Maiev dropping the mic on Wrynn

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Don't get me wrong, i'm glad Maiev and Tyrande are working together but i found it weird that she referred to Tyrande as Queen. My gurl Tyrande hates that title and they didn't exactly leave in the best of terms.
10/08/2018 03:18 PMPosted by Anyaceltica
if you kill your enemies they win

-Andruin Wrynn.
Yet another reason why Walking Dead went down the drain; they kept trying to push this BS pacifist garbage down our throats by sparing mass murderers and sadists.

10/08/2018 03:20 PMPosted by Nightpaws
Don't get me wrong, i'm glad Maiev and Tyrande are working together but i found it weird that she referred to Tyrande as Queen. My gurl Tyrande hates that title and they didn't exactly leave in the best of terms.
This is basically the final nail in the coffin that whoever is writing these quests doesn't care about Night Elf lore.

Or any lore for that matter.
10/08/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Rothiron
The queen point is very odd. Have to wonder if its a slip up, or maybe just a flawed perspective from Maiev.


I get they have a thing against Queens but maybe Maiev just sees it as semantics? It kinda is.
This is pretty clearly headed straight for "Tyrande makes a hasty decision that puts her in trouble, wise king Anduin was always right and she should have never gone off on her own", I hope the nelves are ready to be !@#$ on again

Also

"HURR GENN BUT IF WE PUSH OUR MILITARY ADVANTAGE THAT'S EXACTLY LIKE THE UNPROVOKED MASSACRE OF CIVILIANS" -Anduin

Jesus %^-*ing christ
10/08/2018 03:12 PMPosted by Éamon
She could have said "our leader", "Tyrande", or "High Priestess Whisperwind". There are other viable alternatives to the very lore unfriendly "our queen".


You know what. I've actually been thinking about this and I think queen works better in context.

Queen drives home the full weight of Tyrande's authority and duty to her people in the parlance that Anduin will most immediately relate too. And since we're talking about disobeying the High King of the Alliance and mobilizing her people for war against his wishes, that full weight needs to be on display.
Yet another reason why Walking Dead went down the drain; they kept trying to push this BS pacifist garbage down our throats by sparing mass murderers and sadists.
Attempting to hold onto our last vestiges of civilization and morality in a world that is ever increasingly devoid of such things, not to mention growing increasingly devoid of actual sentient humanity, is one of the reasons the Walking Dead went down the drain instead of its tendency to just kill off main characters for shock value?
10/08/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Roghter
10/08/2018 03:12 PMPosted by Éamon
She could have said "our leader", "Tyrande", or "High Priestess Whisperwind". There are other viable alternatives to the very lore unfriendly "our queen".


You know what. I've actually been thinking about this and I think queen works better in context.

Queen drives home the full weight of Tyrande's authority and duty to her people in the parlance that Anduin will most immediately relate too. And since we're talking about disobeying the High King of the Alliance and mobilizing her people for war against his wishes, that full weight needs to be on display.


There isn't a work around to this. She is not a Queen. Her authority is not that of a Queen. That authority is not being reshaped, remolded, or reinforced.

Her people would not stand for her being queen. Her authority comes from being the head of the church, which is the head of the Government.

They are not comparable at all.

Tyrande is a Theocrat, not an Autocrat
10/08/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Ferlion
Thats not the problem. Beta is beta, as you say.

The nature of the mistake is a problem, because it's a pretty core character and racial concept after the fall of Azshara.

It would be like saying Deathwing killed Sylvanas and raised her.
The thing is, yeah, I figure that Tyrande being called a queen is contrary to her character... but where exactly is it stated that she was opposed so vehemently to taking on the title? It wasn't anywhere in Warcraft 3 when she and the Night Elves were established, and I don't think I recollect it being in the WotA book trilogy.

I think its being a bit overblown that "They shall never have a queen" is being touted as a core character/racial concept that you can never forget or else you're writing the Night Elves wrong forevermore. There are several more relevant and core concepts to them than that. It's definitely nothing relevant like Deathwing's death, a historical world event that affects the entire world.

I mean, I get it, its a writing error, but they happen often, and its why editors are a thing. Assuming it is unintentional, it might ever get patched by release.
10/08/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Rothiron
10/08/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Ferlion
Thats not the problem. Beta is beta, as you say.

The nature of the mistake is a problem, because it's a pretty core character and racial concept after the fall of Azshara.

It would be like saying Deathwing killed Sylvanas and raised her.
The thing is, yeah, I figure that Tyrande being called a queen is contrary to her character... but where exactly is it stated that she was opposed so vehemently to taking on the title? It wasn't anywhere in Warcraft 3 when she and the Night Elves were established, and I don't think I recollect it being in the WotA book trilogy.

I think its being a bit overblown that "They shall never have a queen" is being touted as a core character/racial concept that you can never forget or else you're writing the Night Elves wrong forevermore. There are several more relevant and core concepts to them than that. It's definitely nothing relevant like Deathwing's death, a historical world event that affects the entire world.

I mean, I get it, its a writing error, but they happen often, and its why editors are a thing. Assuming it is unintentional, it might ever get patched by release.


In every book and character moment Tyrande has had where the subject has come up. Her own personal fear is like becoming Azshara. ITs her big self doubt. It's referenced several times that people showing her deference as if she were Queen makes her highly uncomfortable.

And worse, this isn't just one moment. It's TWICE in a scenario, one with Maiev, and one with Nanathos. Is Nanathos snark? Can it honestly be considered snark when Maiev says it?

One of my earlier ideas from years back was for Tyrande to accept the mantle of Queen, because it would be a massive cultural and character moment for the Night Elves akin to accepting Highborne back into their society.

And frankly, that it got through as a mistake isnt ok because it's not a small detail.

It's not the end of the world. It's easy to fix.
But it's also a major problem that calls into question how a mistake like that could have been made. Again, it's kind of akin to saying Sylvanas was killed and raised by Deathwing.
10/08/2018 03:46 PMPosted by Ferlion
In every book and character moment Tyrande has had where the subject has come up.
See, that's not super clear or helpful.

10/08/2018 03:46 PMPosted by Ferlion
Her own personal fear is like becoming Azshara. ITs her big self doubt. It's referenced several times that people showing her deference as if she were Queen makes her highly uncomfortable.

And worse, this isn't just one moment. It's TWICE in a scenario, one with Maiev, and one with Nanathos. Is Nanathos snark? Can it honestly be considered snark when Maiev says it?

One of my earlier ideas from years back was for Tyrande to accept the mantle of Queen, because it would be a massive cultural and character moment for the Night Elves akin to accepting Highborne back into their society.

And frankly, that it got through as a mistake isnt ok because it's not a small detail.
Should be noted that technically, by how you just described it, its not really inconsistent. Tyrande never acknowledges herself as a queen. Maiev seems to just call her one out of hand, and its possible that's only half a mistake.

Again, this isn't anything on the scale of getting a history-shaping world event wrong. Hardly anything worthy of disqualifying someone from ever writing for Night Elves ever again. In fact, if it turns out to be fixed by the time of the release, the only reason we'll ever have gotten word about it was by peeking in the middle of the creation process.
10/08/2018 03:57 PMPosted by Rothiron
10/08/2018 03:46 PMPosted by Ferlion
In every book and character moment Tyrande has had where the subject has come up.
See, that's not super clear or helpful.

10/08/2018 03:46 PMPosted by Ferlion
Her own personal fear is like becoming Azshara. ITs her big self doubt. It's referenced several times that people showing her deference as if she were Queen makes her highly uncomfortable.

And worse, this isn't just one moment. It's TWICE in a scenario, one with Maiev, and one with Nanathos. Is Nanathos snark? Can it honestly be considered snark when Maiev says it?

One of my earlier ideas from years back was for Tyrande to accept the mantle of Queen, because it would be a massive cultural and character moment for the Night Elves akin to accepting Highborne back into their society.

And frankly, that it got through as a mistake isnt ok because it's not a small detail.
Should be noted that technically, by how you just described it, its not really inconsistent. Tyrande never acknowledges herself as a queen. Maiev seems to just call her one out of hand, and its possible that's only half a mistake.

Again, this isn't anything on the scale of getting a history-shaping world event wrong. Hardly anything worthy of disqualifying someone from ever writing for Night Elves ever again. In fact, if it turns out to be fixed by the time of the release, the only reason we'll ever have gotten word about it was by peeking in the middle of the creation process.


It really is.

It's again, a core concept of her character.
"Our queen"?

This !@#$ is what kaldorei mains hate. Stop human-fying us FFS.
Um, no. It was to "Reclaim what is rightfully ours."
thats just to get the troops riled up, but otherwise the goal was explicitly stated to capture or kill sylvanas
To secure our future, the Banshee Queen must answer for her crimes. Her dark reign ends today!
and we confront her we tried to do that, but she banshees out of there
My problem with this is that it makes the night elves seem like they're pursuing this out of emotional interests instead of strategic interests. Obviously in times of war, the latter is what you should be focused on. They should've made it so that Tyrande had an actual reason to go there instead of making her seem hot-headed and impatient by making her go there for the sake of vengeance. They could've made it so that she went there because the Horde were raising night elven officers, and bolstering their forces.

Instead, they make her go there for vengeance. It seems way too forced. My money is that Blizzard wants to make Sylvanas seem smart again by making the Alliance stupid and incompetent once again, and dividing the alliance up. The whole point about Sylvanas wanting to occupy the tree was to force the Night Elves to go after their own interests, and the humans and worgen, their own. Her burning the tree took away that option and united the Alliance. Of course, Blizzard doesn't want Sylvanas to seem dumb, so they're making the Alliance divide themselves anyway over nothing. It's extremely annoying that there's no consequences whatsoever for horde characters. Lordaeron wiped out? Doesn't matter, city is plagued and so are many alliance soldiers, area is inhabitable, Sylvanas still escapes. Tyrande does a ritual turning into the embodiment of Elune's vengeance? Doesn't matter, she still gets her !@# kicked by Sylvanas' boytoy, until Malfurion saves them. All they do is kill 1 val'kyr, which doesn't have any effect considering all she needs is 3 to resurrect, which she has.

Really annoying what they're doing with the story, and it's extremely annoying that they're completely changing certain characters to fit what they want instead of having characters act as they should.
10/08/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Roghter
Queen drives home the full weight of Tyrande's authority and duty to her people in the parlance that Anduin will most immediately relate too. And since we're talking about disobeying the High King of the Alliance and mobilizing her people for war against his wishes, that full weight needs to be on display.


As the leader of the Kaldorei she is not disobeying Anduin. A "High King" has no authority over her. Anduin may choose to suggest plans or ideas but it is up to Tyrande to decide whether she follows them or not. Also as an Alliance every leader is expected to know about other races government so if Maive says "High Priestess Tyrande" Anduin should inmediatly understand what it implies.
Night elves shouldn't have to change the way they refer to their heriarchy becuase a human King might not get it.
People still think High King is a literal Emperor and don't see how its a complete contradiction of the entire concept of a "alliance of equals" that WC2 was all about.


This is all your fault, Blizzard.
When did Tyrande become "Queen"?

Is this a new honorary after turning into the Night Warrior?
10/08/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Roghter
Queen drives home the full weight of Tyrande's authority and duty to her people in the parlance that Anduin will most immediately relate too. And since we're talking about disobeying the High King of the Alliance and mobilizing her people for war against his wishes, that full weight needs to be on display.


As the leader of the Kaldorei she is not disobeying Anduin. A "High King" has no authority over her. Anduin may choose to suggest plans or ideas but it is up to Tyrande to decide whether she follows them or not. Also as an Alliance every leader is expected to know about other races government so if Maive says "High Priestess Tyrande" Anduin should inmediatly understand what it implies.
Night elves shouldn't have to change the way they refer to their heriarchy becuase a human King might not get it.

10/08/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Araiel
My problem with this is that it makes the night elves seem like they're pursuing this out of emotional interests instead of strategic interests. Obviously in times of war, the latter is what you should be focused on. They should've made it so that Tyrande had an actual reason to go there instead of making her seem hot-headed and impatient by making her go there for the sake of vengeance. They could've made it so that she went there because the Horde were raising night elven officers, and bolstering their forces.


Also they Night elves don't need more reasons to go back to Darkshore and fight.
They are already there holding what little is left. Darkshora and Ashenvale have been their ancestral home for millenia so it is more than expected for them to go to war over it.
When is it ok for them to go back? When our Human allies finish up all items on their check list? Because If NE have to wait until alliance get back Arathi, Lordaeron, push towards Silvermoon, siege Zuldazar well then let me tell you that there won't be a need to go weage war at Kalimdor because there wont be any forest left.

Just look how the orcs alone destroy eastern Ashenvale. Imagine what damage can do the combined forces of Forsaken + Goblins.

If NE want their lands back they need to do it now. Just look what Goblins did to Darkshore. They are going to defile everything and oh I bet they wont just stop there. They would probably go up and up until they destroy Hyjal itself and by then there won't be anyone to oppose them.
Ok Alliance side of Darkshore quest is up with a video on Wowhead

go check it out
10/08/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Nightlighter
10/08/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Roghter
Queen drives home the full weight of Tyrande's authority and duty to her people in the parlance that Anduin will most immediately relate too. And since we're talking about disobeying the High King of the Alliance and mobilizing her people for war against his wishes, that full weight needs to be on display.


As the leader of the Kaldorei she is not disobeying Anduin. A "High King" has no authority over her. Anduin may choose to suggest plans or ideas but it is up to Tyrande to decide whether she follows them or not. Also as an Alliance every leader is expected to know about other races government so if Maive says "High Priestess Tyrande" Anduin should inmediatly understand what it implies.
Night elves shouldn't have to change the way they refer to their heriarchy becuase a human King might not get it.

10/08/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Araiel
My problem with this is that it makes the night elves seem like they're pursuing this out of emotional interests instead of strategic interests. Obviously in times of war, the latter is what you should be focused on. They should've made it so that Tyrande had an actual reason to go there instead of making her seem hot-headed and impatient by making her go there for the sake of vengeance. They could've made it so that she went there because the Horde were raising night elven officers, and bolstering their forces.


Also they Night elves don't need more reasons to go back to Darkshore and fight.
They are already there holding what little is left. Darkshora and Ashenvale have been their ancestral home for millenia so it is more than expected for them to go to war over it.
When is it ok for them to go back? When our Human allies finish up all items on their check list? Because If NE have to wait until alliance get back Arathi, Lordaeron, push towards Silvermoon, siege Zuldazar well then let me tell you that there won't be a need to go weage war at Kalimdor because there wont be any forest left.

Just look how the orcs alone destroy eastern Ashenvale. Imagine what damage can do the combined forces of Forsaken + Goblins.

If NE want their lands back they need to do it now. Just look what Goblins did to Darkshore. They are going to defile everything and oh I bet they wont just stop there. They would probably go up and up until they destroy Hyjal itself and by then there won't be anyone to oppose them.


The Horde is specifically blighting the forests in the quests. Entire rivers are green with blight.

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