Told to F off because of Raider i.o

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You don't have to be in a top 200 guild to get loot from raids.

Plenty of bad players got good loot from raids back when raids were the only way to get loot.

Or am I the only person here who still remembers 8 manning Rage Winterchill while the 17 people who couldn't move out of death and decay sat and watched for 10 minutes?


You could get loot. But to get the great loot, you would have to learn to be an asset to your team instead of a liability. I was a noob in Wrath and cleared raids. But I never touched Heroic. Nor was I even close to someone that did.


Well I was GM of a guild in wrath and we killed every boss in the expansion bar heroic lich king and I can tell you right now there were quite a few people in those raids who I wouldn't bring to a M+10. And those people had the same ilvl as the actual good players in the guild who were contributing most to boss kills.

This was not really an uncommon experience, raids back in those days were really not that hard, certainly nowhere near the difficulty of current mythic raids. ilvl was more a reflection of your ability to turn up to raids regularly, since most guilds used DKP/EPGP for loot so higher attendance = better loot.

There was also no scaling with players, so you you were better off bringing 25 people even if 7 of them were basically warm bodies. That situation was even more magnified in Vanilla with 40 man raids, probably 25 of them did basically nothing at all.
...

You have to do them better than the other people on your server before the queue fills up. Which means people better than you, did them faster than you, at a higher level than you and filled the top 500 spots for that dungeon. That's how raider.io works.


And that is why raider.io is flawed people aren't being credited for their achievements according to their skill. Only people on the leader board get credited.

People like me that run mythic+ once a week for the chest and are making time aren't being shown they did the work. It's incredibly flawed.


Blizzard has acknowledged this and they're going to make the full m+ experience of a character available on the armory. I imagine raider.io will make changes once that data is available.
Just like *you* wouldn't invite anyone without AOTC for heroic uldir, they won't invite you because your io is too low. They want a smooth run. What goes around comes around.
11/13/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Kwashiorkor
Just like *you* wouldn't invite anyone without AOTC for heroic uldir, they won't invite you because your io is too low. They want a smooth run. What goes around comes around.


I always ran raids with my guild and so do most raiders. I don't think your comment is being directed at you think it is.
11/13/2018 04:54 PMPosted by Whiskeyjack
I looked up your raid experience. You've only killed H G'huun once. So even if I am the kind of idiot that thinks raid experience = m+ experience, I still wouldn't bring you to an m+.


These skulls in here a so thick I'm surprised there's a brain in there at all.
This is going to be my last reply on this because I see it's the same trolls/elitist needing to be fed and I need to get ready for bed.

You act like you just did godlike FBI work digging into encrypted data to find information about my experience when you can just click on my profile here on the forums.

If you did as much looking into it as you make it out to be, you'd see it was done on Horde, Area 52, September 27th.
Not long after I moved to Turalyon back to Alliance where I first started. Only a couple followed me back to Turalyon. Since then, I've been re developing a roster on a less populated and more familiar server. If you read the OP, i also said I used Raider IO to look at individual's experience and not their scores for the players we have to pug in to Heroic Uldir and I don't require a certain score or even AOTC at all.

It's very easy to just right click, copy URL, and see on the top right what they've done. Will I invite someone who has only completed LFR or 3/8 Normal? No. Will I invite them if they've completed Normal with, let's just say, 2/8 Heroic? Sure.

The main issues I have with Raider IO is that 1) It promotes and encourages elitist/toxic childish behavior 2) It doesn't represent a full amount of experience.
^_______
As I've read recently in another forum, raider I.O actually has an issue/bug misrepresenting some people's M+ progression and not updating, although the player has the in-game achievements to prove what IO doesn't show. So players who would legitimately have a high IO actually don't and regardless of their experience and skill, still get rejected because of said unfixed bug.

11/13/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Kwashiorkor
Just like *you* wouldn't invite anyone without AOTC for heroic uldir, they won't invite you because your io is too low. They want a smooth run. What goes around comes around.


This is absolutely not true by any means, and in fact I'm actively recruiting people with just 8/8N experience.

I can individually track skill and mistakes and how often they make a mistake through logs.
If there isn't proof of skill or improvements over a certain amount of time, that's when I would just bench them.
There's a criteria I have as well, but don't assume you know me.
11/13/2018 05:05 PMPosted by Baomin
11/13/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Kalorea
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Raider I.O isn't accurate. It says I haven't done a single timed mythic+ waycrest but I absolutely do remember doing them. More than a couple in fact!


You have to do them better than the other people on your server before the queue fills up. Which means people better than you, did them faster than you, at a higher level than you and filled the top 500 spots for that dungeon. That's how raider.io works.


Nah, Kalorea is right. Even if you don't make it to the leaderboards, you should still receive credit for doing the run. At the very least it should show up in the "Recent m+ runs" box on the side. I've had a +11 WM I 1-chested but I didn't receive credit for, despite it qualifying for the leaderboards.

However in OP's case, I find it really strange that he claims to have done multiple +8s on time and somehow none of them are listed.
11/13/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Kalorea
Raider I.O isn't accurate. It says I haven't done a single timed mythic+ waycrest but I absolutely do remember doing them. More than a couple in fact!


It only tracks what Blizzard does and that is only the top 500 per instance per server each week. So if your runs don't make it into that cut off, the Blizzard doesn't count it and raider.io won't know about it.

But the OP has several +4 and lower keys tracked in the last week. So clearly if he was actually running +8s often like he claimed they would show up.
These skulls in here a so thick I'm surprised there's a brain in there at all.
This is going to be my last reply on this because I see it's the same trolls/elitist needing to be fed and I need to get ready for bed.

You act like you just did godlike FBI work digging into encrypted data to find information about my experience when you can just click on my profile here on the forums.

If you did as much looking into it as you make it out to be, you'd see it was done on Horde, Area 52, September 27th.
Not long after I moved to Turalyon back to Alliance where I first started. Only a couple followed me back to Turalyon. Since then, I've been re developing a roster on a less populated and more familiar server. If you read the OP, i also said I used Raider IO to look at individual's experience and not their scores for the players we have to pug in to Heroic Uldir and I don't require a certain score or even AOTC at all.

It's very easy to just right click, copy URL, and see on the top right what they've done. Will I invite someone who has only completed LFR or 3/8 Normal? No. Will I invite them if they've completed Normal with, let's just say, 2/8 Heroic? Sure.

The main issues I have with Raider IO is that 1) It promotes and encourages elitist/toxic childish behavior 2) It doesn't represent a full amount of experience.
^_______
As I've read recently in another forum, raider I.O actually has an issue/bug misrepresenting some people's M+ progression and not updating, although the player has the in-game achievements to prove what IO doesn't show. So players who would legitimately have a high IO actually don't and regardless of their experience and skill, still get rejected because of said unfixed bug


Oy, you.

You don't have a Deafening Crash piece.
No Blockades.
You're using Punish+BsC+Devastator+Heavy Repercussions, instead of ItF+Unstoppable Force, Booming Voice, and Anger Management

You deserve to get denied. You're part of the reason prot warriors have such a terrible reputation right now
You have to do them better than the other people on your server before the queue fills up. Which means people better than you, did them faster than you, at a higher level than you and filled the top 500 spots for that dungeon. That's how raider.io works.


And that is why raider.io is flawed people aren't being credited for their achievements according to their skill. Only people on the leader board get credited.

People like me that run mythic+ once a week for the chest and are making time aren't being shown they did the work. It's incredibly flawed.


This is actually an important point, but the solution is to extend the leaderboard. It just doesn't follow that we should go back to ilvl, or whatever the anti-r.io crowd thinks would result in peace and love for all pugs. The solution there is better support for r.io, not abandoning it.

This is only going to get worse as time goes on, though, and it's easy to imagine a final patch content drought situation where the leaderboards are full of 15s on tuesday and it becomes impractical for anyone who hasn't already gotten their score to catch up (without bringing in people from lowpop servers, which is a dumb solution).
1 look at your trinkets and I would’ve declined you too if it makes you feel any better
11/13/2018 05:12 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
11/13/2018 04:54 PMPosted by Whiskeyjack
I looked up your raid experience. You've only killed H G'huun once. So even if I am the kind of idiot that thinks raid experience = m+ experience, I still wouldn't bring you to an m+.


These skulls in here a so thick I'm surprised there's a brain in there at all.
This is going to be my last reply on this because I see it's the same trolls/elitist needing to be fed and I need to get ready for bed.

You act like you just did godlike FBI work digging into encrypted data to find information about my experience when you can just click on my profile here on the forums.

If you did as much looking into it as you make it out to be, you'd see it was done on Horde, Area 52, September 27th.
Not long after I moved to Turalyon back to Alliance where I first started. Only a couple followed me back to Turalyon. Since then, I've been re developing a roster on a less populated and more familiar server. If you read the OP, i also said I used Raider IO to look at individual's experience and not their scores for the players we have to pug in to Heroic Uldir and I don't require a certain score or even AOTC at all.

It's very easy to just right click, copy URL, and see on the top right what they've done. Will I invite someone who has only completed LFR or 3/8 Normal? No. Will I invite them if they've completed Normal with, let's just say, 2/8 Heroic? Sure.

The main issues I have with Raider IO is that 1) It promotes and encourages elitist/toxic childish behavior 2) It doesn't represent a full amount of experience.
^_______
As I've read recently in another forum, raider I.O actually has an issue/bug misrepresenting some people's M+ progression and not updating, although the player has the in-game achievements to prove what IO doesn't show. So players who would legitimately have a high IO actually don't and regardless of their experience and skill, still get rejected because of said unfixed bug.

11/13/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Kwashiorkor
Just like *you* wouldn't invite anyone without AOTC for heroic uldir, they won't invite you because your io is too low. They want a smooth run. What goes around comes around.


This is absolutely not true by any means, and in fact I'm actively recruiting people with just 8/8N experience.

I can individually track skill and mistakes and how often they make a mistake through logs.
If there isn't proof of skill or improvements over a certain amount of time, that's when I would just bench them.
There's a criteria I have as well, but don't assume you know me.


I honestly don't care about the circumstances around why you have 1 G'Huun kill. To me they're just excuses.

But if we're going to use raiding as a metric for m+, then you still don't qualify. 1 G'huun kill is still 1 G'huun kill regardless of where you did it. You do not even have sufficient raiding experience in this tier but somehow we're supposed to use that as a guarantee for your supposed skill in an m+?
Raider.IO doesn't record every score. This makes it pretty much pointless.
That's unfortunate, however M+ is M+ and IO is something we use to see if someone is going to be worth taking or not on M+ nights.

However, as someone who has led a group if I decline someone in my queue and they actually whisper me as to why they got declined... it's sincerely annoying. If you get declined I would suggest just simply finding a different group to join.
11/13/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Whiskeyjack
I honestly don't care about the circumstances around why you have 1 G'Huun kill. To me they're just excuses.

But if we're going to use raiding as a metric for m+, then you still don't qualify. 1 G'huun kill is still 1 G'huun kill regardless of where you did it. You do not even have sufficient raiding experience in this tier but somehow we're supposed to use that as a guarantee for your supposed skill in an m+?


You have 0...

I just realized I'm replying to a level 110.

Silly you, why are you even here? You still haven't cut enough grass to buy BFA for yourself.

Anyways, good night. I'm going to go to sleep and try to forget the fact I spent 10 minutes even replying to you.
11/13/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
I just realized I'm replying to a level 110.

Silly you, why are you even here? You still haven't cut enough grass to buy BFA for yourself.

Anyways, good night. I'm going to go to sleep and try to forget the fact I spent 10 minutes even replying to you.


I'm replying to you. You're playing wrong, and going to suffer as a result. Rather than getting angry about pugging and toxicity, why not fix yourself first.
11/13/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
11/13/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Whiskeyjack
I honestly don't care about the circumstances around why you have 1 G'Huun kill. To me they're just excuses.

But if we're going to use raiding as a metric for m+, then you still don't qualify. 1 G'huun kill is still 1 G'huun kill regardless of where you did it. You do not even have sufficient raiding experience in this tier but somehow we're supposed to use that as a guarantee for your supposed skill in an m+?


You have 0...

I just realized I'm replying to a level 110.

Silly you, why are you even here? You still haven't cut enough grass to buy BFA for yourself.

Anyways, good night. I'm going to go to sleep and try to forget the fact I spent 10 minutes even replying to you.


One g'huun kill screams paid carry though
11/13/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Bodywrecker
370 tank, guild leader of an 8/8H AOTC completed in September and I've successfully completed +8 M+ keys within the time-frame (I do them once a week for loot or 4 times for the weekly because M+'s are terrible "content") and apparently i have a raider i.o of 412.

Me: ?
Him: You have a terrible io
Me: You're determining my skill level from an add-on although I am AOTC with multiple heroic kills?
Him: yes, now f off scrub
ignored

Please remove this garbage from the game.

I'll be honest and say I use it for when I need to pug for Heroic Uldir just to see an individuals experience in both normal and heroic before deciding to invite the person, but I don't look at their score and tell them to F off.

If I've pretty much completed this patch's content other than Myhthic Uldir, so what in the actual !@#$ do people want for their groups?

sorry you can't come to my son's pool party because you're not Michael Phelps.

Edit: This thread only reinforces evidence the level of toxicity this add-on brings forth and I don't really want to feed trolls by responding.

So the only thing I'll say is that Raider io is not a determining factor of skill and never will. It creates a toxic atmosphere in custom queues that's unhealthy for the game.
It's not about entitlement or expectation. If you don't want an individual in your group, don't be immediately rude to that person with a condescending/belligerent response.

Edit 2:
The person who I'm referring to in the post, I was able to just search him and he actually has a lower i.o than me.
Toxicity is often also hypocrisy.


Ya you pretty much got a taste of today's America of this generation. Don't expect much good behavior in future gaming. It's just going to get worst since some posters here get sensitive to your response to the person. Then again this is Blizzard after all and don't expect much out of this game especially from the players who play it and the community.
11/13/2018 01:45 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Just please be aware Blizzard didn't add "raiderio" so they can't remove it from the game. You should be commenting at or on that website's associated media if you are not satisfied with the product they are providing.

Easiest solution is to run your own key instead though.
I know it may sound unfair to be declined, especially if that conversation actually took place, but if you do start running your own key you will quickly see just how many people apply.
It will be dozens more than you can actually bring, so hopefully that will put it in perspective.

Either way, once you are more experienced with M+, I hope you also will have some perspective on why talking about Heroic raid progression isn't going to win you any favors.
The two are both a form of PVE, but that's where the similarities end, really.
Especially for tanks.

If you have any questions or need help with M+, please contact me privately.
I try to help any and all players looking to break into the scene, especially tanks as its my main role.

I'm fervently against RaiderIO's scoring system, but the one thing it does do well is determine if a person is wholly unqualified for the dungeon they are signing up for.
That doesn't mean you are physically incapable of doing the key. Just that you have yet to demonstrate that you can do so reliably.

Can't blizzard kill any addon they want? They have in the past. Change the API's it accesses or simply send a cease and decist letter to the maker. Either way = raider.io gone.

They did it recently with noobblocker.
11/13/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Valrayne
11/13/2018 01:45 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Just please be aware Blizzard didn't add "raiderio" so they can't remove it from the game. You should be commenting at or on that website's associated media if you are not satisfied with the product they are providing.

Easiest solution is to run your own key instead though.
I know it may sound unfair to be declined, especially if that conversation actually took place, but if you do start running your own key you will quickly see just how many people apply.
It will be dozens more than you can actually bring, so hopefully that will put it in perspective.

Either way, once you are more experienced with M+, I hope you also will have some perspective on why talking about Heroic raid progression isn't going to win you any favors.
The two are both a form of PVE, but that's where the similarities end, really.
Especially for tanks.

If you have any questions or need help with M+, please contact me privately.
I try to help any and all players looking to break into the scene, especially tanks as its my main role.

I'm fervently against RaiderIO's scoring system, but the one thing it does do well is determine if a person is wholly unqualified for the dungeon they are signing up for.
That doesn't mean you are physically incapable of doing the key. Just that you have yet to demonstrate that you can do so reliably.

Can't blizzard kill any addon they want? They have in the past. Change the API's it accesses or simply send a cease and decist letter to the maker. Either way = raider.io gone.

They did it recently with noobblocker.


they could turn off the blizzard site that shows the data and effectively kill it.

but they wont. in fact they are going to improve it to show all your runs instead of just the top 500 runs per realm.
They did it recently with noobblocker.


Not the same thing, One gathers data, the other was directly against Blizzards own gameplay design.

I am VERY pleased to hear that thing got broken.

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