Forsaken Lore makes NO SENSE

General Discussion
Are they mind controlled or not?

Instances that have caused me great confusion.

Post Cataclysm quests
Archmage Ataeric- Stoic Archmage hates the undead yells for Alliance Victory two seconds after being revived is okay with fighting the Alliance and joining the forsaken ranks.

Lord Godfrey- Politician, clearly has free will throughout his transformation debatably more cruel.

Galen Trollbane- Clearly not mindcontrolled and like Lord Godgrey betrayed Sylvanas.
There are more examples in the next patch (8.1) that cause even more confusion! Why this is alarming to me is does this mean the playable character forsaken are mindcontrolled? Is there any rules of this?
11/13/2018 04:21 PMPosted by Divium
Are they mind controlled or not?
Either they aren't and Blizz is just really bad at showing that in some situations (Andorhal, for example) or it's hit or miss. It could be that it's a situation where she can choose to control those that are weak willed but those that have a strong will can't be controlled.

11/13/2018 04:21 PMPosted by Divium
Why this is alarming to me is does this mean the playable character forsaken are mindcontrolled?
Player forsaken aren't. Forsaken characters made before Cata gained their will along with the rest when the Lich King lost power. Those that were made after Cata are very clearly given an option to do as they wish.
Not even the writers know.

The idea that you will automatically join the people who kill you just because they gave you life again is pretty stupid.
Lore makes NO SENSE
What's new?
I believe the official Blizzard response is to blow a raspberry and wiggle your fingers in the face of the person that asked the question.

If they don't understand it after that you ban them for harassment.
I think it has to do with the will of the individual. Like you might be strongly for the Alliance in life, but after being raised into undeath, you realize there is nothing more to gain from the living and so you choose to ally with the only group capable of understanding you: your fellow undead.

I imagine one's emotions are also severely affected and I think I read somewhere that undead are compelled to inflict suffering on others regularly or they risk going insane.

So it's probably a combination of factors that decide if a raised Forsaken will join their cause, go insane, or become independent.
I'm pretty sure that the Forsaken starting zone answered this by saying that all of the new Forsaken are given the option of killing themselves again if they have a problem with undeath, which more or less weeds out the rebels. I imagine with the examples you listed it was because they were high value targets that weren't given a choice and rebelled accordingly.
Welcome to Fantasy games, where sense and logic are not welcome here.
What you are missing is Sylvanas continues to research Undeath. So while the undead have to agree to join the Forsaken. Sylvanas seems to be weaponizing undeath.
11/13/2018 06:02 PMPosted by Ashan
you realize there is nothing more to gain from the living and so you choose to ally with the only group capable of understanding you: your fellow undead.


This is flat out untrue. We have Alliance death knights who are accepted, maybe not accepted by civilians but the leaders of the Alliance know our worth.
11/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Juxu
I'm pretty sure that the Forsaken starting zone answered this by saying that all of the new Forsaken are given the option of killing themselves again if they have a problem with undeath, which more or less weeds out the rebels. I imagine with the examples you listed it was because they were high value targets that weren't given a choice and rebelled accordingly.


This also doesn't explain why they don't just pretend to agree to serve Sylvanas and instead turning and fleeing when they get the first chance they can.
"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
Read Before the Storm, unfortunately blizzard has made it so that you have to read content outside the game to understand what is going on in game.
They are when it's convenient and they aren't when it isn't.
11/13/2018 07:17 PMPosted by Spellbinder
Read Before the Storm, unfortunately blizzard has made it so that you have to read content outside the game to understand what is going on in game.


This

Also in terms of overall, its both. Some undead are of free-will. Valkyr call out to the soul and offer it revival, the soul can choose to be revived. 8.1 shows us that in some cases this can be forced. 8.1 Also shows us that Sylvanas can also use mind control (specifically on Derek Proudmore).

At this point they need more clarification and to be more careful. For Derek its very clearly stated that he chose nothing and that Sylvanas will mind meddle him to turn him into an assassin.
For Delaryn and Sira it's really different and unclear which I wish they would further explain. Last i checked, at the end of the Horde intro to Darkshore; undead Sira tells the Horde player something along the lines of "We all have reasons for choosing undeath, but now is not the time to discuss it."

For the future, I hope the devs are more conscious because there could be really good story line about motives for choosing undeath and implications of forcing undeath. Right now, the writing just isn't clear enough.
They are mind controlled by Sylvanas. She just told them they had free will. It was really only as free as she let it be.
11/13/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Gulrum
They are mind controlled by Sylvanas. She just told them they had free will. It was really only as free as she let it be.


Yup. Free will to do as they please. Just if it doesnt fall inline with what she wants, you get killed.
11/13/2018 07:15 PMPosted by Kalorea
11/13/2018 06:02 PMPosted by Ashan
you realize there is nothing more to gain from the living and so you choose to ally with the only group capable of understanding you: your fellow undead.


This is flat out untrue. We have Alliance death knights who are accepted, maybe not accepted by civilians but the leaders of the Alliance know our worth.


The Ebon death knights are a little different because they still retain their original racial form and their situation was different when they broke free of the Lich King's control. I mostly just meant the Forsaken. But DKs already had their own group to be accepted by anyway, so they wouldn't all need to turn to the Forsaken.
It's a mixed bag. And it's a bag filled with various types of scorpions, some of which are venomous, all of which will sting you regardless.

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