What if the Devs actually tried

General Discussion
10/11/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Lostinwoods
No way. They tried their hardest in Legion, that's the best we're gonna get.
We need young blood.

I think part of the problem is that we have young blood who weren't actually on the team in those expansions. Specifically, the people making the decisions.

And y'know, the fact that they are not autonomous anymore. While they may not answer to Activision or Vivendi, they answer to their shareholders. Having business meetings for weeks to make one change is stupid and that's what's happening according to former big names who left.
10/11/2018 01:13 PMPosted by Espur
10/11/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Lostinwoods
No way. They tried their hardest in Legion, that's the best we're gonna get.
We need young blood.

I think part of the problem is that we have young blood who weren't actually on the team in those expansions. Specifically, the people making the decisions.

And y'know, the fact that they are not autonomous anymore. While they may not answer to Activision or Vivendi, they answer to their shareholders. Having business meetings for weeks to make one change is stupid and that's what's happening according to former big names who left.


That's true. Someone like Jeff K. who made WoTLK the goliath it was has shifted his focus to Overwatch. In a time where FPS' were stale and dead he was able to really make something special there.

I hope he (and people like him) get bored and shift their focus to something new. True vision in the gaming industry seems pretty rare these days.
Do you know what it take to make a game, no less a BIG mmorpg......No?

Then shut up.
You can't just change something out of the blue with it hurting something else. It take time, man power, and lots of talking.
Could Blizz do that, sure. Should they, no.

I do think blizz is stuck in the past though in how they handle stuff. Even through they do QnA on Twitch. I'm talking about in game.
Not this group. Ion and his clique are just too out of touch with the player base.
What if the devs made an expansion completely based around the whims of a single player who would obviously be the greatest and most important player on the face of the planet?
10/11/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Athyra
What if the Devs actually tried to make an expansion as good as TBC/WotLK?

Do you think they could succeed?

Let's say (in this hypothetical) that Activision gave them the freedom to actually make a compelling and fun RPG again. An expansion where they didn't have to pump out garrison follower missions, lame repeatable world quests, world boss piñatas, mobile-quality game turtle quests. An expansion where they actually looked at meaningful class changes so players could have fun playing again. An expansion where they weren't tied to the same formula that has lead to the downfall of modern WoW.

Do you think they could do it?


They did that. It was legion. A lot of people think it was better than BC and Wrath.
10/11/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Toasta
Do you actually think they set out to make a bad game?


Do you actually think people put in 100% here. Really? LOLOLOL. WQ bugging out halfway through...100% effort? Mission table quest...164 azerite with 100% bonus for 4 hours or 320 azerite with o% bonus for 24 hours....still 100% effort ya think? Have you tried the match the figure WQ yet? What is next match the block to the shapes? This is not 100% effort here so not they are not trying to make a bad game as failing at making a good game.
They DID try, and this was the result. I think the original creators of Wow had probably been thinking about the story (or elements of the story) since high school. The content all the way up to Wrath was likely based on it (Warcraft3).

Then after it found success, the corporate suits showed up. You know, people who went to college basically to learn how to hold a coffee cup all day, aka the Bill Lumberghs. They see a cash cow, take out the "craft" and put in an assembly line. Happens to every successful business.

I think if they really cared about Warcraft, they'd create a Warcraft4 or a WoW2. A whole new game which starts on a different planet, where Azeroth has transformed into a Titan, and joins us in battling the void lords. Just new ideas and taking the time and resources to invest in a whole new game.

Instead we get rinse and repeat. World Quests are the new endless Dailies. Azerite the new Legendary weapon. And the story goes no where, basically repeating to the point where it doesn't even make sense anymore. I mean Legion could've been 2 or 3 expansions of fighting Generals and Commanders in this unstoppable army we've hearing about for over a decade, instead it was skipped over so we could go back to the Horde = misunderstood villains trope that's played out ad nauseam.
10/11/2018 01:50 PMPosted by Emt
10/11/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Toasta
Do you actually think they set out to make a bad game?


Do you actually think people put in 100% here. Really? LOLOLOL. WQ bugging out halfway through...100% effort? Mission table quest...164 azerite with 100% bonus for 4 hours or 320 azerite with o% bonus for 24 hours....still 100% effort ya think? Have you tried the match the figure WQ yet? What is next match the block to the shapes? This is not 100% effort here so not they are not trying to make a bad game as failing at making a good game.


Im going to let you revise that abomination of a "paragraph" into something halfway readable before I even attempt a response.
Frankly the current team of devs doesn't have the imagination or creativity to make a good expansion. All they can see are numbers, and that isn't how you make a fun experience.
10/11/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Athyra
What if the Devs actually tried to make an expansion as good as TBC/WotLK?

Do you think they could succeed?

Let's say (in this hypothetical) that Activision gave them the freedom to actually make a compelling and fun RPG again. An expansion where they didn't have to pump out garrison follower missions, lame repeatable world quests, world boss piñatas, mobile-quality game turtle quests. An expansion where they actually looked at meaningful class changes so players could have fun playing again. An expansion where they weren't tied to the same formula that has lead to the downfall of modern WoW.

Do you think they could do it?


This team? Not a chance in hell!
I mean... they're not exactly trying to create a purposefully lackluster expansion. Unless they're knowingly sabotaging production, which I would only believe if Overwatch was doing better than Fortnite.

I think that ultimately though, too much of the original team that made WoW great and cared about the experience has left, and what we have now is a skeleton crew of people who inherited a successful brand and are looking to merely keep it aloft and profitable. It's like a bunch of different creative teams trying to bring a vision to life, except everyone's been given a different blueprint and had their calculators confiscated.
10/11/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Jubearlee
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Sorry, that was very rude of me.

But this is a very inflammatory post: "What if Blizzard tried not to purposefully mess up and create bad things?"

Well I imagine things would be... better? Cool, that's basically the entire thread. There's nothing to really discuss here.


I don't understand the hostility. It's no secret that Blizz/Activision purposefully makes content that increases playtime at the expense of player fun. They talk about this in the Dev Q&A all the time.

I'm simply asking, if they didn't have to do that, could they? Or are they just using that as an excuse?


Shirley, if this is no secret as you claim, you can give us proof showing they do this? I mean real proof too, not some subjective opinion you have based on zero facts.
10/11/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Athyra
10/11/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Cryptdust
Legion and MoP were actually almost as good as Wrath, though Wrath set a high bar.


Wrath did set the bar high*.

Does anyone think the modern WoW devs could ever surpass it? Based on these comments so far, I don't think the community has faith.

Whether or not the community has faith that the devs could create such a mythical beasts isn't really the question. It's whether or not the community would agree on the beast actually produced that's the question. My personal opinion is that MoPs bar was much higher than Wraths, but I know most disagree. So we are going to be stuck with whatever the devs decide to produce, since there isn't a single target community idea they have to aim for.
Legion was pretty good. But as long as we have people who are fanboys rather than devs who are professional individuals, they aren't gonna capture WOTLK back ever.

MoP was crap.
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I don't understand the hostility. It's no secret that Blizz/Activision purposefully makes content that increases playtime at the expense of player fun. They talk about this in the Dev Q&A all the time.

I'm simply asking, if they didn't have to do that, could they? Or are they just using that as an excuse?


Shirley, if this is no secret as you claim, you can give us proof showing they do this? I mean real proof too, not some subjective opinion you have based on zero facts.


Lol. Look no further then Ion and the current dev team completely destroying the Group Finder tool for world quests. More play time = more $.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/7921-Developer-Q-A-Ion-Hazzikostas
10/11/2018 02:03 PMPosted by Fluffergyrl
Whether or not the community has faith that the devs could create such a mythical beasts isn't really the question. It's whether or not the community would agree on the beast actually produced that's the question. My personal opinion is that MoPs bar was much higher than Wraths, but I know most disagree. So we are going to be stuck with whatever the devs decide to produce, since there isn't a single target community idea they have to aim for.
Legion, Wrath, and MoP are close enough in quality that it shouldn't be much of a problem producing an equivalent product.
10/11/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Athyra
What if the Devs actually tried to make an expansion as good as TBC/WotLK?


I was not on the Forums for TBC but I was for Wrath and as I recall Wrath was pure Garbage.
Not my opinion mind you but I did see it posted on the Wrath Forums quite often (in fact it killed WoW) and that must make it true... just like all of the post complaining about BfA.
10/11/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Damiona
10/11/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Athyra
What if the Devs actually tried to make an expansion as good as TBC/WotLK?


I was not on the Forums for TBC but I was for Wrath and as I recall Wrath was pure Garbage.
Not my opinion mind you but I did see it posted on the Wrath Forums quite often (in fact it killed WoW) and that must make it true... just like all of the post complaining about BfA.


http://www.bestial-wrath.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/WOW-Subscriber-Count.png
10/11/2018 03:00 PMPosted by Athyra
10/11/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Damiona
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I was not on the Forums for TBC but I was for Wrath and as I recall Wrath was pure Garbage.
Not my opinion mind you but I did see it posted on the Wrath Forums quite often (in fact it killed WoW) and that must make it true... just like all of the post complaining about BfA.


http://www.bestial-wrath.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/WOW-Subscriber-Count.png


Your point being?

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