Does anyone else still really hate SCALING?

General Discussion
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I don't like the scaling for crafting reasons. Items needed in crafting were tied to level and now are tied to location---you have to know where wool or runecloth can be gathered rather than looking at the level of the mobs and knowing what they'll drop. It also bars those who haven't hit the level cap from farming an area (or exploring, thought they wanted us to see the world) because EVERYTHING is attacking AND THEY'RE YOUR LEVEL. My leveling alts definitely feel weaker at every stage.
I don't hate scalling, I just think it was handled badly, the thing with making old content difficult is that the old content is boring, pre-cata quest design feels too outdated that it isn't fun, leveling takes longer and feels less rewarding.
I like the side of it that allows us to level in any zone we like all the way through but i HATE that they used the patch as an opportunity to not only make leveling longer, but they also turned everything into damage sponges, it isn't challenging, its just time consuming.
I despise it with a passion.
It's an awful mechanic and people are abusing it. (PVP scaling)

Here is how they are abusing it :
People are equipping lower item level gear with sockets in their non-azerite slots, to cause their azerite traits to scale up in power tremendously.

Low item level players take less damage vs high ilvl players, but their trait damage is on par when abusing this bug.

Meanwhile the high ilvl players damage is reduced entirely.

There was a patch to spot fix this problem, nerfing Latent Poison by 30 % in pvp situations - Because a player discovered with low item level their trait was hitting just as hard.

Hunters that don't abuse this bug in the system suffered by losing latent poison damage. (30 %)
A very substantial loss, on a VERY fun and engaging azerite trait.

I'm sure there are many other classes suffering from similar changes.

Here is why it's not a good mechanic:

I've had friends complain that they can't feel the power of their gear in pvp.

I thought this scaling system was just for casual pvp like random battle grounds and skirmishes.

We are not so sure seeing as how people have been abusing this mechanic in rated arenas.

Everyone wants their gear to mean something, especially in ranked pvp. It would make so much more sense to have it cut and dry like it used to be.

Is it possible to revert scaling at this point? And just make it work like it used to, I hit for X and that player has X health and X midigation. Just take Ilvl out of the equation, please.

Writing this got cut-short, but I'll revisit the thread in search of some sense out of this, at least explain this scaling to us honestly please.

I also have more I wanted to say about how I have higher ilvl gear in my bag, that I am not wearing - and it is affecting me negatively in this scaling system. I will elaborate later when I have time.
11/08/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Blueorchid
With the scaling I just feel like I am getting no where. The way it was the more you lvl'd.. the more you lvl'd your gear.. the stronger and more invincible you felt.. the faster you could clear content...it felt like you were accomplishing something. Now everything feels grindy to me because it is lacking that kick butt factor that USED to come with lvl'ing and gearing up.


This bears repeating. I agree 100% with this sentiment. I saw the discussion where Ion explained the rationale for why you actually do get weaker as you level up. That's great in theory, but appears to ignore a significant fact.

Leveling up should make you feel more powerful. Each time you hear that level up ding, you should feel like you're a little stronger against your enemies, not a little weaker. The current system really detracts from the enjoyment of leveling.

So just forget all the theory that says we should get weaker, and instead adjust the numbers so that as we level, we do get stronger against our enemies. Yes, the argument has been made that we need to be fairly weak at level cap, so that we can gain strength as we gear up.

However, when you compare the relative power gain going from 110 to 120 to the power gain between someone who has just hit 120 to someone who's at Ilvl 350 or higher, we gain a greater percentage of our power at the level cap than we do on the way there.

So there's some wiggle room here. Use that to let us power up a bit as we level up. It'll make the leveling experience better. It really will.
I guess they dont understand how maths gets translated into reality. If you look at a graph of the level/ilvl scaling it prolly looks good on paper but the reality is that it feels bad. just sitting back and saying "well it looks good so we're sticking with it" is moronic.
There are things I like and hate about it. But overall it's not that bad. But they should have stopped at level scaling and not added ilvl scaling also.
The biggest problem with scaling is that it takes away from people's sense of accomplishment when they hit 120.

Easiest fix isn't changing the scaling, it's adding an extra tier of talents to choose from when you reach max level.

It's ridiculous how long you go in this game without gaining abilities that aren't tied to gear that you probably can't even unlock until you've already gotten higher level gear.
I’m going to be honest: of all the features to come to WoW since I left in WoD, level scaling is my absolute favorite one.

Before Level scaling, I might have 3 or 4 zones I could Quest in at any given level, tops. Really, it was more like 2 most of the time.

Additionally, I’d be past the level cap for that zone by the time I was halfway through the zone’s quests, and have to move on unless I wanted every enemy to start going green and grey.

I’m currently leveling up multiple alts right now, and level scaling makes each and every one able to have their own unique story and adventure, even if mostly decked out in heirlooms.

A couple weeks ago, I did all of Sholazar Basin from start to finish on my Mage, and now I’m moving on to Netherstorm. Do you know how long it’s been since I’ve gone to Netherstorm? Literally a decade minus tempest keep solo runs. Every time I’d reached the point I could play it before, it was time for Northrend.

My Rogue is finishing Northern Barrens now at level 26, and I have so many options of where to go next in Kalimdor alone! I’m thinking Stonetalon Mountains, but I’m debating what comes after.

I love it so much, I couldn’t even imagine the world without it.
Scaling is a joke. I have leveled every zone in the old days. Loved it. Now no matter where i go everything i kill from lvl 1 to 120 levels with my character.

It's ruined. It's just a joke of a game now.
11/09/2018 10:38 PMPosted by Peapöd
11/09/2018 09:04 AMPosted by Snikrot
I just want to point out that my ilvl 346 Fury Warrior just jumped into the middle of a large group of mobs (I counted 12 dead bodies when I was done) and came out with full health.

Again, I'm not seeing the problem. My guy's ilvl isn't even high.


That might be true for a fury warrior but the other 90% of players are struggling to stay alive in BfA.
No. This is nonsense. No one I talk to in game is having any problem with quest mobs. Mostly we race to get tags in before they die. The only people who even say they have problems are here in the forums, and I swear I think most of you are trolling. There cannot be that many of you so bad at the game that you can't survive against the easiest content in the game.
Nope, scaling is one of the more garbage ideas (topped only by CRZ) to come from the lazy dev team.

It's basically like having your workload mean nothing, because no matter how much you complete, nothing really gets done.

11/09/2018 12:59 AMPosted by Metrohaha
A lot of the core problems people bring up are pshyological tricks on your own mind, and this is certainly one of them. Look at fact or compile your own data to see that even though it "feels" a certain way, the reality contrasts it.


In other words...

...you think it's broken but it isn't.

/facepalm

You know what isn't perception?

That the metrics across the board are falling because of the cheap gimmicks like scaling, and the fact that actiblizz is literally counting on the next iteration of candy crush to bail them out.

No really, the head of actiblizz said that. It was during the most recent interveie about the walloping they took after their most recent quarterly report and the diablow fiasco.

As Lore would say...


A bunch of stuff that would get normal people banned from here?

:P

11/09/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Kahless
I don’t particulalrly enjoy trivial content, so scaling is a pretty good concept for me.


Ah, so by the time you're fighting whatever planet ending threat is at the end of the bfa...

...you still enjoy getting ganked by boars in Elwynn?

Good to know you hate progression in your rpg.

11/09/2018 06:04 AMPosted by Warpstone
Yes, i hate it. it's the worst thing idea blizzard ever came up with.


No, that was putting watcher in charge of wow...or letting metzen write the wow "movie." It's a tossup.

11/09/2018 07:10 AMPosted by Krayzee
As you are getting stronger, the evil in the world is also getting stronger to counter your goal of ridding all of Azeroth's evil forces.


I never realized the boars in Elwynn had a formal training ground. Do they also get invisible weapons and armor?

Honestly, I think most of this is just a parroting issue, as I refuse to believe even the best players never struggled to kill outdoor quest mobs.


Fixed it for you!

11/09/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Metrohaha
Second of all, what you are describing with lower levels being more powerful is not related to scaling of any sort, certainly not item level scaling.


Except that they're higher levels than they used to be, which is a direct result of scaling. Go back to an old zone, and you'll find the mobs at the max level for the what it scales to, not what the zone was previously (trust me it makes a difference, unless you vastly out level it). I'm not sure if you didn't know that was the case, or if you're deliberately not telling the truth here.

But, as someone pointed out:

11/09/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Metrohaha
Let's clear up some misconceptions here, because there seems to be a LOT of them in this thread. I worry how many people actually know what is even being discussed here as they are discussing it!


You might want to start with your own "facts..."

11/09/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Beaupeep
Sure, those of us that have seen these stories probably just want to level an alt quickly for whatever our purposes, but Blizz is looking at retaining new people rather losing them after a one month sub.

We aren't the target market for level scaling.


Which is the total opposite of a basic business principle:

It takes twice as much energy to get a new customer as it does to keep an existing one.

Probably explains why their last quarterly report was so bad, and why they hope the next candy crush is going to save actiblizz rather than improving the quality in any of their existing products...
I don’t enjoy scaling by ilvl. I’m confused how/why it’s a thing. Not outleveling a zone before you finish quests? I’m a fan. I don’t like loss of character power from L110-120, though... Imagine if artifacts stayed in only at L110. There would be no reason to level..
cameback to wow after some time to try this new xpac....I killed an Alliance mage lvl 120 when I was a shaman lvl 115, she attacked first while I was questing, I knew something was wrong, a lvl 115 killing a level 120 and she got the advantage by attacking first??
I didn't get excited , actually I got mad because when I got to level 120 I can't kill anyone in 1v1 as an elemental shaman.

The point is not that elemental shaman sucks (which everyone knows and that is why we are getting buffs in 8.1) , or that I suck (I am rusty) , the thing is that it doesn't feel like progression, I thought I was gonna destroy people at level 120 but here I am , complaining about elemental shamans every day lol
I see green post are just Blizzard workers trying to justify everything lol, they never have a negative comment, they just try to crow control failed ideas.
11/09/2018 04:10 PMPosted by Olak
Funny thing about this scaling.....

....there are times it comes in handy when I need to have a consistently strong levelling experience every time I'm questing...

...then you got the times I have to kill this tough quest boss and he scales with me so I can't outlevel him/her like I could in other MMOs.

Other than the fact it makes no sense that my enemies are basically riding on my coattails, I'm neither fully against it or fully for it.

If scaling were optional, we could turn it on for the times it comes in handy, and turn it off for those other times. This is why I would much rather have had something like the mentoring system from EQ2 than forced scaling everywhere.

Right now, there are several quests in Draenor that are marked as solo quests, that pretty much require a group if you try to do them at level (at least on some classes). It's even worse when the quests are phased, so the only way to get a group is if you can find enough people who are all doing the same quest. Some of my characters are having to wait until they are 106 to 108 before they can do those quests because the quest mobs are so over tuned. Funny how I never had any problem doing those quests at level before scaling.
I don't mind level scaling at all. But scaling based on ilvl or other forms of progress don't work for me.

In this current system, a level 120 equipped with the last raid tier from BFA will do about the same as a fresh 120 today against the same bears and spiders in Tiragarde. There's no feeling of power progression there.
11/11/2018 02:59 AMPosted by Barelor
I don't mind level scaling at all. But scaling based on ilvl or other forms of progress don't work for me.

In this current system, a level 120 equipped with the last raid tier from BFA will do about the same as a fresh 120 today against the same bears and spiders in Tiragarde. There's no feeling of power progression there.

I dont think this is exactly the case but yeah, the desire to get gear is gone from me for this reason, it doesnt add much of anything to my character.
I think it will feel better after the xp nerfs go in.

Some stretches feel extremely grindy currently.

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