Just did my first M+ within timer

General Discussion
And this is why you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, or rather a player by their raider IO(which I don't use, so I don't know what mine is... however none of my times on WoWprogress are within timer)

I just got invited to a +9 Shrine of the Storm through the group finder. And we finished it on time so they pushed their key to a +10.

Had they of judged me on the fact I've completed none in time previous, and my highest Shrine run previous was a +6 - well then I wouldn't have gotten invited.

In truth, I never cared to finish in time, I usually do my runs Sunday or Monday when laid back groups just want to complete the dungeon no matter what the timer says.

Looking bad, doesn't mean you *are* bad. I didn't die once in the run, we had 0 wipes. Only deaths were the odd person on trash. And it's a Grievous week too! So obviously, I can heal just fine. But most be like "Sorry you're not 1k+ IO so no invite"
Cool story!
10/21/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Xiata
I just got invited to a +9 Shrine of the Storm through the group finder. And we finished it on time so they pushed their key to a +10.


The biggest gratz would be you managing to get into a +9 pug without using raider.io

Inb4: trolls tells you got carried :)
There is no logical reason anyone should be using scoring systems for keys that easy, honestly. I understand wanting to vet people for things that should challenge your group, but if you are pugging a NINE and you feel like you need to compare every applicant against a median, then the person doing that is just not very good at the game.

No two ways around that, if you ask me.

The scoring system has some MAJOR flaws, but the biggest one overall is its far too incomplete a metric to be used so wildly by people who aren't that capable themselves.
Take THAT, Raider IO users!!!!!
10/21/2018 08:19 AMPosted by Metrohaha
There is no logical reason anyone should be using scoring systems for keys that easy, honestly. I understand wanting to vet people for things that should challenge your group, but if you are pugging a NINE and you feel like you need to compare every applicant against a median, then the person doing that is just not very good at the game.

No two ways around that, if you ask me.

The scoring system has some MAJOR flaws, but the biggest one overall is its far too incomplete a metric to be used so wildly by people who aren't that capable themselves.

How is that worse than them just using ilvl?

And have you pugged much? There is no guarantee that any key will be easy when you have to invite a group of strangers.
10/21/2018 08:19 AMPosted by Metrohaha
There is no logical reason anyone should be using scoring systems for keys that easy, honestly. I understand wanting to vet people for things that should challenge your group, but if you are pugging a NINE and you feel like you need to compare every applicant against a median, then the person doing that is just not very good at the game.

No two ways around that, if you ask me.

The scoring system has some MAJOR flaws, but the biggest one overall is its far too incomplete a metric to be used so wildly by people who aren't that capable themselves.


As someone that pugs almost exclusively, I can tell you that blind inviting on anything over a 7 usually results in a run not completed in time. I imagine at your item level and depending on what you set your minimum item level to join at, your experience may be quite different. However, with an item level in the low 360s and taking along comparably geared people, you come across some horrendous key killing play without using raider.io as a filter.
No one believes just because someone has a low raider.io score they are incapable of doing content. It's just about odds. For every healer that can do it easily, many won't be able to. Don't take it personally.
Not sure how things are now, but in Legion no one really checked your IO score for anything less than a 10.

I mean, I was the same dirty casual I've always been since Cata and I never had a problem getting into the +5-10 content I felt comfortable with. And my IO score was like 2-300? lol No one was choosing me because of my IO score, that's for sure.
Bro you're a healer, in effort to not wait an eternity, I invite !@#$ healers all the time just to do the key rather than wait. They probably got sick if waiting, knew that healing is piss easy this week, and grabbed you. But keep rubbing your own shoulders and giving yourself attaboys!
10/21/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Xiata
And this is why you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, or rather a player by their raider IO(which I don't use, so I don't know what mine is... however none of my times on WoWprogress are within timer)


No one judges you when you get declined, it's just that the chances of some1 with decent io being bad are less than some1 with low io being bad, its all about odds, people need to stop taking it personal.
Grats on getting carried,

I would have kicked you and gotten 1 of another 1000 people that actually have completed multiple M+'s months in.

Welcome to WoW, those of us that have grinded since the beginning do not want to carry the new guy, big surprise.
10/21/2018 08:19 AMPosted by Metrohaha
There is no logical reason anyone should be using scoring systems for keys that easy, honestly. I understand wanting to vet people for things that should challenge your group, but if you are pugging a NINE and you feel like you need to compare every applicant against a median, then the person doing that is just not very good at the game.

No two ways around that, if you ask me.

The scoring system has some MAJOR flaws, but the biggest one overall is its far too incomplete a metric to be used so wildly by people who aren't that capable themselves.
Some of the hardest keys I've pugged have been in the 4-8 range... Like way harder than my guild 10's and 11's.
10/21/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Woopei
And have you pugged much? There is no guarantee that any key will be easy when you have to invite a group of strangers.

Yup, I do about 20-24 hours a week of livestreaming M+ pugging.
I've started to weave in 1-2 days worth of that on alts now as well, doing 7~

Relying on "score" for those keys is just wasting your own time.
You would have to do something seriously wrong to not upgrade your key at that level, to the tune of wipe multiple times.

Its certainly possible, especially with some dungeons.
I had it happen in Seige of Boralus actually. I did a TWO, and two people had no idea how the first boss worked, and we simply didn't kill it because all the bombs would go off every time.

Problem is, they were actually like 500 score or something, they just have never done that dungeon or something, idk.

The only thing I worry about when I pug low keys is that the people have something worth having.
Usually that's item level, or progression somewhere else in the game.

If you are 370+ you can complete a 9 on time.
You don't need to have a 9 on time in every other dungeon for that to be the case.

That's the problem with score right now. It gives credit to other keys on other weeks. That's totally irrelevant for the dungeon you are about to do, and causes a lot of people who aren't very skilled to crutch on it, despite it being near irrelevant for determining success for what you are doing at that given time.
10/21/2018 09:46 AMPosted by Synsha
Some of the hardest keys I've pugged have been in the 4-8 range... Like way harder than my guild 10's and 11's.


Oh ya, I had that problem all the time in Legion as well.
Some times its way harder to complete a timed dungeon on the lower keys, despite things being considerably easier, because people don't know what to do.

If you need to teach people what to do, then you can't expect to upgrade the key.
Instead of looking at score, make sure they have done the specific M+ dungeon you are doing on a keystone level appropriate to your needs.

If they have done all other dungeons but never completed the one you are doing, score wont help you realize that.
10/21/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Mistblossom
Take THAT, Raider IO users!!!!!


/shrug. Still not worth the gamble. We've never said you can't find good pugs without using the addon.
10/21/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Metrohaha
That's the problem with score right now. It gives credit to other keys on other weeks. That's totally irrelevant for the dungeon you are about to do, and causes a lot of people who aren't very skilled to crutch on it, despite it being near irrelevant for determining success for what you are doing at that given time.


You are gonna aggro all the raider.io fanboys now Metro :)
It's going to be okay billy.
Just point on the doll where the mean man with raider io hurt you.
10/21/2018 09:46 AMPosted by Cstain
Grats on getting carried,

I would have kicked you and gotten 1 of another 1000 people that actually have completed multiple M+'s months in.

Welcome to WoW, those of us that have grinded since the beginning do not want to carry the new guy, big surprise.


I don't think I got "carried" - could they have done it without a healer? Not likely. It wasn't like I died/just went AFK and got a "carry".

I'm also not "new" I just hate M+ - I do 1 a week for a cache, that's it. I just never liked timers. When I did challenge modes in MoP I hated every minute of it(though I did it on 3 diff class healers) and I didn't enjoy the Legion challenge mode either so I only did it on this Druid. Not everyone likes 5 man dungeons where you have to GO GO GO GO against a clock. I'm all for more health/more mechanics etc I rather wipe to mechanics then have to pull like a madman.
If you do enough dungeons eventually one will randomly work out. I like how you don't look at your failed keys and think "hey maybe I am a bad healer" but you get 1 on time and you're like "clearly my healing is good."

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