With New Creators, It's Not The Same WOW.

Story Forum
I loved WC3, it's writing, and all it's characters. But by BFA, most of them have been killed off or changed so greatly they are unrecognizable. I suppose this is understandable as WC3 came out 16 years ago and NONE of it's writers work on WOW anymore.

With shared IPs like WOW, it's common for new creators to disrespect previous creator's work to prop up their own new contributions. I usually find this in bad taste or outright offensive. But sometimes I appreciate it when bad author pets somehow become core canon. For example most of Knaak's sketchy characters were mowed down in Cata.

I guess this thread was motivated because I have to keep telling myself in BFA "These aren't the WC3 characters I loved, these morons are just puppets that look like them under the control of strangers."
It's the same concept as transitioning from JJ Abrams' Star Wars to Rian Johnson's Star Wars. Plots and characters that Abrams crafted for something bigger are dumbed down to shock value plot points and discarded for Johnson's crappy one-off.
Well if your Alliance, all your WC3 hereos are alive and most are main fixes within the story. The last one for Horde is Sylvanas, but that seems to be coming to an end.

Well I guess I lie, I forget Rhokan and Rexxar are actually back and Baine also exists.
10/23/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Dittrazkalok
Well if your Alliance, all your WC3 hereos are alive and most are main fixes within the story. The last one for Horde is Sylvanas, but that seems to be coming to an end.

Well I guess I lie, I forget Rhokan and Rexxar are actually back and Baine also exists.
If you are a WC3 Alliance fan, Jaina and the NEs are not what they used to be. If you are a WC3 Horde fan...I'm so sorry.
Obligatory "Give me my WC3 Night Elves" post.
10/23/2018 01:03 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
10/23/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Dittrazkalok
Well if your Alliance, all your WC3 hereos are alive and most are main fixes within the story. The last one for Horde is Sylvanas, but that seems to be coming to an end.

Well I guess I lie, I forget Rhokan and Rexxar are actually back and Baine also exists.
If you are a WC3 Alliance fan, Jaina and the NEs are not what they used to be. If you are a WC3 Horde fan...I'm so sorry.


The WC3 Alliance is shown to be the villian/victim with one lone redeeming person left (jaina) holding the remains of a crumbling of the once proud states of the Alliance. The night elves join the alliance after that.
Post wrath WoW really does remind me of TLJ. It a malicious attempt at deconstructing the previous work and characters without building something new and greater in its place. I’m facepalming to how Alex and co will be tipping their fedoras as they have Sylvanas kill god(Elune)or some nonsense.
The fetishization of WCIII is getting tedious.

The basic model of storytelling in WCIII wasn't better, it was just easier. Each character has a campaign with a single, clear storyline to it. There was no need in these campaigns to cater to multiple playerbases with differing expectations. Perhaps most importantly, each campaign had the potential to end with a substantial change to the status quo.

WoW's basic structure means that every story is too long, every story has to please people on opposite sides of the issue, and nothing can ever actually change. Not to mention the absurdity of two factions gobbling up every polity on the planet.

WoW's writers are facing a much, MUCH harder task than anything the WCIII folks ever had to deal with.

10/23/2018 12:50 PMPosted by Grandblade
It's the same concept as transitioning from JJ Abrams' Star Wars to Rian Johnson's Star Wars. Plots and characters that Abrams crafted for something bigger are dumbed down to shock value plot points and discarded for Johnson's crappy one-off.


Sorry, I read that as "boring, predictable rehashes are being desperately salvaged into something potentially interesting."
WoW's basic structure means that every story is too long, every story has to please people on opposite sides of the issue, and nothing can ever actually change.
Only if they make horrible faction war expansions.
10/23/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Gavik
The fetishization of WCIII is getting tedious.


I suppose it is the nature of a game designed to age gracefully. But some wrinkles are inevitable.

WC 3s Story was like a rush of events. It takes place between WC2 and WoW. I am not sure about the exact amount of years WC3 covers, but it was a finite timespan.

WoW encompasses a larger and evolving time frame. Things just happened, are happening, and will happen in WoWs story. As well as going back and forth through time.

WC3 is easier to quantify and judge as a whole. While WoW can be a rollercoaster. The game play can be good, then bad. PvE is good but PvP ignored. Or the PvP is great and PvE highly gated like in BC.

Sometimes the story is awesome...and sometimes it resembles the boss in Uldir, Fetid Devourer - a compilation of the waste and remains of real stories.
eh.. i don't know i think they have done a pretty solid job with jaina, even if mop was a clown fiesta of bipolar issues, i guess that she was just mentally unstable.

i like to think that the demon killing therapy and going to hell put some perspective on her.

she is not the same of wc3 but that is natural considering that the world changes people for better or worse.
(in fact, in seems like she is returning to her roots)

As for nelfs.. well,all nelfs characters have been kicked in so many different levels, particularly tyrande, they did some serious character assassination with her a
plenty number of times.
all for that varian potential.
A little patience should have been tyrande teaching a lesson to varian, not the other way around.
She should have been present during war of thorns, maybe she could have died protecting her people.
what the hell was that about using stormwind hearhtstone ?
what happened to the tyrande who choose her duty above malfurion?

Malfurion has been pretty much useless, maiev was turned into a genocidal maniac who hasn't been punished. i guess that the only character that hasn't really changed was shandris who has been minor.
Then we have illidan the savior of the universe who "he was good the whole time!"
oh, and right, maiev working with illidan, hey maiev, aren't you vengeance incarnate? what happened to naisha?

And now we have this whole night warrior fiasco where a random like nathanos acts like a supervillain and gets away with it.
tyrande and maiev becomes superfriends, their people gets raised and betray them
tyrande "power up" seems like a nerf i remember in wc3 with her starfall demolishing armies.

and my favorite "kill them all" and 5 minutes later "let him to root" hmm, pretty sure that he can't die of old age or feel pain. and of course that someone will save him.
10/23/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Gavik
The basic model of storytelling in WCIII wasn't better, it was just easier.

It was mechanically better. The story was told in acts with building tension, a climax, and a denouement. The pacing in WoW is often terrible. You can't sustain mounting tension for a three month content gap before finally delivering the climax. Blizzard still hasn't managed to figure out how to apportion their story into content patches in a way that works.

It isn't hard to do. it's just different. Blizzard just fails to design their story in a way that can be reasonably told in an episodic manner. Each patch should be an episode with a self-contained story that also serves to advance the overarching narrative of the expansion.
10/23/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Gavik
The fetishization of WCIII is getting tedious.

I'd rather "fetishize" WC3 than WC2.
10/23/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Gavik
Sorry, I read that as "boring, predictable rehashes are being desperately salvaged into something potentially interesting."
Subjective reading, considering The Last Jedi did none of that. Then again, BfA is both the boring, predictable rehash AND the attempt to be potentially interesting so... I mean, if you think WC3 was the boring predictable part, then you're just going to have a miserable time discussing the Story.
10/23/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Gavik

Sorry, I read that as "boring, predictable rehashes are being desperately salvaged into something potentially interesting."


>potentially interesting

Exactly, it had the (human) potential to be a good movie- but it wasnt.

It got the point that its getting retconned next movie via time travel.
(And it also made me appreciate the prequels more)
10/23/2018 03:00 PMPosted by Gharion
10/23/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Gavik

Sorry, I read that as "boring, predictable rehashes are being desperately salvaged into something potentially interesting."


>potentially interesting

Exactly, it had the (human) potential to be a good movie- but it wasnt.

It got the point that its getting retconned next movie via time travel.
(And it also made me appreciate the prequels more)
I just read that article... how legit is it? Cause it's either a hoax, JJ Abrams slapping Johnson in the face, or he's somehow for real.

The middle one is the most desirable.
10/23/2018 01:03 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
If you are a WC3 Alliance fan, Jaina and the NEs are not what they used to be. If you are a WC3 Horde fan...I'm so sorry.
The Scourge fans are in a pretty good place though! I wonder how Blizzard intends to disappoint them.
@Grandblade

IKR.

Manlet johnson did say that he wanted to "subvert expectations, get people pissed and talking".

Now hes mad he got what he wanted
You can easily create a faction divide without being as bad as BfA.

Horde didn't get much spotlight in WOTLK but there was so many angles for the Horde players to exist in, it felt much better than being the lapdog of evil or incompetent characters. There was multiple characters and each had their own voice, demonstrating their opinions and what they'd do and allowing the players to latch onto those they'd agree with.

Same with the Alliance. When Varian declared war on the Horde in the Undercity, the players were divided between "about time" and "omg not another Daelin."

BfA focuses too much on the characters without giving dissenting opinions which leaves the player feel ostracized by their faction. In a "pride" expansion
10/23/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Gavik
The fetishization of WCIII is getting tedious.
It shouldn't, considering its still the high point of the series' storytelling.

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