An odd thought on class balance

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
Would people be complaining like they are if mythic + did not exist?
Yup. It’s been a complaint long before mythic plus
Mythic + is basically 5v5 or 3v3 except with NPCS.

Yes.
Yes. Balance matters in PvP and mythic raiding as well.
Yes, but a little less so. I'm sure the dev team can better balance classes with raids in mind, but this particular Dev team has done an particularly terrible job.
I honestly think that trying to balance for PVE and PVP is the most detrimental fractionation of the game
I understand there will always be complaining about balance. My bigger point was would you see complaints about certain comps being too good or specs sucking because they aren't wanted in mythic +
11/10/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Sybille
I understand there will always be complaining about balance. My bigger point was would you see complaints about certain comps being too good or specs sucking because they aren't wanted in mythic +


This boils down to how utility is distributed throughout the game. If you walk back to the early days of arena, rogue + mage was the highest damage and control you could have in 2s and they dominated. There were plenty of complaints about balance then.

If no one had unique utility (broadly speaking) we could build groups in certain arrangements. The only specs with a mass grip, for example, are both tanks. If even a single dps spec had this utility, you would be able to have that in your group without those two.

Look at aoe snares: dnd, frost mage, fury warrior, earthbind and a much weaker version on typhoon. You see no posts about snarling because it's available from a variety of classes. Not saying everyone needs everything, but exclusivity breeds imbalance.
Well yeah, as other people said there are other things in the game that preceded M+.

M+ is just a special case because it interferes with other PvE content in terms of balancing.

But balance is typically at its worst point at the start of an expansion, and we are still at the start of BfA. It starts to work itself out as the patches come.

It’s a result of them reworking classes and resetting stats every expansion. Some specs become weaker because they no longer have enough Haste, Crit or Mastery and then others are naturally weak from being undertuned or having abilities removed/replaced.
There are several categories of complaints about classes:

1) A spec doesn't do enough damage of a certain type; AoE, Two Target, Single Target.

This complaint comes primarily from raids and M+, but it is still relevant in PvP. If a specs separation of damage categories occurred more organically rather than forced by counter-intuitive spec mechanics, it would likely be much less of a complaint.

Overall DPS is actually better tuned than it ever has been, with only a couple specs still left out in the cold.

2) Classes in general feel incomplete as an interface with the game world; lacking complexity, situational abilities, and depth.

This comes from three stages of pruning. It affects all classes and all specs, regardless of content.

3) Certain classes, and more specifically specs have insufficient utility to be competitive.

This affects everything, but it affects M+ and PvP the most. If I include in this category a specs ability to do SOME form of mobile damage (as I should) than this also includes raids.

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All three of these need to be addressed directly and would exist with or without M+. M+ is just another area of the game that shines a light on these issues.
You're missing the fourth issue, which can be huge. Lack of survivability. Some classes, both in PvP and PvE simply lack the tools to survive as well as others.
11/10/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Majyka
You're missing the fourth issue, which can be huge. Lack of survivability. Some classes, both in PvP and PvE simply lack the tools to survive as well as others.
I think staying alive is a part of utility. It includes taking less damage (actively or passively) and/or movement abilities. For instance, is Blink or Demonic Circle utility? I think so. They are certainly in the "stay alive" category.

Perhaps it should be a separate category of complaint, but it doesn't generally seem to be when I read "complaint" posts.

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