Today's Story Thread: RIGHT & WRONG CHOICES

Wyrmrest Accord
Yes, I made this thread. Yes, it's that time of week/month. Yes, I'm bored.

I didn't make this thread to complain, though I welcome all complaints and circular discussions from past threads to continue here <3

I'm genuinely interested in how any of you feel about this:

Your choice made to back either Sylvanas or Saurfang will play out over the story and you will find out if you are right or wrong.


Do you want to be put in a position where you (or your character), can be "wrong"? Is this appropriate for an MMO? Is it exciting?

On a meta/personal level: we can guess how they will handle Sylvanas. I personally see a few "major" ways it can go:
- Raid Boss
- Goes Rogue, staying alive and part of the narrative but no longer a faction leader
- Is Redeemed and either stays a faction leader or goes rogue

On a character level:
- You side with X and it was the "right" choice
- You side with X and it was the "wrong" choice
- Both = character/RP repercussions

Full Recent Alex Afrasiabi Story Stuff:

- Having a divided fanbase for a character is a lot more interesting than a one-sided, clearly the right direction path.

- The goal was to create enough plausible deniability in the actions Sylvanas has committed where she can still have a fanbase.

- Alex says that her actions are not necessarily out of character as she has been a driving force for many questionable decisions, such as the blight, over the years.

- He refers to the Wrathgate as being under Sylvanas's orders...?

- Your choice made to back either Sylvanas or Saurfang will play out over the story and you will find out if you are right or wrong.

- For the moment, Sylvanas seems to be too well liked to simply kill off.

- The developerbase and Alex are all fans of Sylvanas as well and making her a raid boss would be a bit of a let down.

- There is a lot more to Sylvanas's story that hasn't been told yet.
11/13/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Sef
- He refers to the Wrathgate as being under Sylvanas's orders...?


I think I've seen before that it was implied she wanted it to happen or knew it was going to happen and didn't do anything to stop it. Maybe thats all head canon and drawing conclusions but I'm sure there is some quest text somewhere.

11/13/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Sef
Do you want to be put in a position where you (or your character), can be "wrong"? Is this appropriate for an MMO? Is it exciting?


The Horde has been wrong plenty of times, and the players don't have a say in it at all. I don't think giving the player character an abundance of agency would be good, because this isn't a single player campaign and multiple endings will only muddy the already dirty canon. But, at least here where the choices seem to be either good (Saurfang) or bad (Sylvanas), giving us the option to choose seems better than just bearing witness to whatever comes next.

However, we can also assume that because we are being given this choice, there won't be a scenario dolled out where either side will find justification..... or the player character will just be absolved of any right or wrongdoing, which is effectively the same thing.

There's been a lot of talk about surprises- the least surprising thing would be for Sylvanas to be redeemed or become a raid boss, and by that extension, for Saurfang supporters to feel ashamed by their lack of loyalty or justified for their willingness to stand for what is right. That's too black and white, and when it comes to dividing the player base, something tells me Blizzard won't take the route where they tell half the Horde "Sorry guys, you didn't get it right this time. At least you got a cool toy though, right?"

So, choice is good, but the kinds of choice we can be offered in an MMO are shallow and ultimately meaningless.

From a non-critical lense though I think it's cool.
I've played SWTOR so the idea of being wrong doesn't bother me. It's not like it'll permakill your character.

If anything, I'm surprised that Blizzard is willing to implement something like this. Right and wrong tend to be portrayed heavyhandedly, if not consistently. (Everyone knew Illidan was "supposed" to be in the right, for instance.)
I think being wrong is perfectly fine. It's all really up to Blizzard on how they implement it. I have sort of two polarized thoughts on the choice to side with Saurfang or Sylvanas.

One is that they already planned to make Sylvanas redeemable, because making a change like that to the quest would be really dangerous if their whole plan was for her to be Garrosh'd. It's possible they had something that aligned with it, so they felt comfortable giving players this choice.

The other is that they're flying by the seat of their pants and threw that in to placate the masses and that they are really working overtime to come up with a whole new direction to the game's story ever since. And that might explode in their faces when they've written themselves into a hole, which is a lot more likely given Sylvanas's far more heinous than usual acts.

I really want it to be the first one, but the cynic in me says its the second. However, I think this is a lot better than just railroading us into rebelling. I really want to see more choices available in the game, Skyrim style. Maybe not world changing, but plot elements that can give us branch off of quests. It would really add to the RPG part of the game which I would love.

It would be awesome to be able to choose to do bad guy things as a warlock, then see the consequences unfold, or to be able to really experience a death knight's need to cause suffering by doing something bad. Heck, it would even be gratifying to play a paladin and have the chance to stand up for what you believe in, even if other players won't. When all this dust settles at the end of the expansion, I really hope they try to keep going with this. I know from a manpower level it would be way too hard to design a choice for each quest, but I can dream, can't I?

And, just as a side, I think it would offer a new level of replayability to the game when leveling alts, another big win.
Interesting stuff. When he says:

Your choice made to back either Sylvanas or Saurfang will play out over the story and you will find out if you are right or wrong.

I didn't take that to mean morally right or wrong, rather literally right or wrong. Like, if you're convinced Sylvanas is going to be a raid boss, and she isn't, then you're wrong. But, she's off the rails, so even though you're wrong you're still right. 0_0

Really it's just a wrong guess against a narrative you can't make meaningful predictions for so who cares.

And I guess many of us will have alts to do both choices while wildly speculating the story's next turn.

Now where is the Alliance's choice?? There shouldn't be disparity in this, if patch 8.1 brings a choice for the Horde it should also for the Alliance.
I think it would be interesting if they are handling the faction war by breaking the factions into multiple groups. I don't see how otherwise you will be able to unite Sylvanas and Saurfang followers.

I could see the start of this Alliance side with Night Elves and Worgen leaving the Alliance high and dry in Zandalar and Kul Tiras to handle the Darkshore.
Blizzard said early on in the expansion that they were planning on changing the way the factions interact and function. Whether that means they're doing away with the faction system entirely and replacing it with a mercenary system a la structured PVP, or keeping the factions and changing them in some way (more likely scenario) I can't really say.

Either way, the choices that are being given to Horde players seem like they're leading up to that change in one way or another. The end result will be the same I think, but which side you chose could paint how you decide to interact with the faction(s) in future expansions.

Maybe.
I don't see the main factions Alliance and Horde going away, especially from a game play perspective. Yet a thematic divide within them I could see happening, basically an Aldor and Scryer like system. I can choose Sylvanas, my friend can choose Saurfang but we can still be in the same guild, same BGs, raids and etc regardless of what you choose. Yet thematically you're this or that but it doesn't matter cuz I'm also pessimistic that most games that offer choice it's really just an illusion and none of it matters.

Then again who knows, perhaps Blizzard drops factions altogether and BGs, raids and whatever are meaningless and I can finally join Picks and Pints on Versca.

On a meta/personal level: we can guess how they will handle Sylvanas. I personally see a few "major" ways it can go:
- Raid Boss
- Goes Rogue, staying alive and part of the narrative but no longer a faction leader
- Is Redeemed and either stays a faction leader or goes rogue

Why not all of the above?
Raid boss that is redeemed through subsequent events during the raid but then she goes rogue because we show her the errors she has made and now Sylvannas is really embarrassed by it all and runs away.

I actually like the idea of Sylvannas going rogue and players can opt to go rogue with her.
Perhaps they will lead up to an Anduin or Jaina thing, too, with the whole Calia issue? Or actually a Tyrande split is more likely with Anduin punking out on Darkshore... hmm...
It's a very interesting mechanic and especially glaring that the Alliance has no equivalent.
Anduin is working with Saurfang. I imagine Tyrande and Malfurion as well as Jaina are not going to be happy with him helping to establish the old Horde especially since it would be their shamans helping light the tree. His peace at all costs will run against their desires.
11/13/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Enekie
It's a very interesting mechanic and especially glaring that the Alliance has no equivalent.


Because our leaders are paragons of righteousness and virtue and can do no wrong.

*Tyrande pulls an Illidan*

Can do no wrong.
11/13/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Hinon
Anduin is working with Saurfang. I imagine Tyrande and Malfurion as well as Jaina are not going to be happy with him helping to establish the old Horde especially since it would be their shamans helping light the tree. His peace at all costs will run against their desires.


We can all imagine all we want. Historically, it doesn't work like that. The Horde enjoys certain privileges that aren't afforded to the Alliance except at much later dates. That's not a slam on Horde players, just the reality of a developer that refuses to break from its norms.

You're essentially gambling on an interesting idea against years and years of precedent. Precedent, which, BfA has embraced wholeheartedly.
It really should be happening in parallel, there shouldn't even be a single patch delay. If they believe in the concept, give it to both sides.

They're not, of course, unless they pull some change right before 8.1 hits.
11/13/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Enekie
The Horde enjoys certain privileges that aren't afforded to the Alliance except at much later dates.


If anything, this is a gift to Horde players who don't like the way the story is going and need a way to alienate themselves from it. I suppose you could say that's a privilege, but it's an odd one for Alliance players to be envious of.

At this point, the character creation screen should inquire whether you like stability and virtue in your storyline, or haphazard rage and indiscriminate questionable morality.
11/13/2018 07:18 PMPosted by Sef
It really should be happening in parallel, there shouldn't even be a single patch delay. If they believe in the concept, give it to both sides.

They're not, of course, unless they pull some change right before 8.1 hits.


This, by the way, is another example of how the Horde favoritism benefits its players, as was requested of me by Cailias long ago.
11/13/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Topsail

If anything, this is a gift to Horde players who don't like the way the story is going and need a way to alienate themselves from it. I suppose you could say that's a privilege, but it's an odd one for Alliance players to be envious of.

At this point, the character creation screen should inquire whether you like stability and virtue in your storyline, or haphazard rage and indiscriminate questionable morality.


Being gifted unique content mechanics to make certain that every player is happy isn't a special privilege?
I don't see how having a shallow choice between two crappy characters is 'Horde favoritism.'

I'm sure many Horde players are envious of the general stability the Alliance enjoys.

Alliance leadership has disagreements, yes, but they are handled much more realistically than the Horde's.
11/13/2018 07:24 PMPosted by Enekie
11/13/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Topsail

If anything, this is a gift to Horde players who don't like the way the story is going and need a way to alienate themselves from it. I suppose you could say that's a privilege, but it's an odd one for Alliance players to be envious of.

At this point, the character creation screen should inquire whether you like stability and virtue in your storyline, or haphazard rage and indiscriminate questionable morality.


Being gifted unique content mechanics to make certain that every player is happy isn't a special privilege?


Did I say it wasn't?

You certainly wouldn't find me jumping through hoops to get stabbed in the gut three times only so that I could be given a consolatory bandaid. The choice is a reaction to players not liking being evil, and on top of that, whatever people choose likely won't have any impact on the story anyways. Those lines have already been written. This is a side show.
11/13/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Topsail

Did I say it wasn't?

You certainly wouldn't find me jumping through hoops to get stabbed in the gut three times only so that I could be given a consolatory bandaid. The choice is a reaction to players not liking being evil, and on top of that, whatever people choose likely won't have any impact on the story anyways. Those lines have already been written. This is a side show.


That's neat and all, but it doesn't remove the central fact that the Horde is receiving access to mechanics that the Alliance is being denied. Regardless of the quality or the magnitude of this choice, Blizzard is making an extra effort to make Horde players happy and not giving the Alliance the same benefit.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum