We have zero idea what your intent is...for anything

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11/14/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Velara
The devs seem to spend more time on Twitter than on these forums.

How exactly, do you think this will improve on the new forums? Serious question.

Nobody is arguing that they f***** up with the feedback on this expansion. That's a deader horse than PF argument. But if you expect something to continually fail, it won't let you down in that regard.

Community needs to get over it too, and move toward better change. Holding grudges won't solve anything, and will cultivate the current sentiment that remaining silent is better because no matter what they say we're gonna roast them alive.
11/14/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Dvis
11/14/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Velara
The devs seem to spend more time on Twitter than on these forums.

How exactly, do you think this will improve on the new forums? Serious question.

Nobody is arguing that they f***** up with the feedback on this expansion. That's a deader horse than PF argument. But if you expect something to continually fail, it won't let you down in that regard.

Community needs to get over it too, and move toward better change. Holding grudges won't solve anything, and will cultivate the current sentiment that remaining silent is better because no matter what they say we're gonna roast them alive.

I've also seen players here openly pushing the "Of course I'm trying to ruin wow, it's about sending a message and getting them to change behavior".. except.. I heard that same line 12 years ago too.

All it results in is players coming and going who just want to cause problems for everyone else, year after year.
11/14/2018 10:54 AMPosted by Dubknight
When are you going to make WW fun to play again?

When can I finally just use my defensive as a defensive and not something I need to waste in order to be competitive dps?

Legion WW was amazing and perfect. If you thought it was too strong, numerical nerfs would have been fine. Gameplay/fun nerfs were the wrong way to go.
You're not getting answer because you're not doing it right. You need to start your questions like this: "Dear Unky Blizz" ;)
11/14/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Solarwynds
"Dear Unky Blizz" ;)

Sounds like the bad uncle who's always alone in the corner at family reunions.
Yikes.
11/14/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Velara
11/14/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Talestra
...

The real question is, are you willing to put that sentence to a test and see what happens? I wouldn't.

Some player posing as a crazed veteran spawned a number of threads intended (by him) to antagonize people. Instead. they mostly ridiculed him. I notice those are gone today.
They were gone within hours. I am not sure of your point unless you were just giving an anecdote to reinforce Talestra's post.
11/14/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Dvis
11/14/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Solarwynds
"Dear Unky Blizz" ;)

Sounds like the bad uncle who's always alone in the corner at family reunions.
Yikes.
He's not as bad as he sounds. Unky Jerrold though....
11/14/2018 10:54 AMPosted by Dubknight
When are you going to make WW fun to play again?

When can I finally just use my defensive as a defensive and not something I need to waste in order to be competitive dps?

Legion WW was amazing and perfect. If you thought it was too strong, numerical nerfs would have been fine. Gameplay/fun nerfs were the wrong way to go.


This is what every monk is thinking but they refuse to fix our class, instead they’ll nerf us more.
11/14/2018 12:52 PMPosted by Snowfox
11/14/2018 12:44 PMPosted by Smadinker
Since WoD Blizzard has claimed to want to improve their communication but has shown little to no interest in actually putting those words into action.

On the contrary, we're soon getting new forums that should help a great deal with that - by stamping down hard on the trolls who've been disrupting that communication.

That has to happen first, otherwise it's just blues trying to post while the usual hater piranhas troll and derail.


Do you seriously believe that the reason this company lacks so hard in communication is due to trolls? Come on. Supposedly there is a whole team that works on moderation for the forum, maybe they should fix that team while they are fixing the new forum.
11/14/2018 01:26 PMPosted by Smadinker
Do you seriously believe that the reason this company lacks so hard in communication is due to trolls? Come on. Supposedly there is a whole team that works on moderation for the forum, maybe they should fix that team while they are fixing the new forum.

Maybe Snowpox is just commenting on the side the community can affect? Can't control the Blizzard end of things.

But just as its incredulous to believe that lack of communication is due to trolls ONLY, it's just as bad to believe it's all Blizzard's fault and not also on us. Both sides are to blame, and both sides need to effect change to make things better.
11/14/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Velara
Well, patch notes still exist and get put out with every patch and hotfix.

I'm not really sure Blizzard is supposed to tell everyone how they are supposed to play each piece of content. Isn't that for the players to view and evaluate themselves?

They've been pretty clear with class balance and working on some of the weaker specs.

The reality is every spec is able to clear all the content in this game and do pretty well. What happens is people tunnel vision into what the absolute best is and them turn into Ricky Bobby.

Answer: Yes, we are supposed to be able to decide for yourself.

But Blizzard has put the game on a rail and time-locked, gated, removed all the fun stuff and makes you do your chores first. That's why servers are so empty.

Not only is there nothing fun or interesting to do, but Bilzzard wants you to do it all before you can have fun.


Servers are not empty. Try something else.
11/14/2018 08:57 AMPosted by Argorwal
'm not really sure Blizzard is supposed to tell everyone how they are supposed to play each piece of content. Isn't that for the players to view and evaluate themselves?
if any of this was left to the players we wouldn't have pathfinder imho. but we do.. so ya blizz needs to tell us what they want us to do pretty much on anything
11/14/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Kirela
Methinks everyone besides the occasional mod is on vacation after blizzcon.

I disagree. By all appearances there has only been a skeleton crew working on this expansion since the start of the beta. Most of them must have been pulled off to work on higher priority projects.
11/14/2018 01:35 PMPosted by Dvis
11/14/2018 01:26 PMPosted by Smadinker
Do you seriously believe that the reason this company lacks so hard in communication is due to trolls? Come on. Supposedly there is a whole team that works on moderation for the forum, maybe they should fix that team while they are fixing the new forum.

Maybe Snowpox is just commenting on the side the community can affect? Can't control the Blizzard end of things.

But just as its incredulous to believe that lack of communication is due to trolls ONLY, it's just as bad to believe it's all Blizzard's fault and not also on us. Both sides are to blame, and both sides need to effect change to make things better.

Oh there's definitely some fault on both sides.

The blues, imho, should have moved sooner on cleaning things up here.

.. but, it's on the trolls and hateraiders for making such a mess to clean up.
11/14/2018 01:47 PMPosted by Snowfox
11/14/2018 01:35 PMPosted by Dvis
...
Maybe Snowpox is just commenting on the side the community can affect? Can't control the Blizzard end of things.

But just as its incredulous to believe that lack of communication is due to trolls ONLY, it's just as bad to believe it's all Blizzard's fault and not also on us. Both sides are to blame, and both sides need to effect change to make things better.

Oh there's definitely some fault on both sides.

The blues, imho, should have moved sooner on cleaning things up here.

.. but, it's on the trolls and hateraiders for making such a mess to clean up.


You make it sound like forum moderators have a complicating job and that they have years worth of work ahead of them. If trolls were killing Blizzards pretend communication they could have simply banned/suspended them from the forum, it's really that easy. lol
11/14/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Smadinker
You make it sound like forum moderators have a complicating job and that they have years worth of work ahead of them.

Well there certainly seems to be a high burnout and attrition rate.

If trolls were killing Blizzards pretend communication they could have simply banned/suspended them from the forum, it's really that easy. lol

I think they probably will be, increasingly.

Things don't happen suddenly though.. and it takes time to get hundreds of thousands of players to realize they can't just spamtroll haterade here like before. The sort of community groupmind about it has to realize that at the macro level.

I'm patient though. What's another year or fifty thousand posts?
11/14/2018 01:03 PMPosted by Snowfox
11/14/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Velara
How exactly, do you think this will improve on the new forums? Serious question.

Increased moderation, trust levels, more accurate reporting.

The primary problem we have right now - is that the blues don't really want to post, because the trolls just come in flaming and disrupting and causing noise, making it impossible for actual communication about actual complaints to occur.

So before we can get that good communication with the blues back, we need to deal with that noise problem and make it where regular players can communicate with the blues without the piranha frenzies.

"trust levels"? I don't even know what that means, unless you're referring to Blizzard's name for its forum citizen classifications. Not exactly a two way street, I would have thought.

Subjective is subjective. You regard my criticism of the game and terrible decisions regarding the game as "hateful") so I guess by your standards, I would be a troll?

Or, will these new forums impose an objective standard of trollhood, specifying what is and is not considered "trolling?"

BTW Snow, have you visited the HoTS or OW forums? There doesn't appear to be much better communication there (or fewer trolls) than on any other forums including this one. So I am not certain it will be the forum paradise you think it will be. Let's just say, I don't think players' opinions of the game in its present state will change much. I am cautiously optimistic that players will continue to have the liberty to express themselves openly. "Trust levels" may artificially affect that discourse, imho.
I remember when warlocks were a really fun class to play, based on the feedback from that 1 Blizzard employee who kept in touch with the community. (think he "left" the company). Can't recall his name.

To get classes fun and engaging again blizzard need more people like him. It won't happen though.
11/14/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Snowfox

Critical has give and take. It has constructive feedback ideally, or at least some balance between what's good and bad. I haven't seen that from you, solely hate - pure hate towards blizzard and the game.


That's incorrect, actually.

Insisting that only comments that praise Blizzard are "constructive" is actually a fairly common fallacy people use to dismiss all criticism. And demands for comments on how to improve the game is also fallacious, since it can be easily countered with "well, that doesn't really work for all people," thus creating this rather elegant paradox where all criticism of Blizzard is inherently hateful in the eyes of its most stalwart defenders because it's not constructive, but also rejecting constructive criticism out of hand because it's not nice.

There's nothing hateful about holding Blizzard to account for poor choices. There's nothing hateful about voicing criticism. If anything, struggling to protect Blizzard and shout down criticism is ultimately more harmful to the game, since it prevents Blizzard from realizing when they've messed up.
11/14/2018 04:27 PMPosted by Velara
"trust levels"? I don't even know what that means, unless you're referring to Blizzard's name for its forum citizen classifications. Not exactly a two way street, I would have thought.
It's a system for the new forums. Behavior and number of posts read increase your "Trust level" and does things like reduce the timer between posts(supposedly being increased to an hour for trust 0) and allow you to post images and have a signature.

In other words, they're adding a rep grind to the forums.
11/14/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Mvura
11/14/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Varrow
I think you're taking this whole "give the game mystery" thing a bit far. How are we supposed to know what the game is for, if you never tell us?


Is there something you have a question about?

This seems like an aimless rant. What's driving your rant? You aren't telling us.


Lord save us from the likes of the Cherry Picker Mvura!

When attributing it is customary NOT to quote them out of context such that the intent or meaning of the quote changes with you attribution.

They (the OP) gave us, what to me were very specific areas of communication that Blizzard is failing in. Areas of communication Blizzard by rights should be doing as naturally as if breathing but instead we have people such as yourself who chime in with entirely misplaced attribution or cherry picked content to belie the fact that Blizzard's development and/or communication teams are NOT doing their jobs very well.

Here are those areas:

11/14/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Varrow
What happened to patch notes?
Where are the explanations of the new features?
Why am I supposed to do them?
Who are they for?
What classes are you happy with?
What are you not happy with?
What are the specs supposed to be good at?


Those are the things that particular customer wants to know about. They seem pretty damn specific. Generalized yes. But they ARE discrete areas of conversation that anyone could give a reasoned answer to. Including even you Mvura.

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