so.

If Blizzard is going to allow high geared players into casual bgs, then casual bgs either need to drop sufficient gear to compete or the gear advantage needs to be completely nullified. Simple as that.
11/14/2018 10:52 PMPosted by Iphonesux
Oh god this argument is so old and irrelevant. Pisses me off. This is a MMO game. You know full well what it is about. You also know full well that to acquire gear you need to do actually play the game (shocker wow). Nobody cares about you, your activities and your family. If you actually want to play, you will find time to do it. You want recreation activity which require no effort? Go play Candy Crush. Just because you cannot manage your time does not mean you qualify for free handouts. Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you do dungeons/WQs/arenas for gear, that is your choice. But also accept the consequences of your choice.


What arguement? The one that means i'm lazy because i'm not 370+?
I never asked for free gear, and I think you will find that if you inspect my gear I actually do what ever I can with my limited play time to get more because I KNOW bg rewards are crap.

I don't think you read or understood what I was saying, but thanks for your ignorant response. <3
Fight someone your same class/spec that has lower item level than you. Then tell me gear doesnt matter.

Some people wanted this, I was against it at the start. Because it makes the game a 2nd job if you want to be competitive. Worse for multispec or alts.
Literally backwards game progression.

Blizzard doesnt care.
They dont want to let you have vendors even if it causes them to lose subs.

If you arent among the top x % fotm rerollers then your opinion doesnt matter!
OP,

I like the idea of GBMM. I also suggested this, or a version of this in another thread. It seems like there could be a combination of GBMM/SBMM to balance out random BGs. Anyone who tells you they don’t start licking their lips when they see an 80k hp enemy is lying. It’s especially disadvantageous if said toon is the teams only healer.

Bungie did something very similar to this with Destiny PvP. Crucible(Destiny’s version of random BGs) was done using SBMM. Templates were used so that casuals could enjoy PvP without getting facerolled. For the more serious PvP’er, they had Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris(rated bg and arena, respectively), where gear absolutely matters.

We already have a ranking system in place for rated, it doesn’t seem that far fetched to implement something for randoms.

Completely off the cusp here, but they could start with:

1. Stacking premades against other premades
2. Bracketing off ilvls? 280-310? 311-350? 350+?
3. Matching high win % toons against other high win % toons. Ex: If you are averaging a 40% win rate on AB you get matched against a toon with a similar % as you.

These are all just whiteboard ideas. I generally view random BGs as casual PvP that anyone should be able to enjoy while putting minimal effort into the game. There is no sport in curb stomping these poor kids who aren’t even out of their blues. If you want to prove you are PvP god go rated.
11/15/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Arthurdayne
Bungie did something very similar to this with Destiny PvP. Crucible(Destiny’s version of random BGs) was done using SBMM. Templates were used so that casuals could enjoy PvP without getting facerolled. For the more serious PvP’er, they had Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris(rated bg and arena, respectively), where gear absolutely matters.


Templates for just randoms... I like this idea. If you want gear to matter, you go to rated.

11/15/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Arthurdayne
1. Stacking premades against other premades


This, I will say, already happens as someone who does premades and solo.

11/15/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Arthurdayne
2. Bracketing off ilvls? 280-310? 311-350? 350+?


Don't need this if there are templated randoms.
11/15/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Jugajr
11/15/2018 12:01 AMPosted by Arthurdayne
Bungie did something very similar to this with Destiny PvP. Crucible(Destiny’s version of random BGs) was done using SBMM. Templates were used so that casuals could enjoy PvP without getting facerolled. For the more serious PvP’er, they had Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris(rated bg and arena, respectively), where gear absolutely matters.


Templates for just randoms... I like this idea. If you want gear to matter, you go to rated.


Exactly. Glad we agree on something.
11/15/2018 12:04 AMPosted by Arthurdayne
...

Templates for just randoms... I like this idea. If you want gear to matter, you go to rated.


Exactly. Glad we agree on something.


I mean, you went 5-6 as Horde in the 40 mans. We agree on more than you think ;)
problem is gear matters but there is no easy quick way to achieve a minimal gear set to compete

also no easy way to get a competitive BIS pvp set, the conquest system gives tons of useless gear and doesn't allow us to focus the slots we really need, AND is substantially lower power level than mythic plus gear and raid gear.

I'd argue that gear mattered less when EVERYONE could get BIS pvp gear from conquest. Now BIS is available to only a few and everyone else has to endure a handicap.

The original wow team already had a nice system figured out with vendors and honor/conquest currencies. Templates cleared out the ladders and participation. Scaling without any fallback pvp gear system has been equally underwhelming, although not as bad as templates (which vacated any motivation to play for most people).
11/14/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Shurka
11/14/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Tavlina
...My comment is not directed at people like this. I totally understand real life and it's priorities.

I'm specifically calling out players who are "too lazy and stubborn to do anything besides random BG's." They post all over these forums about how randoms are the only thing they want to do. Then complain because they are out geared by other players who put in more time and more effort.

So, why should my time and effort be diminished because someone else is lazy. Especially in this expansion where gear is so easily obtainable.


The philosophy is that your gear rewards are a reflection of the difficulty of your chosen content, with the flip side being that you don't need higher ilvl gear to do easier content. That's why LFR shouldn't drop Mythic gear - it's not hard, and you don't need it at that level.

Casual PVP drops the lower gear like LFR but then allows geared players in. Casual PVP is the one area in the game where players are punished for not doing content beyond what is fun for them. We have to face geared players in our chosen content but can't get sufficient gear to compete in that same content, the only area of the game where this is so.

If Blizzard is going to allow high geared players into casual bgs, then casual bgs either need to drop sufficient gear to compete or the gear advantage needs to be completely nullified. Simple as that.


"then casual bgs either need to drop sufficient gear to compete or the gear advantage needs to be completely nullified. "


They already do max your conquest 355s the first cycle 2nd cycle is free 370s . Work or it .
11/14/2018 04:55 AMPosted by Inemia
this issue is caused by the fact that people would rather pwn noobs than have a fair game and they cried up a storm about templates
this literally had nothing to do with why everyone wanted templates gone.
11/15/2018 01:45 AMPosted by Awdawefaegf
11/14/2018 04:55 AMPosted by Inemia
this issue is caused by the fact that people would rather pwn noobs than have a fair game and they cried up a storm about templates
this literally had nothing to do with why everyone wanted templates gone.


Yes it did ,tho is was a small portion of why .It was mostly, i want my stats to matter moreee, i wanna pick my statsss instead we got this lel . They got what they wished for imo. Cant say kit told you so. But no one thinks longterm , they think bout something they want and demand for it asap . smh tsk tsk
11/14/2018 11:34 PMPosted by Srath
Some people wanted this, I was against it at the start. Because it makes the game a 2nd job if you want to be competitive.
Don't try to change fundamental elements of an mmorpg play a different genre if you don't have the time

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