Told to F off because of Raider i.o

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So..what you're saying is...you want to be accepted into content based on your completion of completely different content? That doesn't make any sense.
11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
370 tank, guild leader of an 8/8H AOTC completed in September and I've successfully completed +8 M+ keys within the time-frame (I do them once a week for loot or 4 times for the weekly because M+'s are terrible "content") and apparently i have a raider i.o of 412.

Me: ?
Him: You have a terrible io
Me: You're determining my skill level from an add-on although I am AOTC with multiple heroic kills?
Him: yes, now f off scrub
ignored

Please remove this garbage from the game.

I'll be honest and say I use it for when I need to pug for Heroic Uldir just to see an individuals experience in both normal and heroic before deciding to invite the person, but I don't look at their score and tell them to F off.

If I've pretty much completed this patch's content other than Myhthic Uldir, so what in the actual !@#$ do people want for their groups?

sorry you can't come to my son's pool party because you're not Michael Phelps.

Edit: This thread only reinforces evidence the level of toxicity this add-on brings forth and I don't really want to feed trolls by responding.

So the only thing I'll say is that Raider io is not a determining factor of skill and never will. It creates a toxic atmosphere in custom queues that's unhealthy for the game.
It's not about entitlement or expectation. If you don't want an individual in your group, don't be immediately rude to that person with a condescending/belligerent response.

Edit 2:
The person who I'm referring to in the post, I was able to just search him and he actually has a lower i.o than me.
Toxicity is often also hypocrisy.


No one is obligated to take you in their runs.

Prove you can do the content, not that you can do some other content. Several dungeons/affix combos are far harder or require completely different play then easy mode Heroic Uldir first tier raid.
11/14/2018 04:53 AMPosted by Seelnay
11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Bodywrecker

Edit 2:
The person who I'm referring to in the post, I was able to just search him and he actually has a lower i.o than me.
Toxicity is often also hypocrisy.


I have been saying this for a month now.

Raider.io to validate skill level is false.

On Monday night I did a Waycrest+8 just about to 2 chest it and all of a sudden we are on the last boss and the Monk tank quits because the dps didnt want to/know how to do the mechanic of the fight. What a waste of our time because the tank is more worried about his pokemon score than helping the group he was invited too.

Raider.io has ruin M+ for many of us because of the toxicity that comes from leaderboards.

I stopped playing League to start playing league in M+

WTF


There is absolutely no way they left for that reason because:

A: Score doesnt drop if you fail a run anymore so you made that scenario up without even knowing how it actually works

B: The last boss of Waycrest on any level is the easiest boss in the game, effectively a tank and spank. I have done the burning while tanking.

If it did actually happen which I in no way believe, it was more likely it had been such a drag he finally said screw it at the end. Seeing as your imaginary run mentions it was almost a 2 chest, that is unlikely as well.
Raid content is just as hard as mythic plus content. A lot of the same skills cross over.
- The ability to spot goo on the floor and move out of it.
- The ability to obey a mechanic
- The ability to work at a steady pace, raiders may not have a timer up on the screen but we only have so much given time to raid with.
- The ability to coordinate attacks
- The ability to find useful shortcuts
- The ability to mitigate damage
- The ability to time your cool downs correctly
- The ability to use kick on spells that are painful when cast
- The ability to take bosses down
- The ability to deal with HARD trash

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball! :P
Mythic plus people need to get over themselves if they think they have a "special" and "unique" skill base. Cause sadly your just doing what raiders do except you seem not to have the social skills to deal with more then 5 people at a time.
I've never had to deal with the problems of Raider.io excluding me from pug groups, thankfully I have a group of friends I run high keys with, but hearing about all this is pretty awful what a lot of players have to deal with. M+, imo, is one of the few pieces of content that are damn-near mandatory if you PvE and want to improve your character, so getting shafted constantly by a !@#$ty community must suck. I think if I was in that position I'd either stop doing M+ completely or want to quit the game.
11/14/2018 06:56 AMPosted by Ssaera
Seeing as your imaginary run mentions it was almost a 2 chest, that is unlikely as well.


I guess next time this happens i ll bring the recording of the tank raging quitting 2 twice during the run.

R.IO a tool for scrubs.

period.
I like his final answer to you! that's classic! LOL
11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
370 tank, guild leader of an 8/8H AOTC completed in September and I've successfully completed +8 M+ keys within the time-frame (I do them once a week for loot or 4 times for the weekly because M+'s are terrible "content") and apparently i have a raider i.o of 412.

Me: ?
Him: You have a terrible io
Me: You're determining my skill level from an add-on although I am AOTC with multiple heroic kills?
Him: yes, now f off scrub
ignored

Please remove this garbage from the game.

I'll be honest and say I use it for when I need to pug for Heroic Uldir just to see an individuals experience in both normal and heroic before deciding to invite the person, but I don't look at their score and tell them to F off.

If I've pretty much completed this patch's content other than Myhthic Uldir, so what in the actual !@#$ do people want for their groups?

sorry you can't come to my son's pool party because you're not Michael Phelps.

Edit: This thread only reinforces evidence the level of toxicity this add-on brings forth and I don't really want to feed trolls by responding.

So the only thing I'll say is that Raider io is not a determining factor of skill and never will. It creates a toxic atmosphere in custom queues that's unhealthy for the game.
It's not about entitlement or expectation. If you don't want an individual in your group, don't be immediately rude to that person with a condescending/belligerent response.

Edit 2:
The person who I'm referring to in the post, I was able to just search him and he actually has a lower i.o than me.
Toxicity is often also hypocrisy.


Almost none of your experience is relevant to running keys. The best way to run keys successfully is to practice running the same keys successfully. The easiest way to determine whether or not you've done this is your IO score. It certainly isn't full-proof, and lots of people misinterpret what the score itself actually means, but there is very little else to go by if you are stuck pugging.

And beyond that, getting rid of the addon won't fix the problem. People will always find some metric to use to ostensibly make their PUG run as painless as possible. Your problem is a social one, so use a social solution.

Why are you, guild leader of a heroic guild, pugging at all? You'll have way more fun with a regular guild group.
11/14/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Seelnay
11/14/2018 06:56 AMPosted by Ssaera
Seeing as your imaginary run mentions it was almost a 2 chest, that is unlikely as well.


I guess next time this happens i ll bring the recording of the tank raging quitting 2 twice during the run.

R.IO a tool for scrubs.

period.


Scrubs who get runs completed it would look like.
11/13/2018 01:45 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Just please be aware Blizzard didn't add "raiderio" so they can't remove it from the game. You should be commenting at or on that website's associated media if you are not satisfied with the product they are providing.


They can break its functionality , but they won't.
11/14/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Desombras
11/13/2018 01:45 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Just please be aware Blizzard didn't add "raiderio" so they can't remove it from the game. You should be commenting at or on that website's associated media if you are not satisfied with the product they are providing.


They can break its functionality , but they won't.


They are expanding its functionality actually. Its almost like being able to see what peoples progress is helps the game as a whole and the only ones against it dont want people seeing their inexperience.
11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
370 tank, guild leader of an 8/8H AOTC completed in September


None of this means anything to M+.

11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
I've successfully completed +8 M+ keys within the time


I'm guessing you were applying to a +10. Sounds like your experience level is more appropriate for +8s and +9s right now.

You should not whisper group leaders checking raider.io profiles, they can see your profile you do not need to pester them with whispers. Every third person is probably already whispering them something irrelevant like M taloc or linking their raider.io profile like we can't already see it.

11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
The person who I'm referring to in the post, I was able to just search him and he actually has a lower i.o than me.


Sounds like what you need to do is make your own group like he did and not come here and cry because he wouldn't accept you with inadequate credentials for his group.
11/13/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Nillah
Blizzard can get rid of raider i.o if they want, but they'll never get rid of toxic players.

They can't. Raider.io is purely information handler, which means that to break raider.io, you'd need to:

  • Prevent addons from seeing names of people in the queue. This is doable, but might break a lot of unintended addons that try to improve the group finder.
  • Prevent addons from seeing names of people in the group. This will legit break most addons that handle group content.
  • Prevent addons from seeing the names of people in whispers. This will pretty much break all chat addons.
  • Finally, prevent addons from reading the event log, or hiding player names from it, but that will break nearly every addon of relevance for raiding.


And even if they went and did all that, nothing prevents the player from simply typing the other's name in a little box to have it show up his info, like we currently do for WQ grouping. Raider.io is not like a lot of addons, it doesn't rely on the API to function, which makes it impossible for blizzard to just "get rid" of it.

The only way they'll kill raider.io is the same way they killed GearScore and oQueue: by making a replacement. Tbh, it'd not even be hard for them to code a replacement to .io. All we'd need to see is: character raid progress, account raid progress, character sum of best keys, account sum of best keys. That's it. Raider.io would still offer a more complete vision, but having this information directly available in-game means it'd simply not be worth the effort.
He's supposed to be in a 8/8H guild but has killed Mythrax and Ghuun once since the release of Uldir. He also has a Vanquished Tendril of Ghuun equipped which tells me he has no idea how to optimize his class or use raidbots.

Is this someone you want to bring to a +10?
M+ and Raiding are completely different scenarios lol.
So move on and find another group or make your own? Why do people let stupid, petty things like this bother them so much to feel the need to come post about it? There are plenty of solutions but people refuse to do them so, you get what you get.
11/14/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Voxplaga
So..what you're saying is...you want to be accepted into content based on your completion of completely different content? That doesn't make any sense.


The fact that the OP doesn't have any idea why his heroic raiding experience is irrelevant in m+ is a bigger red flag than his score.
Ok, resume avaliation:

You have AOTC, but that's 1 kill each for G'hun and Mythax. That kill is also two months old and it only happened once. Is this an alt? It looks bad enough for an alt, but it's even worse if that's your main. Raid experience doesn't translate into M+ experience, so the most we can gather from your raid experience is "has general idea about class and abilities". However, the best way to tell that is by having groups pre-approve of you, which is to say: groups let you stay with them for weeks on end. Only having one kill for G'hun and Mythrax is worse than having a 6/8H consistent experience, week in week out, because it suggests you either bought it or got carried in a group that's not even your own. Moreover, it seems you were only active for four weeks total when raid opened, after that your experience disappeared, so we can safely assume that for the past two months you are no longer a raider. I wouldn't expect someone to just drop after a 2-month leave time and perform correctly, but I also wouldn't invite that person over.

Now for your M+ history: the highest key you've done on time was a +6. I'm 354 and I've already done +8 on time. This is a really, really bad record for a 370 iLvl character, specially a tank. Jesus Christ is that a +8 SotS that's 80 minutes over the timer done just last week? That's a key broken by 200% !??!?

Last place to look is at WarcraftLogs, which puts you at 47.7 percentile considering only your best logs. That's just awful. Considering your best logs you're still green, not even blue, and that's just considering your best logs. You got below 30th percentile on G'hun and Mythrax, which makes the previous assessment correct (you were carried).

What I'd tell you to do to improve that: read up guides on your class. It's really easy to get high warcraftlogs scores as a tank, so you should learn your class better and raid again to have those logs up asap. After that, you should pick your own M+ key, make groups for it, and do them, one after the other. You're a tank. You can get a group going in no time. Trust me, I am also a tank, I know. Get the keys going, and keep going until they break, then keep going until they break again, and again, this will give you the experience you sorely need on M+ dungeons, experience you don't get by breaking one key a week. Don't just do the easy dungeons, do all of them, you'll learn a lot.

Most common mistakes made by raid people in M+:

  • Saving Cooldowns: This is not a raid. The trash matters. Unless it's Tyrannical week, you don't even need your CDs for the boss. And if it's Tyrannical week on a high key, the fight will go for so long that you will get your CDs either way. Use your CDs and use them often.
  • Saving Consumables: Lock stones and potions are both off GCD and also on separate CDs. As a tank you can also throw in a third Rejuv potion there. This is, again, not a raid, you'll get out of combat very often, so your consumables will always be ready to use. Use them.
  • Not knowing the layout: This hits particularly hard for tanks. Do you know which route gets exactly 100% progress in every M+ dungeon? You need to. Do you also know which packs to avoid on certain affixes? If you don't, you'll learn it the hard way (by dying).
  • Not knowing the fights: Do you know how to handle the big guys in Atal'dazar, literally the easiest dungeon we have this expansion? Do you know how they work? The fights in M+ are not just the bosses, specially outside of Tyrannical weeks. Do you know what every trash does? You need to, or you'll kill yourself or the group.
11/14/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Margirita
Raid content is just as hard as mythic plus content. A lot of the same skills cross over.
- The ability to spot goo on the floor and move out of it.
- The ability to obey a mechanic
- The ability to work at a steady pace, raiders may not have a timer up on the screen but we only have so much given time to raid with.
- The ability to coordinate attacks
- The ability to find useful shortcuts
- The ability to mitigate damage
- The ability to time your cool downs correctly
- The ability to use kick on spells that are painful when cast
- The ability to take bosses down
- The ability to deal with HARD trash

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball! :P
Mythic plus people need to get over themselves if they think they have a "special" and "unique" skill base. Cause sadly your just doing what raiders do except you seem not to have the social skills to deal with more then 5 people at a time.
I run both raids and M+.

I'm not the highest progression raider, AotC & 3/8 Mythic, but my parses on Heroic Uldir are mostly purple and orange, so I do ok.

I'm not the highest progression M+ runner, I'm only 834 io score, but generally I'm not screwing mechanics, pulling stupid, or holding my teams back in M+ either.

And you are right a lot of the skills cross over. Most of the people I regularly run with are very good in both environments.

But let's not forget, just like you need to learn and then execute certain mechanics in raids, the same applies to M+ and their various combinations of affixes. You need to learn the proper strategies on what trash to pull to get to 100% on the trash mobs without getting too far over, plus how to do it on teeming weeks. You need to learn where to skip with invis, or rogue mass stealth. You need to learn where to lust and sometimes depending on affix that's going to be certain trash packs and not the bosses. You need to learn the boss mechanics anyway. You need to learn them and execute differently if certain affixes come up in combination. You need to learn when to burn cooldowns and consumables. You are going to be burning cooldowns and consumables on trash packs, multiple times throughout the dungeon at challenging levels.

So if you have never done the dungeons before at a M+ level that's challenging for your performance and ilvl, then you have a lot to learn.

And that's why people use raider.io. Because raider.io isn't just trying to estimate your skill. It's estimating your experience running the dungeons.

And that's actually an important piece of information for anyone putting groups together to consider.
So you were declined or left waiting and your instant reaction was to whisper “?” like you deserved the group spot lmao.

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