I suck at dpsing and keep getting booted from raids

General Discussion
11/01/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Vorlith
I'm trying. I just really really hate frost/unholy and that's not helping. I really don't enjoy playing those specs at all which is why I focus on tanking on my DK. I think I'm better off having a separate character that I actually enjoy playing the dps specs.

Yes, you are.

Plus, maintaining two characters really isn't difficult at all. I don't like DPS'ing on my DK, so I play my warlock instead. Find a DPS playstyle you enjoy and level up that toon.
If you want to be good at dps, stick to dps. Invest some time in studying up on your dps spec and practice.
11/01/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Joegnar
Sometimes it's not you, it's the gear


Or, when you realize it's the player. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/vorlith#difficulty=3

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/12-Normal+Fetid+Devourer+-+Kill+(2:22)/34-Vorlith
11/01/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Vorlith
11/01/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Edwærd
Then get better? I mean, low DPS is an issue in a nonguild run man. Does it suck? yep. There are addons that help you get better at dpsing. Try those.


I'm trying. I just really really hate frost/unholy and that's not helping. I really don't enjoy playing those specs at all which is why I focus on tanking on my DK. I think I'm better off having a separate character that I actually enjoy playing the dps specs.

It's mostly frustrating because the last instance of me being kicked there wasn't an issue with the group dps at all. We were one shotting bosses easily but then all of a sudden people just stopped paying attention to mechanics and they kept dying for no reason.


Heres the deal. You are "trying' but complaining when you aren't up to snuff and getting kicked. That sucks, i feel yah, but you can't blame anyone but yourself. No group should have to carry anyone. Until you get your rotations and the encounters down pat enough to not be below the min on DPS to get kicked, you will. It sucks for you, it's not fair in your eyes, but it also isn't fair to them. They are wasting their time too on a slower encounter, repeat fails, and more, because you don't know how to frost/unholy. Especially at wipes it wil always be the lowest dps fault, that and tank because no one thinks they can just eff up. Is it fair to ask them to waste more time on someone new to those specs when there is countless more waiting that do know their spec and can do it?
That is a big issue when you have an oversaturation of specs that can DPS. 12 classes, 3 specs average. 36 possible specs, and 6 are tank. 6 are heals, that makes 24 dps specs. You have alot more potential rivals to DPS and thus have to perform better to be able to stay. It is a constant competition in pug. My advice? Guild raid or raid with friends until you are good enough to pug. You may never be good enough to pug, and thats fine, but you can't complain about it being unfair when the onus and burden is on you man. You say you prefer tanking, so do that. It's easy for a Blood DK to get into anything, and its alot more involved for the most part with tanking. Stick with what you are good at, or don't complain when your performance is lackluster. That still regardless falls on you.
11/01/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Familypet
11/01/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Joegnar
Sometimes it's not you, it's the gear


Or, when you realize it's the player. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/vorlith#difficulty=3

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/12-Normal+Fetid+Devourer+-+Kill+(2:22)/34-Vorlith


Don't be snotty to the guy. He can learn to smack buttons in a particular order... can you learn not to be condesending?
11/01/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Joegnar
11/01/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Familypet
...

Or, when you realize it's the player. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/vorlith#difficulty=3

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/12-Normal+Fetid+Devourer+-+Kill+(2:22)/34-Vorlith


Don't be snotty to the guy. He can learn to smack buttons in a particular order... can you learn not to be condesending?


The second website is pretty cool. Never seen that before. But yeah not quite sure the reason to be condesending to someone how flat out admit he sucks at something lol.
11/01/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Joegnar
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Or, when you realize it's the player. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/vorlith#difficulty=3

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/12-Normal+Fetid+Devourer+-+Kill+(2:22)/34-Vorlith


Don't be snotty to the guy. He can learn to smack buttons in a particular order... can you learn not to be condesending?


Maybe once you stop coddling the poor guy and making excuses for him.

[quote="207684001809"]<span class="truncated">...</span>

Or, when you realize it's the player. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/vorlith#difficulty=3

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/12-Normal+Fetid+Devourer+-+Kill+(2:22)/34-Vorlith


Don't be snotty to the guy. He can learn to smack buttons in a particular order... can you learn not to be condesending?


Pointing out that it's not a gear issue as much as a player issue.
When you’re bottom of the dps - you’re not a scapegoat. You’re underperforming and hurting the raid. Low dps is about the same as dead dps. In the end, it’d be better if neither were in a flex raid.
He freely admits that. What I posted also will assist him in doing more dps as he gets "better" gear. Instead you chose to be a troll.

To the OP, always run a sim

https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator

when getting new stuff. Run the addons that teach you the proper order and timing of frost abilities to learn your rotation, keeping in mind some arcanite traits may alter that rotation.

Essentially what all the helpful posters have suggested will help you.
play frost

start hitting any button you want
when something shines press it
from there just keep using anything thats avaliable
there you go pal, yw
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Don't be snotty to the guy. He can learn to smack buttons in a particular order... can you learn not to be condesending?


Maybe once you stop coddling the poor guy and making excuses for him.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/area-52/familypet#difficulty=4

Oh boy, and you're soooooo good too, noticed a lot of gray and greens in your logs too. Feel free to come after me for my logs, I don't really care since I pull my weight still in my guild's runs. As for OP, he's welcome to come and join our groups weekend runs if he wants, we raid 6am-9am EST saturday and sunday, we're quite a laid back group, perfect for learning your rotation and the like with us.
11/01/2018 08:59 AMPosted by Maizono
Oh boy, and you're soooooo good too, noticed a lot of gray and greens in your logs too.


Brought this toon to 1 1/2 herioc clears. And bring it to 1 boss in mythic reclear. This toon hardly sees any play outside of that tbh
What about fights like Mother? Last night I did heroic Mother and was in group one. So I spent a lot of time just standing in the next chamber hitting a few adds every once in a while. Do people worry about logs on a fight like that?
11/01/2018 09:07 AMPosted by Vorlith
What about fights like Mother? Last night I did heroic Mother and was in group one. So I spent a lot of time just standing in the next chamber hitting a few adds every once in a while. Do people worry about logs on a fight


Generally, the boss should be close enough to the wall where you can melee it if you stand at your side of the wall.
OP, if you would like to try Unholy instead of going Frost spec and want some help, I can try and help. I raid as Unholy and you can check my logs here:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/sargeras/veranolth?spec=Unholy#difficulty=4

I'm not the best DK around but I'm able to help out if you'd like.

Veranolth#1429
Frost is more prone to large deltas in dps if you don't manage BoS well or get random mechanics to do. I loved it in Nighthold and hated it in Tomb. Unholy is more consistent in my opinion. Keep your dots rolling and pop zits, the cooldowns are no way near as important. The downside is the neckbeards in a heroic pug will no doubt rage you are in the wrong spec. Best join a guild or find a discord group to avoid that toxic nonsense.
11/01/2018 07:12 AMPosted by Vorlith
Makes me sad :(
So, I took a quick look at your logs.

There's definitely issues, but things you can work on to improve to be sure.

I did see that you were taking a fair amount more of avoidable damage than you really should on a bunch of fights.

I also saw you basically aren't using potions. You'll want to pre-pot at 1-2 sec before the pull, and if you aren't blood lusting at the start, then use the 2nd pot when blood lust comes up (and make sure you have your dps cooldowns ready to coincide with it). If you do lust at the start, then use a 2nd pot when you dps cooldowns come up again (or at critical parts in the fight as needed by your raid).

A quick view over at wowanalyzer will have some helpful suggestions for you:
  • https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/2-Normal+Taloc+-+Kill+(4:53)/34-Vorlith
  • https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/4-Normal+MOTHER+-+Kill+(4:42)/34-Vorlith
  • https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/12-Normal+Fetid+Devourer+-+Kill+(2:22)/34-Vorlith
  • https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/16-Normal+Vectis+-+Kill+(5:12)/34-Vorlith
  • https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/21-Normal+Zek'voz+-+Kill+(6:14)/34-Vorlith
  • https://wowanalyzer.com/report/t3H2jXZQfJvBhFkR/26-Normal+Zul+-+Kill+(3:53)/34-Vorlith


Common themes: You aren't getting good up time from Breath of Sindragosa, you overcap a lot of runes, you miss casting a lot of potential DPS cooldowns Pillar of Frost in particular, and you occasionally miss using Killing Machine procs.

Getting better at those things will significantly improve your dps. Once you get it down to muscle memory, you'll have faster reactions during combat to not miss critical things. You might want to also get weakauras and download a Frost rotation helper that can help highlight when things are up and waiting for you to use them. Or one of the other rotation helper addons.

Also, there are some Discord channels for the class you can visit, and ask for help in. Prepare for some snark, but if you genuinely are looking for help a lot of folks will provide constructive criticism to help you target what you need to work on to get better.

11/01/2018 07:26 AMPosted by Vorlith
Frost is supposed to be good right? I haven't heard a single good thing about unholy in raids. I just don't enjoy the Frost playstyle. It find it pretty boring waiting around for Breath of Sindragosa usages for my biggest dps windows.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

Frost is the top of the stack right now. Unholy lags far far behind in some fights like Mythrax, can be competitive in some fights, and for some like G'huun is better, or Zul is actually way better. Overall though, Frost is ahead in Uldir.

If you aren't having fun with it, then that's one thing. But you have a lot of things you can do and practice on to get better with to improve in either Frost or Unholy.

Also, enchant your rings!
Frost dks have extremely high dps gains right now you have no excuse just like a DH who only needs too press eye beam.
11/01/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Edwærd
Then get better?


Why do people say this as if it's meant to be helpful?
11/01/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Vorlith
11/01/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Edwærd
Then get better? I mean, low DPS is an issue in a nonguild run man. Does it suck? yep. There are addons that help you get better at dpsing. Try those.


I'm trying. I just really really hate frost/unholy and that's not helping. I really don't enjoy playing those specs at all which is why I focus on tanking on my DK. I think I'm better off having a separate character that I actually enjoy playing the dps specs.

It's mostly frustrating because the last instance of me being kicked there wasn't an issue with the group dps at all. We were one shotting bosses easily but then all of a sudden people just stopped paying attention to mechanics and they kept dying for no reason.


If you don't like the current Frost/Unholy specs, do you happen to have any other max level alts you enjoy DPS'ing on? If not, I recommend making one. I've healed my entire career in this game, and this xpac, I made this rogue. I absolutely love playing him. I used to want my "main" to do everything (my priest), but this xpac, I've gotten away from that.

If you're solely wanting to play your DK, I recommend just practicing. Simulate your DPS on one of those fancy websites to see where it says a perfect robot would be. Then, go hit the training dummy for 5 minutes and see how your DPS comes out after the full 5 minutes. Try and identify the problem from there. Research the speccs proper rotation. Learn how to manage your CD's and use them on the right times during certain boss fights. I don't know anything about DK's, so I wouldn't be any help.

I find myself consistently performing well on this rogue and getting high on the charts, but I suck on my hunter for some reason. I haven't practiced with him nearly enough, but I also just really enjoy this character.

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