Dh compared to WW

Monk
DH are SO much better that they were played a TON at Blizzcon and absolutely STEAMROLLED at the highest ranks. Don't understate it. All the high ranked PVP community whine about DH endlessly for good reason. There weren't any windwalkers.

At least DH honor talents give incredibly useful things. WW doesn't even have the option for anything worth a crap.

Regardless of how their complaints are directed. The issue is that DH has many things WW used to have and more, and DH is godlike OP in all ways while WW is completely unviable for an entire season now.
11/09/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Omnipotentjc
11/09/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Sifu
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I disagree, I enjoyed the Legion WW more than any other expansion. The only thing I miss is Chi Explosion.

Doesn’t miss nimble brew, tigereye brew, baseline grapple weapon, instacast healing spheres, expel harm, spinning fire blossom, baseline fort brew, ToD execute, blackoutkick heal or dot, karma being practically unbreakable, doesn’t miss base line fist stun or energizer elixer. But he misses Chi Explosion? I don’t even remember what that did it was so bad. Nice troll guy. 0/10


If im honest I kinda preferred Legion WW I Liked MOP and WOD dont get me wrong but Legion was solid for me. 7.0 was in a rough spot but by 7.2 I could not stop playing the class to the point I almost made a second one for horde side so I could see the story.
I hear a lot of streamers say things like the player base has gotten better over the years. I completely disagree. The game has just gotten so easy that a 3 year old could play it. Ofcourse if people struggled to play MoP or WoD monk or any class for that matter they were going to like legion and bfa things are easy, simple and watered down now.

A huge problem I found in legion was that everybody was the exact same. There was no more individuality to the players. Everyone had the same weapons same talents and same playstyle and the trend has continued in bfa for the most part with classes having their best traits and PvP feeling more scripted then ever before.

Ofcourse bad players are going to like this version of the game better because they are less far away from the best players just because things are so much easier. Not saying these players will actually do goood in the arena or anything but they might be able to be more competitive with things like dps or something.

Is this a bad thing? Absolutely! It’s the age of the participation trophies and they have classes set up the same. If you a turtle that made it to the water with the hero slinging scrolls to protect you, you deserve to be just as good as everyone else. That’s how the game is set up right now. The good players hate it. The bad players love it.

I’m not the best player there is but I would rather be a decent player in a hard game than a decent player at a terribly easy game.

I am not alone on this, people are on the class development forums everyday saying revert to MoP for pretty much every class. Players miss having complex in depth characters that was able to seperate their gameplay from the next Joe blow. Now we have these cookie cutter classes that make it so a 3 year old can preform almost as good as Trill.
DH is the evolved form of WW
11/09/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Zemms
11/09/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Lythra
Chaos Nova is a 2s stun. Darkness also requires an Honor Talent to be 80% dodge, otherwise it's 20%. Imprison is two seconds of CC unless you use an Honor Talent. You complain that Monks have to take things as a talent, yet you complain about at least four of DH's honor talents: Rain from Above, two minute Meta, useful Darkness, and Mana Burn are all Honor Talents. DH's only snare is also on the same tier as Fel Eruption (the 5s stun).

Are DHs a lot better than WW in PvP? Yes. But you're comparing a DH that simultaneously has every talent and Honor Talent to a Monk that's forced to pick talents.


So many things wrong here. In pvp chaos nova is a 4 or 5 second stun and the pvp talent makes darkness a 70% chance to absorb incoming damage. Just saying, maybe know your class before posting. Ww is trash in bfa, dh is a much superior version.

Chaos Nova is a 2s stun. Always. Fel Eruption, a talent on the same tier as Havoc's only slow, is a 4s stun. Maybe fact check before you insult. Havoc is in a much better place than WW, but you're still wrong.
I like Havoc DH. My Brewmaster eats (or is it drinks) them alive.
11/09/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Lythra
11/09/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Zemms
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So many things wrong here. In pvp chaos nova is a 4 or 5 second stun and the pvp talent makes darkness a 70% chance to absorb incoming damage. Just saying, maybe know your class before posting. Ww is trash in bfa, dh is a much superior version.

Chaos Nova is a 2s stun. Always. Fel Eruption, a talent on the same tier as Havoc's only slow, is a 4s stun. Maybe fact check before you insult. Havoc is in a much better place than WW, but you're still wrong.


Chaos nova is a 4 sec stun in pvp.
11/09/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Lythra
11/09/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Zemms
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So many things wrong here. In pvp chaos nova is a 4 or 5 second stun and the pvp talent makes darkness a 70% chance to absorb incoming damage. Just saying, maybe know your class before posting. Ww is trash in bfa, dh is a much superior version.

Chaos Nova is a 2s stun. Always. Fel Eruption, a talent on the same tier as Havoc's only slow, is a 4s stun. Maybe fact check before you insult. Havoc is in a much better place than WW, but you're still wrong.


Chaos nova is a 4 second stun against players, no one takes Master of the Glaive over Fel Eruption unless they are playing double demon hunter, so you're wrong.
11/09/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Lythra
Chaos Nova is a 2s stun. Always. Fel Eruption, a talent on the same tier as Havoc's only slow, is a 4s stun. Maybe fact check before you insult. Havoc is in a much better place than WW, but you're still wrong.

lol comes in thinking hes cool

doesn't even know the duration of his own stun
Yeah and js there is a reason you need to talent for dh snare. If you are fighting a melee a spamable 30 yard range snare that is aoe as well is pretty broken.

I did leaves monks ms out of the list for our utility but how come our tooltip doesn’t say how much healing is reduced anyway?

Arms war says 25% reduced healing right on the tooltip and Assa’s pvp talent deadly brew says 15% healing reduced, although wound poison doesn’t actually give a number but you have to assume it’s higher than deadly brew but for monk how are you supposed to know? In arena my healers aren’t healing significantly more than my opponents? How do I know it even works?
About SIN rogue Mortal Strike.

Deadly brew makes them passively apply MS at a base of 15%
Master poisoner, which is a somewhat viable talent but less bursty, makes it 18%
I believe Wound Poison is 25 percent
Wound poison + Master Poisoner = 30 percent or something like that.

Those numbers on wound and wound w/master might be bit off but its something like that.

All of it is on all the time and passive. Just like Rogue snare.
I don't PvP, but I'll everyone's word for it. I'm sorry. That was my mistake. It made no sense to me that Chaos Nova would be a 4s stun when DH are already as strong as they are, it's nowhere in the tooltip, and Fel Eruption exists as a 4s stun. Does Leg Sweep also have a longer duration in PvP?
11/10/2018 06:50 AMPosted by Lythra
I don't PvP, but I'll everyone's word for it. I'm sorry. That was my mistake. It made no sense to me that Chaos Nova would be a 4s stun when DH are already as strong as they are, it's nowhere in the tooltip, and Fel Eruption exists as a 4s stun. Does Leg Sweep also have a longer duration in PvP?


Yes legsweep does but it used to be a 5 second stun in a 45 sec CD and we also used to have a second stun.

Now it is a 1 min CD and if we spec into it, it’s 50 sec CD.

If you spec into nova it’s a 40 sec cd.
PvE wise I miss legion, specifically Legion using legendary boots.

2 chi FoF is just where it should be, satisfying and leaves ample opportunity to get out your strongest ability at the right moment.

3 chi SCK with unlimited cap was amazing, offered an interesting gameplay and instant reward with high damage depending on the targets you could tag. a 5 cap stack is a watered down version of what was so fun about WW. Change for change sake isn't always good. This is a huge reason WW's feel like they have no place, SCK was nerfed damage and gameplay wise extremely and without warning into BFA. I remember getting a beta invite towards the end, logging in and thinking that my SCK stacks were bugged, I even reported it as a bug...

Plain and simple fist of the white tiger needs to be baseline, there's just not enough going on without it.

I wish Healing elixers would return as a talent option, I miss having a decent heal.

I wish the cd on transfer would come down to 30 seconds, I'm forever pressing it thinking it will save me but it's on cd.

I do however like BFA's talent tree far more, gives at least some different choices.
What even is Fist of the White Tiger.

That ability feels so boring and bland for a talent honestly. It has such a huge cooldown and it does almost zero damage. It generates 3 chi whooopdie doooo.

I get that it's on our *resource generation* tier.

It's pretty freaking lame though and yes, I use it because it's better than the other lame options.

It's kind of an insult to the ability who's animation it stole. Like just give us Strike of the Windlord back in it's place and keep the cost/cooldown however it is to balance out the damage and keep it appropriate.

Honestly at this point they could just give us Strike of the Windlord back and it wouldn't be stepping on anyones toes.
11/11/2018 08:34 AMPosted by Ultrios
What even is Fist of the White Tiger.

That ability feels so boring and bland for a talent honestly. It has such a huge cooldown and it does almost zero damage. It generates 3 chi whooopdie doooo.

I get that it's on our *resource generation* tier.

It's pretty freaking lame though and yes, I use it because it's better than the other lame options.

It's kind of an insult to the ability who's animation it stole. Like just give us Strike of the Windlord back in it's place and keep the cost/cooldown however it is to balance out the damage and keep it appropriate.

Honestly at this point they could just give us Strike of the Windlord back and it wouldn't be stepping on anyones toes.


This fist of the white tiger sucks so bad. I would never use it. It should legit replace tigerpalm because it simply doesn’t do enough and every time it is on CD and I have no energy. I regret having it. I will never use this talent specially since this reverse harm is coming even more of a reason to not choose it.
11/09/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Lythra
11/09/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Zemms
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So many things wrong here. In pvp chaos nova is a 4 or 5 second stun and the pvp talent makes darkness a 70% chance to absorb incoming damage. Just saying, maybe know your class before posting. Ww is trash in bfa, dh is a much superior version.

Chaos Nova is a 2s stun. Always. Fel Eruption, a talent on the same tier as Havoc's only slow, is a 4s stun. Maybe fact check before you insult. Havoc is in a much better place than WW, but you're still wrong.


here is the real problem DH has choices WW does not i can see situations where everyone of DH's honor talents could be useful cant really say the same for WW in the current state Thus the reason WW is having EVERY SINGLE HONOR TALENT completely Changed or buffed. PS Chaos nova is also a 4s stun in PVP even though the Tool Tip says 2s, Legsweep is the same way it says 3s but its 5s in pvp.
Even though you don't like fist of the white tiger, Omni, and i don't either much because it does so little damage.

Mathematically and resource/damage wise i still believe it is your best choice. It's a part of your resource generation and i think it is the best option on the tier.

Yes, it's sad that it replaces SotWL and uses that animation and we don't have it anymore. BUT It's still better than ascension or energizing elixir imho.

Elixir feels horrid on the GCD, and ascension scales with haste and is mathematically inferior and passive.
11/12/2018 06:09 AMPosted by Ultrios
Even though you don't like fist of the white tiger, Omni, and i don't either much because it does so little damage.

Mathematically and resource/damage wise i still believe it is your best choice. It's a part of your resource generation and i think it is the best option on the tier.

Yes, it's sad that it replaces SotWL and uses that animation and we don't have it anymore. BUT It's still better than ascension or energizing elixir imho.

Elixir feels horrid on the GCD, and ascension scales with haste and is mathematically inferior and passive.


We need to stop looking at FotWT as a replacement for SotWL, its not it was added in to have the likeness of it but in all rational it was added in to be a competitor in our resource tree. we lost SotWL and got nothing to compensate for it, they were upset that energizing elixir had like a 93% pick rate so they nerfed it from full resource gain and added in FotWT. its kinda the entire story of WW they just took things away from us going into BFA and never actually tallied things up on what was being removed.
I’ve considered using it on like mages and stuff where I’m not always going to connect too or have to kite.

But I still run into those moments of not enough energy and I think well crap this no good. I don’t like down time. Makes the game feel terrible for me. Which is why I find feral so hard to play. Even hate assass for the same reason. And sub in legion... terrible. Outlaw is nerfed into the ground. I face an outlaw on my monk and I double his damage. I don’t like that.

White tiger fist barely does more than a blackout kick and it’s a 10 minute cooldown. I don’t think it’s as good as assension because in those moments of not enough energy with fotwt you wouldn’t have had that and woulda had potentially 4 or 5 more attacks because of it.

If I feel like runnin serenity and xuen I just drop chi wave for eye of tiger and I still run out of energy. No way fotwt is actually any good.

And for dps in pve do I think fotwt is better? Helll to the no. In every dungeon I do my overall damage is the highest I run wdp and chi wave and I never have downtime keeping up my hitcombo.

Fist of white tiger sucks for pretty much everything in my opinion. I can think of situations where it good be good, but when I actually use it. I hate it.

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