Blizzard you FAILED. Worst Class Design in the Game's History. Part II

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FIX THE CLASSES BLIZZARD.
#1 PRIORITY!!!
HEAR OUR WARCRY BLIZZARD!!!

Btw;
Garrosh was our last true Warchief. May the Horde find a true hero in the coming post zombie waifu days.
Bump

I'm a huge advocate of this exact thing, and we all are honestly. Blizzard you need to admit that you were wrong, and put us back where we belong - aka MoP class design, when things were actually based around skill not this watered down moba BS of "build your class".

Sure some things are great, but the amount of pruning and absolute dreadful class design choices has made it impossible to even enjoy the good parts of this game anymore.

I'm sticking around for 8.1, but you're hermoraging subscribers and, news flash, IT'S NOT THE CONTENT THAT'S BAD - IT'S THE CLASSES.
10/27/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Liger
I love a lot of classes in MoP too.

I miss equipping the weapons I WANTED. I want to duel wield on my BrM monk.


You wanna smack kiddos with twin Tankards of Terror too?!
Wish I could Upvote a 1000 times.
What Blizzard doesn't understand is that they don't have to add or remove things. They can just... KEEP ABILITIES. Super difficult.
11/01/2018 09:09 PMPosted by Murdina
All these people who say you can play a spec with 4-6 buttons, that is exaggeration. Lets pick what would be the simplest spec, Vengeance Demon Hunter.

Demon Spikes
Disrupt
Fiery Brand
Immolation Aura
Infernal Strike
Metamorphosis
Shear
Sigil of Flames
Sigil of Chains
Sigil of Misery
Soul Cleave
Spectral Sight
Throw Glaive
Torment
plus Healing Potion

That's 15 keybinds. Also you could take up to 4 clickable PvE talents. Plus up to 4 clickable PvP talents, which would take it up to 23 keybinds.


Oh yes, lets also not forget professions buttons, my 7 mounts i like best, food, flasks, pots, drums (in case no lust class), those toys I use to play with during break in raid (golden banana ftw), my macros to sell profession mats in trade chat, my pull timer, my ready check, runes and my other 4 favorite mounts!

....get a clue. No one uses Meta as part of their rotation. And... You included their interrupt? Lmfao.

Care to comment on how they have one button to generate pain/souls, and one button to spend pain/self heal with those souls? And.... That's the rotation. Since I'm feeling generous, I'll toss in Immo Aura every once in a while when it's up.

Throw Glaive

Spectral Sight

plus Healing Potion


You're @#$&ting me, right? Srsly, just between us, you're @#$&ting me, right?

I'm pretty surprised you forgot to add in
Glide
.

If you think that's fine for class design, you must love playing on an NES controller.
11/01/2018 09:09 PMPosted by Murdina
All these people who say you can play a spec with 4-6 buttons, that is exaggeration. Lets pick what would be the simplest spec, Vengeance Demon Hunter.

Demon Spikes
Disrupt
Fiery Brand
Immolation Aura
Infernal Strike
Metamorphosis
Shear
Sigil of Flames
Sigil of Chains
Sigil of Misery
Soul Cleave
Spectral Sight
Throw Glaive
Torment
plus Healing Potion

That's 15 keybinds. Also you could take up to 4 clickable PvE talents. Plus up to 4 clickable PvP talents, which would take it up to 23 keybinds.


Oh yes, lets also not forget professions buttons, my 7 mounts i like best, food, flasks, pots, drums (in case no lust class), those toys I use to play with during break in raid (golden banana ftw), my macros to sell profession mats in trade chat, my pull timer, my ready check, runes and my other 4 favorite mounts!

....get a clue. No one uses Meta as part of their rotation. And... You included their interrupt? Lmfao.

Care to comment on how they have one button to generate pain/souls, and one button to spend pain/self heal with those souls? And.... That's the rotation. Since I'm feeling generous, I'll toss in Immo Aura every once in a while when it's up.

Throw Glaive

Spectral Sight

plus Healing Potion


You're @#$&ting me, right? Srsly, just between us, you're @#$&ting me, right?

I'm pretty surprised you forgot to add in
Glide
.

If you think that's fine for class design, you must love playing on an NES controller.


You don't get to count your mounts as buttons. Make them a favorite in your book and put the "random favorite mount" button on your bar like everyone else.

But that aside, most specs have 4-6 cooldowns/situational abilities alone. The problem people are having is that a lot of these are similar to what another class has. Homogenization removes individuality and identity.

11/01/2018 01:59 AMPosted by Dubknight
11/01/2018 12:47 AMPosted by Vi
windwalker is currently the worst its ever been since inception. the damage distribution of the spec is so messed up, it makes it so infinitely unfun to play. having so much of our damage tied into TOD+TOK is just inherently unfun. in pve your doing tickle damage outside of TOD/gale burst with abusing good karma talent ( and even with the nerfing its getting the base gameplay of abusing trying to kill yourself to get extra damage is still there, its just the way our only defensive works ) for damage to keep us bouyant on the damage meter. you definitely notice when a windwalker doesnt maximise there keystrokes during TOD or when a target dies early with TOD still ticking down on the target AND when they dont get to abuse TOK.

in pvp this is amplified. if the target can immune dmg or reset there debuffs ( clos, evasion, blade dance, netherwalk, iceblock, bubble, BOP, turtle ( so basically half the classes in the game ) or just plainly get dispelled, a windwalkers damage just disappears completely. and because the entire spec this xpack is built around TOD/TOK for its damage profile, if those 2 moves dont go off, the windwalker is essentially worthless. our base healing is atrocious, our CC is essentially non existent because of the overpruning we got. in pvp TOD and the TOD azerite traits have received multiple nerfs, when it can already be hard countered by half the classes in the game.

in short, blizz need to take damage out of those 2 moves and redistribute it back in rotationally to TP/BOK/RSK/FOF. also considering how completely overshadowed windwalkers are right now in aoe, blizz could also stand to remove the AOE cap on FOF again OR buff mark of the crane stack damage to 20-30% from 10%, OR allow us to gain more stacks past 5. OR give us strike of the windlord baseline.


YES OH MY GOD THANK YOU!

I've been preaching about this for-literally-ever!

All of WWs damage is legit tied up to cooldowns. All of it. Its absolutely garbage to play, it has no standalone damage worth anything (aside from popping Xuen on big trash pulls... yay.... which does nothing for ST >.> And even then, I click one button... and watch my tiger play that pull for me...)

No ToK or ToD = "Lul look at the WWs damage that pull xD"

I hate hate HATE using my ONLY solid defensive CD as a mandatory offensive CD, that can easily get me killed. Why is WW the only one with a CD this stupid?!

I kid you not, in the WW discord we have a stickied list of "Stuff to stand in with ToK that won't kill you". I'm dead serious. What kind of garbage game design requires a list like that, composed entirely by people who play that class? ....wanna know how we found out what made that list, and what didn't?

You can guess.

EVERYONE told me back in BFA pre-patch "Don't worry, no way Blizz let's ToK stay the way it is, it's just the legendary cloak, dude. They'd never let it stay that way, it's entirely stupid lol" or "Naw man, they're just like, balancing classes and stuff for the first raid tier yknow? Uldir isn't even out yet, they've got time to make changes..."

I knew it though... Oh yes. I @#$&ing knew it.


I can't really add anything else. My favorite spec in the game, tied to a stupid CD (and not a short one either). +1 for both of you.
....get a clue. No one uses Meta as part of their rotation. And... You included their interrupt? Lmfao.

Metamorphosis you could mouseclick, since its on 3 minute timer. But mouseclick your interrupt? That doesn't sound like a good idea.

Throw Glaive
Spectral Sight
plus Healing Potion

Throw Glaive is an essential tool for picking up adds. You'll want to have it keybound. Spectral sight I just threw in because if you ever do PvP you'll need it, but you could just have it on a sidebar. I'm not sure if its normal in raiding guilds to have your healing potion keybound, but you could just put it on a sidebar too.

Care to comment on how they have one button to generate pain/souls, and one button to spend pain/self heal with those souls?

That's why I picked it because it has the simplest rotation (perhaps too simple) but theres still 15, okay 12, keybinds, minimum, you'll need to play it.
11/01/2018 11:13 PMPosted by Dubknight
Oh yes, lets also not forget professions buttons, my 7 mounts i like best, food, flasks, pots, drums (in case no lust class), those toys I use to play with during break in raid (golden banana ftw), my macros to sell profession mats in trade chat, my pull timer, my ready check, runes and my other 4 favorite mounts!

....get a clue. No one uses Meta as part of their rotation. And... You included their interrupt? Lmfao.

Care to comment on how they have one button to generate pain/souls, and one button to spend pain/self heal with those souls? And.... That's the rotation. Since I'm feeling generous, I'll toss in Immo Aura every once in a while when it's up.


Well, one, this poster wasn't talking about rotation but about abilities that are important enough for key binding.

Two, a good Vengeance DH is going to have Soul Bomb and use it with Fracture. Immolation Aura helps to generate souls for Soul Bomb and AoE control/damage. Most are going to also be using Sigil of Flame off CD as a DPS boost and picking up mobs.

Good V DH's also have spikes rolling and will use fiery brand to help mitigate large damage spikes. Depending on what you're doing, taking Soul Barrier as your 110 talent gives extra AM on a short CD (Last Resort is nice, but has a long cd for the cheat death effect. Still needs easy access during a fight that demands it, just like Meta). Disrupt and Consume Magic are both important depending on the mob, along with Throw Glaive to pick up extra mobs that are milling around looking at your healer as a light snack. Not to mention abilities like Chains that help with mob control. All of these things should be key bound - which was their point. Yes, the rotation is simple but there are other things going on in the background that require thought and timing. You need these things (and others not listed here) key bound.

Does it hold a candle to what the ability list that say, my Resto Shammy had in MoP and how the spells could play off each other? Nope. But it's not quite as brain dead as people like to pretend it is.

I do agree with the OP of this thread - an upvote for you OP.
upvote for op
I've been away from WoW since the end of 2011 and have been back only 2 - 3 times at 2 months a pop. Recently I came back for what will be 5 months and noticed that the classes are not as fun as I remembered them. I just thought that since I'm older and have played a lot of games since leaving in 2011 that I just don't remember correctly but this post makes me think I was correct.

I don't like that classes are now funneled into a cookie cutter. I prefer classes where I can customize them to fit my playstyle instead of changing my playstyle to fit a class like it is now. I think they started to do that either just before I left or a little after with the skill tree removal.

I for one would prefer more diverse class options that allow me to play different then others of the same class. If they are dumbing down the game then they should have a default option that keeps it simple for those that don't want to tweak their character and a expandable option/button that allows those of us that like to customize.
Combat is too slow waiting on the cooldown. The stat nerf gave me roughly half the crit and a quarter of the haste I had before. And nothing is balanced so it was pointless.
I will say that i really miss Warlocks from back in BC or even WotLK days (fear kiting was so much fun), and hunter just don't make sense to me anymore. Overall, though, i think things are doing okay (but then, i really only play Paladins and Druids).
11/02/2018 03:40 AMPosted by Vanatari

I don't like that classes are now funneled into a cookie cutter. I prefer classes where I can customize them to fit my playstyle instead of changing my playstyle to fit a class like it is now. I think they started to do that either just before I left or a little after with the skill tree removal.


Classes have always been cookie cutter. Even the 41 point tree had certain paths that had to be taken to get the most out of the class. Not to mention that talents to remove .1 second from the cast time of a spell that you could add five point into were lackluster at best.

That being said, i really don't like not having a talent point every level. I really miss that sense of progression, that small reward for achieving another level. Blizz has a lot of people and a crapload of cash coming in every month, surely they could've put more effort into creating interesting talents for every level (my early druid talents just suck (feral, balance or guardian? i'm resto...)).
11/01/2018 09:42 PMPosted by Sokarg
10/27/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Liger
I love a lot of classes in MoP too.

I miss equipping the weapons I WANTED. I want to duel wield on my BrM monk.


You wanna smack kiddos with twin Tankards of Terror too?!


You want to know what's even worse? Windwalker can't use a polearm because Fists of Fury (which doesn't even utilize weapons) requires 1 handers!
OP. Agreed 100%. My perspective is that they have changed the game in such a way that it minimizes the amount of development time it takes to churn out the next expansion.

Here are a couple examples of why I think this.

1. Leveling from 110-120 gave you nothing but rep and story. Not a new spell, skill, talent point....nothing.
2. Professions nothing meaningful there. No depth at all.
3. Affixes in Mythic+ is a crappy way to make dungeons seem different.
4. Purple gear means nothing.
I rerolled from my ret pally for the first time since tbc. theyre in a pitiful state right now.

typically paladin has been either good or fun or some combination of both and thats what kept me playing it. now theyre neither and i find no enjoyment in my ret. i rerolled havoc after our first raid week and have been given 0 reasons to regret the decision, it's fun, it does almost everything better than ret.

i honestly miss wod era ret. thats when ret was the most fun to me. having empowered divine storm, divine purpose, and final verdict procs/buffs to juggle made the spec incredibly dynamic and good players really outshined the rest.

i desperately want ret class design to go back to the wod era of thinking. i hate blade of justice, i miss exorcism, i miss the old hammer of wrath, i miss the old divine storm, you know, the good divine storm, this one ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnJwIDU2UL8 )

im very unsatisfied with how ret went in legion and bfa. please hire me blizz, ill make ret great again
All I'd like to say as a warrior is remember 31/20 build? Even as Arms we used to have so much utility be it PVP or PVE, from sunder armor (yes this was used in PVP too), to demo shout, shield wall, spell reflect, retaliation, recklessness, stance dancing, intercept, etc
I do agree completely with what is said in this thread expect one thing. Changing the classes right now doesn't fix the end-game "content" in bfa as it is. It would still be boring, ie world quests ala legion 2.0. IE's are awful, war front is meh.

It's the same thing in lotro, the classes are abysmal but even tho they're bad you stick with a game as long you enjoy it. That isn't the case with bfa for me right now. Even if they magically fixed the classes and removed the GCD changes, then what? It's still bfa...
I really enjoyed playing my aff lock in legion, but didnt even recognize him in BFA.
Iconic Drain Soul being removed was a deal breaker, but there were many straws on the camel's back.

So now I play a bm hunter and although my guild did heroic uldir and I got ahead of the curve, the trinkets in that dungeon are not as good as 355 dmf trinkets. We finally killed Ghunn heroic and no one wanted any of the loot.

That, to me is a huge problem. I have a 380 gun, but it wouldnt matter if it was 400.
I feel nerfed. In legion we had legendaries items, tier sets, and artifact weapons. Losing all of that for !@#$ty azurite stuff no one wants is a huge nerf.

Yeah we level from 110-120 and we get nada. We get to BFA and we get nada. failed expansion. And lol at horde city where you need a flight path to get around.

And lol at having cooking trainer in seal(horde) and no npc to sell cooking supplies anywhere close(have to take a flight).

poorly designed pos expansion. Ive played and scrapped a ton and still dont have enough expulsion to make follower equipment that allegedly brings back azurite.

But meanwhile i have 100's of the purple crap you get from raid bosses which I should be able to use in place of expulsion but i cant. I dont even get me started on island mission doubloons and how utterly useless they are.

Some of our guild's best players have quit, others just log on to raid, but we get fewer and fewer at raids every week(:

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